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Thread: Forget Immigration. It's Big Government Hispanic Voters Want

  1. #1

    Forget Immigration. It's Big Government Hispanic Voters Want

    If we are to believe the polls, Hispanic voters love big government. Just adore it. They want more of it. Lots more. And they will vote to make that happen.

    Pundits are currently tying themselves into knots trying to figure out how the presidential candidates' positions on immigration will impact their popularity with Hispanic voters.

    The answer? Who cares? What drives Hispanic voters is simple, and it was captured with shocking clarity by a Pew Hispanic Center poll in April.

    A mind-blowing 75 percent of Hispanics tell Pew they want bigger government with more services. Contrast that with just 41 percent of the American public that says it wants bigger government with more services. (Some 45 percent of the general American population wants smaller government with fewer services. For Hispanics, it's 19 percent.)
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  3. #2
    Most people look to government for the answer.

  4. #3
    The big government is happy to oblige.

  5. #4
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  6. #5
    The trick, I am convinced, is to change the discussion from, "what government does for you" to "what government does to you".

    As long as we're arguing the former and not the latter, we will always lose. Regardless of which racial demographic you choose.

    (socio-economic factors play a much larger role than race when determining where a majority will land. But yes, some peoples share more of those socio-economic factors than others.)
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  7. #6
    The question I have to those that this bothers, is what are you going to do about it? Win more hearts and minds in general, or collectivize and complain?

  8. #7
    Why is Trump the least popular Republican among Hispanics? He wants to grow government more than any of the others.
    Stop believing stupid things

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    Why is Trump the least popular Republican among Hispanics? He wants to grow government more than any of the others.
    because he said 'mean' things about their transients.
    Last edited by AuH20; 08-30-2016 at 09:52 AM.



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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    The trick, I am convinced, is to change the discussion from, "what government does for you" to "what government does to you".

    As long as we're arguing the former and not the latter, we will always lose. Regardless of which racial demographic you choose.

    (socio-economic factors play a much larger role than race when determining where a majority will land. But yes, some peoples share more of those socio-economic factors than others.)
    This si the key. Look, it shouldn't be hard to actually turn Mexicans (and other Hispanics) into fans of smaller governments. They're already fleeing countries that have been crippled by big government socialism. You just have to help them see that. Help them see the violence done to their families and communities by the government, there and here. If you do that, you'll win converts by the number.

    As it is, all people like LibertyEagle suggest doing is violating the basic human right of movement across unowned land, investing the government with unconstitutional powers, expand protectionism and limit the free market, destroying families, and enlarging the state's ability to carry out violence against peaceful people for victimless crimes. That isn't just unlibertarian and collectivist, it is down right fascistic. And anyone that thinks that somehow protects liberty or makes them better than the statists we all detest, is delusional.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    because he said 'mean' things about their transients.
    People have natural human rights to be transients.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    People have natural human rights to be transients.
    So long as you pay your club dues.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  14. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    People have natural human rights to be transients.
    Purge their benefits and the concept of birthright citizenship & then I will agree. Until then, the door should be closed.

  15. #13
    There's the group LIBRE that tries to spread free market principles to the hispanic community

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    As it is, all people like LibertyEagle suggest doing is violating the basic human right of movement across unowned land, investing the government with unconstitutional powers, expand protectionism and limit the free market, destroying families, and enlarging the state's ability to carry out violence against peaceful people for victimless crimes. That isn't just unlibertarian and collectivist, it is down right fascistic. And anyone that thinks that somehow protects liberty or makes them better than the statists we all detest, is delusional.


    Does the globalist need a safe space?
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

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  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Purge their benefits and the concept of birthright citizenship & then I will agree. Until then, the door should be closed.
    That isn't how freedom works. Liberty comes before the state, before the government. You have no right to dictate the beliefs of others. The fact that you want to force others to live and think like you makes you a tyrant.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post


    Does the globalist need a safe space?
    I noticed you have no really come back to what I said.

    Also, your accusation is fallacious. Imaging that the only two choices are slavery to the nation or slavery to the superstate is a false dichotomy. Liberty, as always, is the answer.

    And it has nothing to do with globalism. Indeed, for the first 100 years of the existence of the USA it had no border restrictions and open immigration and it was hardly a globalist conspiracy.

    But if you're arguing which is more important, human liberty or you using the violence of the state to create a "safe" space for your beliefs because you are so damn afraid that they won't work and the only way they will survive is by forcing people to comply with them, then liberty wins every time.

    That is the ultimate irony in your accusation. You are literally trying to create a space (a nation) to protect your beliefs (hence a "safe space") using the violece of the state to punish those who think and act differently than you.

    You're a Leftist.



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  20. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    That isn't how freedom works. Liberty comes before the state, before the government. You have no right to dictate the beliefs of others. The fact that you want to force others to live and think like you makes you a tyrant.
    Oh the irony. Yes, I'm the unreasonable one. That's me.



