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Thread: Are You Being Gaslighted?

  1. #1

    Are You Being Gaslighted?

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ing-gaslighted

    Posted May 19, 2009

    Are you in a gaslighting relationship? Here is how to tell.



    In my first blog about gaslighting, I talked about the "good news" about gaslighting—that is, that once you identify this destructive pattern in your relationship, you can change it.

    A reader asked me, if it is possible over time to get so beaten down and so sure you might be at fault, that you can't identify the dynamic? The answer is YES. The Gaslight Effect happens over time, gradually, and often, by the time you are deep into the Gaslight Tango (the dance you do with your gaslighting partner, where you allow him to define your reality) you are not the same strong self you used to be. In fact, your ego functioning has been compromised and, no longer being certain of your reality, you are not often able to accurately identify when something is "off" with your partner.

    The process of gaslighting happens in stages, although the stages are not always linear and do overlap at times, they reflect very different emotional and psychological states of mind.

    The first stage is disbelief: when the first sign of gaslighting occurs. You think of the gaslighting interaction as a strange behavior or an anomalous moment. During this first stage, things happen between you and your partner, or your boss, friend, family member, that seem odd to you.

    A young woman I know—let's call her Rhonda, just told me about her second date with Dean. She was shocked when, after a terrific dinner, he left her at the bus stop. He told her she was nuts to wait for a bus, and, if she wanted to travel that way, he was not going to wait with her and would just see her another time. But, the piece de resistance, was that he called her later that night (note that she picked up the call) and, he was insistent that there was nothing wrong with his jumping on the subway, while she took the bus. Further, he told her that he was certain there was something wrong with the way she made choices about traveling. She argued, but, ultimately wrote off his behavior as "really weird". In recounting the story, she says it is "weird", and, that he must have a "thing" about buses—but, she does really want to see him again—they have so much in common and he is really romantic.

    Unlikely that this is going to be an isolated incident. Dean sounds like he has to get his own way—and, he has to be right. Rhonda is very attracted to him and wants things to work out, so, she is likely to explain away his behavior, at least for awhile.

    The next stage is defense: where you are defending yourself against the gaslighter's manipulation. Think about it—you tell your boss, for example, you are unhappy with the assignments you have been getting; you feel you are being wrongly passed over for the best assignments. You ask him why this is happening. Instead of addressing the issue, he tells you that you are way too sensitive and way too stressed..... well, maybe you are sensitive and stressed, but, that doesn't answer the question of why you are being passed over for these better assignments. But, rather than leave it at that, or redirect the conversation, you start defending yourself, telling your boss you are not that sensitive or stressed, or, that the stress doesn't interfere with your ability to work. But, during this stage, you are driven crazy by the conversation.... going over and over, like an endless tape, in your mind.

    What's worse, is that these kind of conversations characterize your relationship more and more. You can't stand that your boss sees the situation like that and you work even harder on the assignments you find boring, even demeaning, just to prove that you are not overly sensitive and stressed out.

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    The next stage is depression: By the time you get to this stage you are experiencing a noticeable lack of joy and, you hardly recognize yourself anymore. Some of your behavior feels truly alien. You feel more cut off from friends—in fact, you don't talk to people about your relationship very much—none of them like your guy. People may express concern about how you are and you are feeling—they treat you like you really do have a problem.

    One of the examples I wrote about in my book The Gaslight Effect: How to Spot and Survive the Hidden Manipulations Other People Use to Control Your Life, concerns a lovely woman, Melanie. In the story told, Melanie was frantic because she couldn't find the "right" kind of salmon (her husband likes wild salmon and the grocery only had farm raised) to serve at the dinner party for her husband's company. She knew her husband would accuse her of not caring enough about him to go to the store earlier in the day. Incidents like this were happening so much at home, Melanie began to believe he was right. After all, what was more important than her husband? Why wasn't she a more considerate wife?

    She was unhappy almost all the time and, she really believed that she could be a better, more considerate wife. She began to look for evidence of her poor behavior. Melanie had lost the ability, over time, to see anything else wrong with the relationship, besides that she was a less than adequate wife.
    It took a long time, and a lot of reflection and analysis, reality testing and self-management, for Melanie's view to shift and for her to reclaim her reality and her life.

