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glad to see you coming around to the fact that vegan diets might be bad for some people.
I don't understand why both you and the guy the video equate all people on omnivorous diets to the paleo diet. Most people who are omnivorous eat nothing like the paleo diet, they eat like 300g of carbs a day and a lot of processed foods, yet you act like these studies some how apply to paleo folks?? That's just ridiculous.. Vegans tend to eat a lot less processed foods, less soda, sugar, and in fact, vegans and paleos tend to shop at the same grocery stores!!! Paleos and vegans have more in common with their diet than paleos and most omnivores. Most omnivorous people shop at Walmart, major chain grocery stores and COSTCO.
It's probably one of the most intellectually dishonest comparisons a person can make..
Last edited by dannno; 09-21-2016 at 10:30 AM.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
the dude in the video is a guy named "Vegan Gains".. he is completely intellectually dishonest in my opinion.. over and above that hes a total a.sshole as well... just a pompous prick who thinks he knows it all.. meanwhile hes a spoiled brat who has rich parents and never has to work... life is a complete party for the guy and he even had a kid out of wedlock and kicked the kid and mother to the curb because he didnt want to be bothered... his opinions mean nothingOriginally Posted by dannno
Joe Rogan and paleo folks think vegetables rock... That's pretty much what most paleos eat as a staple other than some meat and a little fruit - so the fact that they have a picture of Joe Rogan crying about vegetables is really ludicrous to me. It just shows how little they care to know about the diets they are arguing against.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
I think the guy with the spiderman shirt on won that one, boys.
I call him Vegan Stains. He filmed his grandfather dying of a heart attack and would have put it on YouTube to show "what happens when you eat meat" until his family talked him out of it.
I am the spoon.
wow... the dude totally has mental issues... thats crazy... anybody who uses this guy for their arguments obviously has something wrong with them too.
Agreed considering they're using the arguments of someone who clearly is not a rational human being.
I am the spoon.
Your logical fallacy is: >click here <
If you (as I do) prefer listening to someone who isn't a jerk: >click here<
“I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”
― Henry David Thoreau
You low carb fanatics seem to think all studies that show negative effects of carbs are studies on low fat dieters.
Why do a lot of Paleo dieters, like you and Suzanimal, try to downplay the amount of meat the modern Paleo diet recommends? It says MEAT is your staple, not vegetables!!!
By volume or calories? And why is that?
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
i disagree that its a fallacy... figures dont lie but liars sure can figure... and vegan stains is not somebody i would trust more than I could throw them
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Chester Copperpot again.
I am the spoon.
I haven't eaten any meat since Saturday, lol.
http://robbwolf.com/2015/03/05/paleo...n-its-healthy/And, (no, I’m not done), there is a point at which CALORIES DO COUNT. NO you cannot have 2 cups of Bulletproof coffee (with 2-3 T each of grassfed butter and MCT oil), a pound of bacon, 3 cups of nuts and a 24 ounce ribeye as part of your daily diet (unless you are training like an animal or are a genetic freak) and expect to get lean. Yes, it’s all paleo – but there is a BREAKING POINT!!
As individuals and as a community we need to STOP THE INSANITY! We need to come back to basics – you know, REAL FOOD. Everyone goes on and on about how the cavemen weren’t cooking grains and beans and they likely weren’t – but they also weren’t making flour out of almonds (or coconuts), extracting sugar from coconuts, tapping trees for maple syrup or drying fruit so they could use it to bake or make ‘cave ketchup’. BASICS – lean or grassfed meats, lots of non-starchy veggies, moderate amounts of healthy fats and some fresh fruit and starchy roots and tubers. It’s not complicated and you don’t need another damn recipe for paleo muffins or cookies – these are not everyday foods!
..
Here’s a few 2-second takeaways:
Just because the label or a recipe says “Paleo” or a website tells you a certain food is paleo – it doesn’t mean it’s healthy to eat all the time or in large amounts.
If you’re not seeing the results you’re looking for – go back to the basics. EAT REAL, WHOLE FOODS.
Even if a food is paleo friendly it doesn’t give you a license to eat like an @sshole. (case in point: cups of nuts, massive steaks, pounds of bacon, etc.)
Paleo is not a religion and there is room for treats and non-paleo fare – just not in excess.