    See that burnt orange block that says '82%'? There lies the wave of freedom that's coming.
    Last edited by AuH20; 08-31-2016 at 12:19 PM.

  21. #18
    And Trump said he wants to expedite the process for millions of Hispanic voters to legally come to this country. Gotta love betrayal.
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  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    I noticed you have no really come back to what I said.

    Also, your accusation is fallacious. Imaging that the only two choices are slavery to the nation or slavery to the superstate is a false dichotomy. Liberty, as always, is the answer.

    And it has nothing to do with globalism. Indeed, for the first 100 years of the existence of the USA it had no border restrictions and open immigration and it was hardly a globalist conspiracy.

    But if you're arguing which is more important, human liberty or you using the violence of the state to create a "safe" space for your beliefs because you are so damn afraid that they won't work and the only way they will survive is by forcing people to comply with them, then liberty wins every time.

    That is the ultimate irony in your accusation. You are literally trying to create a space (a nation) to protect your beliefs (hence a "safe space") using the violece of the state to punish those who think and act differently than you.

    You're a Leftist.

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  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Oh the irony. Yes, I'm the unreasonable one. That's me.



    See that burnt orange block that says '82%'? There lies the wave of freedom that's coming.
    Trouble I'm having is seeing how you're any different. You're demanding big government military force and border violence to violate the basic human rights of people and destroy their families over a victim less crime. No matter what you say you want, or imagine you want, the result is big government statist Leftisim. You're the same as any of the others. Maybe we should kick you out too. After all, you want to do away with birthright citizenship. So just because you live here doesn't mean we should allow your violent big government beliefs to violate our national "safe space."

    That is another silly thing about immigration fascists. By your own arguments you shouldn't be allowed to stay here either.
    Last edited by PierzStyx; 08-31-2016 at 04:50 PM.

  24. #21
    That is another silly thing about immigration fascists. By your own arguments you shouldn't be allowed to stay here either.
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  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Trouble I'm having is seeing how you're any different. You're demanding big government military force and border violence to violate the basic human rights of people and destroy their families over a victim less crime. No matter what you say you want, or imagine you want, the result is big government statist Leftisim. You're the same as any of the others. Maybe we should kick you out too. After all, you want to do away with birthright citizenship. So just because you live here doesn't mean we should allow your violate big government beliefs to violate our national "safe space."

    That is another silly thing about immigration fascists. By your own arguments you shouldn't be allowed to stay here either.
    But, but, it's just reality. We're not going to get rid of the welfare state so we must increase the size of government to stop people from getting welfare! It boggles the mind.

  26. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    But, but, it's just reality. We're not going to get rid of the welfare state so we must increase the size of government to stop people from getting welfare! It boggles the mind.
    Do you want to kill federal judges? because that's the only way the welfare stops. They have us boxed in and I refuse to let them destroy what's left.

    Keep them out. The statists ruined their chance at a better life, not I. We could have had open borders but no. They had to arrange Supreme Court rulings granting them medical treatment and schooling. They had to contort the meaning of the 14th amendment in regard to birth citizenship.

    Screw em now with a capital 'S.' They drew first blood with the state multiple times and have violated the NAP too many times to count. Now they think that they are going to use our principles against us for the final death blow?
    Last edited by AuH20; 08-31-2016 at 05:55 PM.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Do you want kill federal judges? because that's the only way the welfare stops.
    I could, honestly, do without them and get along just fine.



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    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    I could, honestly, do without them and get along just fine.
    I'm illustrating how far down the tracks this plan has gotten, that we are literally forced to keep them out. We can't defund their subsidies through the courts nor can we can we rebottle the 14th amendment to it's original meaning.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    This si the key. Look, it shouldn't be hard to actually turn Mexicans (and other Hispanics) into fans of smaller governments. They're already fleeing countries that have been crippled by big government socialism. You just have to help them see that. Help them see the violence done to their families and communities by the government, there and here. If you do that, you'll win converts by the number.

    As it is, all people like LibertyEagle suggest doing is violating the basic human right of movement across unowned land, investing the government with unconstitutional powers, expand protectionism and limit the free market, destroying families, and enlarging the state's ability to carry out violence against peaceful people for victimless crimes. That isn't just unlibertarian and collectivist, it is down right fascistic. And anyone that thinks that somehow protects liberty or makes them better than the statists we all detest, is delusional.
    Letting more of them in so they can vote for bigger government for us is working out fantastic...

  31. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by fedupinmo View Post
    Letting more of them in so they can vote for bigger government for us is working out fantastic...
    It's a foolproof plan. Really.

  32. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    Nomadic locusts. It's really sad how pathetic human beings are, in that they will spread their stupidity to other parts of the planet.
    Last edited by AuH20; 09-01-2016 at 12:39 PM.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    And Trump said he wants to expedite the process for millions of Hispanic voters to legally come to this country. Gotta love betrayal.
    It's not betrayal until he actually does something. Maybe he is just courting centrists.
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