    **********************************

    How do you know if you are being gaslighted? If any of the following warning signs ring true, you may be dancing the Gaslight Tango. Take care of yourself by taking another look at your relationship, talking to a trusted friend; and, begin to think about changing the dynamic of your relationship . Here are the signs:
    1. You are constantly second-guessing yourself
    2. You ask yourself, "Am I too sensitive?" a dozen times a day.
    3. You often feel confused and even crazy at work.
    4. You're always apologizing to your mother, father, boyfriend, boss.
    5. You can't understand why, with so many apparently good things in your life, you aren't happier.
    6. You frequently make excuses for your partner's behavior to friends and family.
    7. You find yourself withholding information from friends and family so you don't have to explain or make excuses.
    8. You know something is terribly wrong, but you can never quite express what it is, even to yourself.
    9. You start lying to avoid the put downs and reality twists.
    10. You have trouble making simple decisions.
    11. You have the sense that you used to be a very different person - more confident, more fun-loving, more relaxed.
    12. You feel hopeless and joyless.
    13. You feel as though you can't do anything right.
    14. You wonder if you are a "good enough" girlfriend/ wife/employee/ friend; daughter.
    15. You find yourself withholding information from friends and family so you don't have to explain or make excuses.

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    Remember, there is good news about identifying the Gaslight Effect. The good news is that knowledge is power. Once you can name this all too insidious dynamic, you can work towards changing the dynamic, or getting out—take back your reality, and, get more enjoyment from your life and your relationship!

    Look for future blogs to learn more about manipulative relationships, gaslighting, power plays, and how to deal effectively and skillfully with these challenging relationships.

    Thanks for reading and have a great day!
    Robin



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  3. #2
    Are you trying to tell us something, timosman? Do you feel we are gaslighting you here?
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

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  4. #3
    Are You Being Gaslighted?
    I don't think so. I'm not real sure what gaslighting even is...putting up with peoples $#@!?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  5. #4
    Chester Copperpot
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    I don't think so. I'm not real sure what gaslighting even is...putting up with peoples $#@!?
    Its a subtle form of manipulation where your partner does stuff to make you slowly question your actions until you get to the point that you start questioning your own sanity. Like it gets to the point where this one guy I knew was smoking all the weed in the house and when the girl would ask where it went he would disclaim any knowledge and infer to her that she mustve given it to the cats thinking it was catnip..

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Chester Copperpot View Post
    Its a subtle form of manipulation where your partner does stuff to make you slowly question your actions until you get to the point that you start questioning your own sanity. Like it gets to the point where this one guy I knew was smoking all the weed in the house and when the girl would ask where it went he would disclaim any knowledge and infer to her that she mustve given it to the cats thinking it was catnip..
    I'm being gaslighted!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    I'm being gaslighted!
    Someone's been drinking your Franzia?
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  8. #7
    Chester Copperpot
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    I'm being gaslighted!
    if you think you are then you probably are... get a friend to help assess the situation

  9. #8
    Is this gaslighting?

    Mr A: Make me a dr appt.
    me: Ok
    *call the dr, make appt*
    me: Your appt is Thursday, 9:15am
    Mr A: FFS, you know I play golf Thursday am.
    me: Sorry, but it's the only day I know you're going to be home. Want me to reschedule?
    Mr A: No but quit making my appts for Thursday am.


    I also made him an appointment with his eye doc for next Thursday am but I called and changed it to Thursday afternoon. I got bitched at for that because he'll hit traffic on the way home. O_o
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.



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  11. #9
    Chester Copperpot
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Is this gaslighting?

    Mr A: Make me a dr appt.
    me: Ok
    *call the dr, make appt*
    me: Your appt is Thursday, 9:15am
    Mr A: FFS, you know I play golf Thursday am.
    me: Sorry, but it's the only day I know you're going to be home. Want me to reschedule?
    Mr A: No but quit making my appts for Thursday am.