ENJOY EVERY SINGLE BITE of everything you eat and eat mindfully.
http://robbwolf.com/2016/07/21/ask-a...ke-vegetables/For my first ‘column’ I’m going to address a topic that comes up a lot more frequently than I’d like it to – it’s about vegetables – and I’m not referring to corn, potatoes or anything drowning in Ranch dressing or cheese sauce… It’s the non-starchy colorful varieties that seem to be the most frequently cited when this ‘issue’ ‘crops’ up. If you haven’t already guessed where this is going, let me help you out…
There are a WHOLE LOT of people that “don’t like vegetables”. I’m not talking about not liking one or two vegetables – but rather, “all vegetables” – well, except for potatoes, corn and sometimes some of the other starchies (sweet potatoes, parsnips, winter squash, etc.). But at the mention spinach, broccoli or even green beans and these veggie haters think you’re from the devil. It’s insane. These are usually the same people that think that being healthy and/or eating Paleo means all meat, fat and bacon (because in their world’s bacon is its own food group…). Also, these folks often come to me wondering why they aren’t seeing results (feeling better, energy improvements, weight loss, etc.). AND every damn time I tell them that they’re doing it wrong – I am met with fierce opposition and an directed to or told about some website that they got their expert information from. Seriously internet, you’re KILLING me!!
http://robbwolf.com/2016/01/28/all-f...he-short-list/Meat Me Outside… Yes, I know, steak is awesome, bacon’s delicious and chicken is pretty ‘clucking’ tasty too; BUT as is true with most things in life – too much of a good thing is still TOO MUCH! One of the biggest mistakes I see folks make – they go whole “hog” for meat and fat but completely neglect vegetables and really anything other than meat and fat.
If your plate is made up of primarily protein and fat with a token broccoli spear or two, you’re doing it wrong. Seriously folks, you don’t need a pound of meat, eight strips of bacon and an entire avocado at each meal. Vegetables first! (and I’m not talking about sweet potatoes, yams, potatoes, parsnips or the other starchy stuff – but, like, REAL vegetables – think green…). Consuming copious amounts of meat and fat does not make you ‘better at paleo’. It does make you constipated, nutrient deficient and in a lot of cases, less than lean and/or healthy.
Does that have Carbs?!?! The “carb”nundrum is something that many people struggle with. I like to say that there’s two classes of paleo eaters – there’s the group that’s deathly afraid of carbs and the group that has orange-tinted skin because of all the sweet potatoes, yams and butternut squash they’re pounding. Folks, this may be hard to believe but, there is a happy medium when it comes to the “C”-word.
Contrary to what some say, not all of us need to be in ketosis; in fact that may be the worst thing some of us can do. That being said, there’s no reason to be eating starches and sugar (think Paleo bars, cookies, breads, fruit, honey, etc. – more on this stuff to come…) 24/7 either and this is especially true if you’re not active, trying to lean out or lose weight or have issues with blood sugar regulation. The exact balance is going to look a little different for everyone, but for a majority of us a zero carb approach isn’t the answer nor is consuming a significant amount of carbs (yes, even sweet potatoes) at every meal. Balance, people, BALANCE!!! (And LOTS of non-starchy vegetables!!!)
One of the main criticisms of the Paleo diet is that it’s rich in meat. But while the general media would have everyone believe that we’re all tearing into a pile of rib-eye steaks and pork chops on our lunch break, the truth about Paleo is actually very different.
Get ready for this.
The Paleo diet is actually a plant based diet, not a meat-based one.
It’s true that good quality meat, fish and seafood are all recommended on Paleo for their vitamins, minerals, and all-round nutrient density, but experts agree that many of us should be putting vegetables in the spotlight a bit more. And there are lots of reasons why.
Take Terry Wahls, a doctor who has used her version of a Paleo-based diet (with lots of veggies, I might add) to ease her symptoms of MS. She’s gone from being wheelchair-bound to doing an 18-mile bike tour – an incredible healing journey. She suggests in The Wahls Protocol that for optimum healing, we should be eating around nine cups – yep, that’s really nine cups – of different vegetables every day. And it’s important to mix them up – we should be eating a mixture of sulphurous (broccoli, cauliflower, onions, garlic), leafy (kale, lettuce, spinach) and colourful veg (beetroots, carrots, squash). As well as feeding the body with essential nutrients like calcium, potassium, magnesium, and folate, your gut microbes will love you for it, too – research suggests they’re responsible for protecting against infections and contributing towards a healthy immune system. And they thrive on a diet rich in veggies.