    I also made him an appointment with his eye doc for next Thursday am but I called and changed it to Thursday afternoon. I got bitched at for that because he'll hit traffic on the way home. O_o
    LOL.. no that just sounds like regular married stuff

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Chester Copperpot View Post
    LOL.. no that just sounds like regular married stuff
    Whew! I was going to ask for another divorce. I've asked him for several but he just laughs and says no.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    I don't think so. I'm not real sure what gaslighting even is...putting up with peoples $#@!?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslight_(1944_film)

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Are you trying to tell us something, timosman? Do you feel we are gaslighting you here?
    The gaslighting is usually done by those in power in order to gain more power.

  15. #13
    Last edited by timosman; 08-25-2016 at 01:32 AM.

  16. #14
    I think we are all being gaslighted by the left, and by some who wear the label Libertarian. We are being told that being in favor of personal responsibility is the same as wanting people to be homeless, be without food, abusing children, etc.

    Maybe it's a good time to look at some cold, hard, facts and stop putting up with it.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  17. #15

    Mental Model: Gaslighting

    Gaslighting is a psychological manipulation and cognition adjustment technique, often used by militaries and governments, as well as emotionally abusive men and women, in which the perpetrator attempts to alter the reality of the victim by causing them to question their memories or frame of reference for an event.

    http://www.joshuakennon.com/mental-model-gaslighting/


    One of the big themes that I perpetually hit upon is that you, as a rational, responsible adult, should not outsource your thinking.

    When it comes to what matters in life, you must rely on your own judgment and analysis of the facts. In the words of Benjamin Graham, “You are neither right nor wrong because the crowd disagrees with you. You are right because your data and reasoning are right.” After all, if you can’t make your own decisions, how can you focus on your own happiness?

    It takes a particular temperament and strength to be able to maintain that you are correct based on an impartial study of the facts when the overwhelming power of social proof works against you. In practical terms, if I teach you anything, it is that you shouldn’t accept something as lex terre, whether it is stated by me or some other authority figure in your life. You must think for yourself. You must arrive at your own conclusions. That doesn’t mean you can’t look for input from others, which is advisable, only that you must reserve final judgement for yourself.

    For those who aren’t naturally imbued with this trait, there is a form of psychological strategy against which you should leran to protect yourself. It is called gaslighting.

    What Is Gaslighting?

    The term gaslighting is derived from a 1938 play called Gas Light written by Patrick Hamilton. Gas light was one of the longest running non-musicals on Broadway, staged under the name Angel Street for American audiences. The plot involved a husband who, in an attempt to convince his wife she is going insane, insists that she is imagining things that are really happening, such as the gas lights in the house dimming.

    In its basic form, gaslighting involves modifying evidence and falsifying information for the purpose of making the intended victim question his or her recollection, memory, analysis, and perception of events or behaviors. Gaslighting is commonly used by the military and other high-level organizations for socio-political operations. It is sometimes used by the mental health profession as a concept to describe a particular form of psychological manipulation in inter-personal relationships.

    Sometimes, gaslighting can be as simple as knowingly denying something took place. This is a common behavior exhibited by perpetrators of child abuse, who will sometimes deny completely that abuse happened, intending to make the victim doubt his or her own recollection.

    Other times, gaslighting can involve the creation of elaborate schemes, experiences, and situations that cause a person to question their own judgment and recollection. There are a good number of con games based upon the concept of gaslighting, almost all of which are designed to steal money from the victim.

    A brilliant example of gaslighting is the Michael Douglas movie The Game. It is one great series of gaslighting from beginning to end.

    What Gaslighting Is Not: The Term Gaslighting Is Often Misapplied to Situations That Are Best Covered By Another Mental Model

    I’m of the opinion that some in the mental health field have co-opted the mental model of gaslighting and expanded it to the point that it is no longer useful, essentially turning it into a meaningless phrase like we’ve done with “terrorist” and “war”.

    As thinkers, our job is to understand the who, what, where, when, and why. Restricting the definition of gaslighting to its origins is useful in this quest. As such, going back to its core, gaslighting should require intent; what the law would call mens rea. If someone is in denial and trying to protect themselves subconsciously, denying an event is not gaslighting. We should call it denial. If someone misremembers something, that is not gaslighting. It is misremembering. Both scenarios do not involve the willful desire to manipulate others, so labeling it as gaslighting does nothing to improve cognition and learn to avoid it.

    I had hoped to link to good resources on gaslighting so you could research it more but it seems it is an under-covered mental model. Unfortunately, one of the only books on the topic, The Gas Light Effect: How to Spot and Survive the Hidden Manipulation Others Use to Control Your Life by Robin Stern, suffers from what I consider a handful of seriously misguided notions that are damaging in and of themselves. In fact, I think the book could do more harm than good for someone looking build up their understanding of mental models.

    The short version: Stern’s book should have been called “Emotional Invalidation: How to Spot and Survive People Who Don’t Value Your Feelings”. Though there is some overlap, I don’t believe she has a firm grasp on the spirit of gaslighting and instead expands too far. To see what I mean, look at the list of “15 signs” that you are being gaslighted put forth by Stern:

    1. You constantly second-guess yourself.
    2. You wonder, “Am I being too sensitive?” a dozen times a day.
    3. You wonder frequently if you are a “good enough” girlfriend/wife/employee/friend/daughter.
    4. You have trouble making simple decisions.
    5. You think twice before bringing up innocent topics of conversation.
    6. You frequently make excuses for your partner’s behavior to friends and family.
    7. Before your partner comes home from work, you run through a checklist in your head to anticipate anything you might have done wrong that day.
    8. You buy clothes for yourself, furnishings for your apartment, or other personal purchases thinking about what your partner would like instead of what would make you feel great.
    9. You actually start to enjoy the constant criticism, because you think, “What doesn’t kill me will make me stronger.”
    10. You start speaking to your husband through his secretary so you don’t have to tell him things you’re afraid might upset him.
    11. You start lying to avoid the put-downs and reality twists.
    12. You feel as though you can’t do anything right.
    13. You frequently wonder if you’re good enough for your lover.
    14. Your kids start trying to protect you from being humiliated by your partner.
    15. You feel hopeless and joyless.


    First, let’s ignore the subconscious misandry in her writing (it would seem in Stern’s world, all perpetrators are men and all victims are women). It is far more probable that in most cases, people suffering from the checklist she presents might have significant self-esteem issues or are clinically depressed. Feeling hopeless and joyless, wondering if you are good enough for your spouse, having trouble making decisions? Occam’s razor applies: The simplest explanation is the most likely. If those are your warning signs, you should see a doctor and have your brain chemistry checked before jumping to the conclusion that you are being gaslighted.

    Many of the other behaviors are not symptoms of gaslighting but rather of emotional invalidation by an abusive spouse. They are not synonymous.

    Stern essentially equates gaslighting with any behavior in others that makes you feel bad about yourself or that you don’t like. It’s what Charlie Munger calls the “man with a hammer” tendency (“to a man with a hammer, every problem looks like a nail”). She fails the common sense test in that she seems oblivious to the reality that:

    • Sometimes, people are jackasses.
    • Sometimes, people are insensitive.
    • Sometimes, people don’t care about you as much as you care about them because you’ve misjudged your relationship.
    • Sometimes, you really are too emotional or unprepared (e.g., a former classmate of mine used to run out of the room in tears, sobbing, when the professor would call on her during a lab because she couldn’t handle the pressure of failing in front of a group; the professor would just stand there, befuddled, until he finally stopped calling on her at all).
    • Sometimes, you are giving off awkward social signals that make others uncomfortable so their behavior is a defense mechanism to keep you at a distance.
    • Sometimes, people are in denial about something and have convinced themselves of its truth.
    • Sometimes, heavy dogma such as religious indoctrination, sets parameters for behavior within sub-groups and the folks involved truly believe what they are saying.


    None of these things indicate gaslighting unless they are consciously and willfully attempting to manipulate your reality to gain your compliance and exercise control over you. In all other cases, there are other mental models that better label and define behavior. Again, as thinkers, we are interested in motive just as much as outcome.

    In other words:

    • Stern says gaslighting would be: “Your husband crosses the line in his flirtations with another woman at a dinner party. When you confront him, he asks you to stop being insecure and controlling. After a long argument, you apologize for giving him a hard time.”
    • I say gaslighting would be: “Your husband pays a male escort to call your phone and leave an explicit message in your voice mail, using your name and details that only an intimate partner would know. Then, he ‘discovers’ it and slowly convinces everyone of your friends and family you are an adulterer to emotionally manipulate and dominate you.”