Sarah Ballantyne, author of The Paleo Approach and the website The Paleo Mom also emphasises the need for variety in the vegetables on our plates. She tells us to ‘eat from the rainbow’ – and as she put it in a blog post, “the more variety you eat the better.”
Other Paleo peeps, including Loren Cordain, Chris Kresser, and Robb Wolf have all written about including lots of veggies in your diet to help ward off things like obesity, stroke, high blood pressure, and even slow the signs of ageing. Sounds good, right?
http://primaleye.uk/are-you-eating-e...bles-on-paleo/
I'm thinking about going vegan (diet wise) for 6 months just to do it. I don't really care about taking supplements. I eat em like candy already anyway. Heh. I wasn't going to say anything but since the topic is popular around here these days.
Thing is, I like some inch thick porterhouse now. After I get healed up, I'm gonna try it, though.I'm not gonna be all political about it. I'm just gonna do it to see. I'm moving closer to 50 every day anyway. What's to lose.
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-21-2016 at 10:01 PM.
let us know how you make out... im always interested in hearing about real world experiences from rational people like you.
Rare roast beast here last night..........
Good luck, NC! Buy yourself some good cookbooks. I highly recommend Thug Kitchen. They're vegan and fun.I bought my son the cookbooks last year and we've really liked all the recipes in them. Also, they use normal ingredients you can easily find. I like the original best but my son prefers Party Grub.
This is the best tomato soup ever. I think it's the first thing we made from the books and I make it a lot in the winter.
http://www.thugkitchen.com/roasted_tomato_soupROASTED TOMATO SOUP
1 28 ounce can of plain, peeled whole tomatoes (get one that is low on sodium, check that motherfucking label)
3 teaspoons of olive oil
4-5 cloves of garlic (still in their skin)
1 medium russet potato
1/2 a small head of cauliflower (about 1/3 pounds)
1/2 a medium yellow onion
1 tablespoon of diced fresh rosemary (if you need to use dried, use only 1 teaspoon)
3/4 teaspoon dried thyme
2 1/2-3 cups vegetable broth
salt and pepper to taste
Warm up your oven to 325 degrees and grab a rimmed baking sheet or big ass roasting pan. Pour 1 of the teaspoons of oil on the baking sheet and smear it around evenly to make sure nothing is going to $#@!ing stick. Drain the tomatoes but save the juice in a separate glass, we’ll use that $#@! in a little bit. Slice the tomatoes in half lengthwise and place them cut side up on the baking sheet. Try to keep about 1/3 of the sheet empty for future veggies. Roll the cloves of garlic in the oil on the pan, and place them near the tomatoes. We want to leave the skin on the garlic so those little bastards roast and get all sweet. Add a small pinch of salt over the tomatoes and roast all that in the oven for 30 minutes. If you can’t remember to check the clock, set a timer. If you can’t do either then why the $#@! are you in the kitchen with sharp objects?
While the tomatoes are roasting, skin the potato and chop it, the cauliflower, and onion up into dime-sized pieces. You want to end up with around 1 cup of chopped potato, 1 1/4 cup chopped cauliflower, and 1 cup chopped onion. Toss them all together in a bowl with the remaining oil, rosemary, thyme, and a small pinch of salt and pepper. After the tomatoes have roasted for 30 minutes, add the seasoned vegetable mixture to the pan, spread it out as much as possible, and roast all that $#@! for another 30-40 minutes. You just want to make sure the potato and cauliflower are tender and a little golden in some spots. Take the pan out of the oven and let it cool for a couple minutes. Squeeze the garlic out of its skin; it should pop right out and smell $#@!ing dope. Add the rest of the $#@! from the baking sheet and the roasted garlic to a blender and pour in the broth. Run it on high until the soup looks smooth. Pour all that into a pot on the stove, warm it over a low heat, and add the remaining tomato juice you saved from the can (it should be around 1/2 a cup). If you want a thinner soup, add the extra half cup of broth but I like it thick. Taste and add more salt, pepper, or herbs to get it right for you. Serve hot with some bread so you can mop your bowl clean when your spoon becomes $#@!ing useless.