    In Stern’s example, it is entirely possible the man really thinks he is doing nothing wrong (even if he is) or, alternatively, the woman really is paranoid, self-conscious, and jealous. Depending on the circumstances, the man’s behavior probably isn’t gaslighting. In the second example, there is a clear, deliberate manipulation of the world to create a false reality that is then used to control the victim. That is gaslighting.

    How to Protect Yourself from Gaslighting

    The biggest key to protecting yourself from gaslighting goes back to a central theme of this blog: Trust your own judgment. To do that, you need independent and verifiable evidence of what happens in your life that is not subject to tampering or even your own biases.

    • Never let anyone stand between you and the source data, no matter how much you love them or trust them.
    • Maintain independent sources of data that are secret and available only to you
    • Set out to prove your hypothesis that you are the subject of gaslighting
    • If you are being gaslighted, figure out the perpetrator’s primary motivations and then ask yourself, “Cui bono?”


    For example, if someone were being gaslighted as in the play for which the mental model gets its name, they could secretly purchase a lux meter and monitor the light intensity in a room to independently verify if their cognition was accurate. Either the light is getting dimmer or it isn’t. It is simple enough to prove. Likewise, if a spouse is cheating on you, they either are or they aren’t. Again, it is simple enough to prove.

    One final note: Gaslighting is often most successful when it is combined with another mental model, the Contrast Principle. By keeping changes just below the threshold of perceptibility, it is possible to slowly “creep” into compliance with a victim in the form of encroachment. Notice that the original gaslighter didn’t turn the lights down all at once. He slowly, steadily, decreased their power so that his behavior could be denied.

  18. #16
    This is the image I get when I see this thread title...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    This is the image I get when I see this thread title...
    This is actually quite sad. Thank you for a valuable contribution nonetheless.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is actually quite sad. Thank you for a valuable contribution nonetheless.

    I was just joking, Timmy. Are you being gaslighted by someone? I'll beat them up for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post

    I was just joking, Timmy. Are you being gaslighted by someone? I'll beat them up for you.
    Thanks for the offer but it is just the government and the employer. I think I can handle that.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Thanks for the offer but it is just the government and the employer. I think I can handle that.
    That reminds me of an article I read about a woman who said social security jipped her out of $100,000.00. Everyone told her she was crazy but she proved she was right all along.

    WASHINGTON - A homeless woman who’s been trying to prove Social Security owes her more than $100,000 may soon get her payout.

    The Washington Post reports 80-year-old Wanda Witter moved to the District of Columbia in 1999 to seek work after losing her job as a machinist years earlier.

    Witter remained jobless, and in 2006 decided to draw Social Security benefits. However, the monthly checks ranged from $900 to $300. Believing the checks were wrong, Witter didn’t cash them and sought help.

    Many thought Witter was crazy, but social worker Julie Turner confirmed Witter has paperwork proving her claims. Turner took Witter to attorney Daniela de la Piedra, who took on her case.

    The lawyer says Witter should receive a $99,999 Social Security check soon.

    Social Security officials declined to comment.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/homeless...es-her-100000/
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  24. #21
    Ya I have a couple friends who are gaslighters, they are friends with each other as well. Pretty intense dudes, fun to be around but you gotta watch your $#@!. One of them knows I'm too smart to fall for it - the other one is insidiously good at it, by far the best I've ever seen. He still thinks he is smarter than me though and he tries to pull that $#@! all the time, he gets frustrated when he can't get it to work on me and we have the occasional falling out over it.
    Last edited by dannno; 08-25-2016 at 01:57 AM.
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  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Is this gaslighting?

    Mr A: Make me a dr appt.
    me: Ok
    *call the dr, make appt*
    me: Your appt is Thursday, 9:15am
    Mr A: FFS, you know I play golf Thursday am.
    me: Sorry, but it's the only day I know you're going to be home. Want me to reschedule?
    Mr A: No but quit making my appts for Thursday am.


    I also made him an appointment with his eye doc for next Thursday am but I called and changed it to Thursday afternoon. I got bitched at for that because he'll hit traffic on the way home. O_o
    No, those were both your fault. Well, at least the first one.

    A real gaslighter would be more like:

    Mr. A: Make a Dr. appointment for me next Thurs.
    you: Ok
    *Calls the dr., make appt*
    you: I made your Dr. appointment for next Thurs.
    Mr. A: Dammit. You KNOW I have golf on Thursday, why would you make an appointment that day?
    you: But you said....
    Mr. A: I SAID that because I wasn't thinking straight because you burnt the toast! (as you remember back, the toast was a little dark but not burnt, but while you are thinking back about the toast this is when you start questioning, doubt enters your mind over something trivial that has nothing to do with the topic at hand and this is where the gaslighter begins their art work and starts to tweak everything around and make you question if this is all in fact your fault)


    If you can stay rational and stick to the relevant facts and keep the person honest gaslighting becomes pretty ineffective. If you get caught up in their bull$#@! then you might fall for it.
    Last edited by dannno; 08-25-2016 at 02:18 AM.
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  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    No, those were both your fault. Well, at least the first one.
    She has known MrAnimal for quite some time already. And she still screws it up. Intentional? Attention seeking?

    He should either withhold sex for a while until she gets it right or take her up on the offer to divorce.
    Last edited by Danke; 08-25-2016 at 10:19 AM.
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  27. #24
    Suzi has been gaslighted. She thinks she needs husbands permission to get a divorce.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    No, those were both your fault. Well, at least the first one.

    A real gaslighter would be more like:

    Mr. A: Make a Dr. appointment for me next Thurs.
    you: Ok
    *Calls the dr., make appt*
    you: I made your Dr. appointment for next Thurs.
    Mr. A: Dammit. You KNOW I have golf on Thursday, why would you make an appointment that day?
    you: But you said....
    Mr. A: I SAID that because I wasn't thinking straight because you burnt the toast! (as you remember back, the toast was a little dark but not burnt, but while you are thinking back about the toast this is when you start questioning, doubt enters your mind over something trivial that has nothing to do with the topic at hand and this is where the gaslighter begins their art work and starts to tweak everything around and make you question if this is all in fact your fault)


    If you can stay rational and stick to the relevant facts and keep the person honest gaslighting becomes pretty ineffective. If you get caught up in their bull$#@! then you might fall for it.
    How in the hell did this turn into my fault? I have a rule. You can tell me to do it or you can tell me how to do it but you can't tell me both. I made that up because Mr A likes to tell me to do stuff and then likes to boss me around when I'm trying to do it. He's a nitpicker.

    He asked me to make the appointment. If it was so damn important that I work it around golf, he should've done it himself - it's not like his fingers are broken.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    She has known MrAnimal for quite some time a while already. And she still screws it up. Intentional? Attention seeking?

    He should either withhold sex for a while until she gets it right or take her up on the offer to divorce.
    You know what else he did? He begged me to get in the pool with him and I did even though the water was cold (it rained yesterday morning). First, he said I was a crybaby because the water was 87 and then he kept giving me wedgies so I took off my bottoms and then he told me to put them back on because he was afraid the kids were going to be home soon. What kind of man tells you to put your bottoms back on? He's just a big tease and a scaredy cat who wears a gay looking Speedo. I'm even nice about the gay Speedos, I tell him it's very sexy in a European kind of way but in reality, it makes our pool look like a gay bathhouse. He says that they don't actually make you gay, they just make you look gay but I'm starting to have my doubts. And on top of all that, I call him Mr Delicious even though it makes my kids gag. True story.

    Also, when we were driving through the old neighborhood a few weeks ago, he started pointing out all the parking lots I tried to get him to have sex in when we were dating. Clear case of slut shaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Suzi has been gaslighted. She thinks she needs husbands permission to get a divorce.

    I knew it! I even put get a divorce on his to do list once but he didn't do it. He just wrote no next to it and stuck the list back on the fridge. See what I have to put up with?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    This is the image I get when I see this thread title...

    That is what I was thinking too!

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    I'm being gaslighted!

  34. #30

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