Makes enough for 4 mugs or 2 regular bowls
oh man youre reminding me of a french dip sandwich i got from Houlihans the other day.. it was the thinnest, moist, tender, slightly rare roast beef... Real easy to eat, except I took one bite and didnt eat anymore because I still couldnt taste anything from it... but boy what id give to taste a good roast beef sandwich.. yumRare roast beast here last night..........
Paleo & Primal diets says eat mostly meat to get bulk of you your calories. Why is that? Well you got to get your calories from somewhere and vegetables don't provide enough per volume. You'd have to eat 37 heads of green leaf lettuce to get 2000 calories.
That's not VG. You're thinking of this bald guy.
No, no, no, wait a minute you just contradicted yourself.. Or you're being purposely deceptive. If you read Suz's post on the last page you would know that many paleo advocates say to eat mostly non-starchy vegetables, some fruit and tubers - in fact they even specifically stated that the paleo diet IS, or should be, a plant-based diet - plants should be the bulk of the diet by volume. So if you look at plate of food, the plate will be filled with mostly vegetables, some fruit and maybe some tubers. Then there will be some meat. Yes, the bulk of the macro nutrients will come from the meat, because meat by nature is nutrient dense - but the vegetables will contain important micro nutrients not found in meat and are an important part of the diet.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
True and false. The original paleo diet (the one actually eaten back in the paleo days) was plant-based because we ate mostly fruit back then (we were frugivores).
But the modern day "Paleo" and "Primal" diet recommends eating animal products as your staple, making them a meat-based diet.
Anything can sound good!"Other Paleo peeps, including Loren Cordain, Chris Kresser, and Robb Wolf have all written about including lots of veggies in your diet to help ward off things like obesity, stroke, high blood pressure, and even slow the signs of ageing. Sounds good, right?"
Last edited by farreri; 09-22-2016 at 12:37 PM.
And that's what I'm saying, the modern Paleo & Primal diets are a meat-based diet. Their words, not mine.
Will you please read somebody else's $#@!ing post for a change instead of just yammering on?
Good God. You are the most frustrating person in the world to debate with.
It literally says on the last page that the paleo diet is a PLANT BASED DIET. Most paleo advocates agree with this. The bulk of what goes into your mouth are PLANTS. The bulk of your calories will come from meat, because meat is more nutrient dense. That isn't a bad thing. The point is you keep saying paleo is a meat based diet when the bulk of what you eat, by volume is actually plants. So you are being a deceptive [mods won't let me say it] when you say paleo is a meat based diet.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
My recommendations would be follow the lower-fat vegan diets, like the Starch Solution diet, and stay away from the package vegan meat & cheese alternatives as they are full of processed stuff and oils. Be sure to eat enough, or you'll be hungry all the time from the lack of calories and you'll fall off the wagon. Take B12 of course (500-1000 mcg a day) and especially take Vitamin D3 (at least 2,000 IU a day average) as your D levels will drop quickly if you're not getting enough sun or taking a D3 supplement.
FWIW, you're probably going to need to supplement protein if you're significantly active. The best vegan protein I've used is pea protein. Avoid soy like the plague unless you can be sure it's non-GMO and fermented (as Asian folks use it traditionally) and that you don't have an allergy/sensitivity to it. Soy's a common allergy. Also, peanuts are a great source of protein, in my experience. You just have to be sure to get some that aren't loaded with preservatives and such. :P(if you're "lacto-ovo", eggs and whey are great too.)
The modern Paleo & Primal diets are meat-based diets:
"Dr. Cordain published what he dubbed Humanity’s Evolutionary Food Pyramid (aka The Paleo Diet Food Pyramid)"
http://thepaleodiet.com/paleo-diet-food-pyramid/
Introducing the New Primal Blueprint Food Pyramid, By Mark Sisson
"The most noticeable change is making meat/fish/fowl/eggs, rather than produce, the base. It’s actually not a huge thematic change, as I’ve always suggested that animal products comprise the bulk of calories, but now it’s clear."
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/intro...-food-pyramid/
Last edited by farreri; 09-22-2016 at 01:02 PM.
Yeah I can't imagine going 6 months vegan without supplementing and not feeling any I'll effects. Great advice here HB. GMO soy contains estrogen mimickers.
I am the spoon.
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