I sometimes struggle with the concept of Libertarianism.

[heavenlyboy34]

Eh. "Libertarians", themselves, struggle with libertarianism. Now they're contending, under the banner of Liberty itself, that they'd send men from the government with guns to force Individuals and groups of Individuals to relinquish their principal supporting right to Life and Liberty itself and that it's also worthy consideration to sign off on an official illegal transfer of power from The People over to a King along with being open to Universal Basic Incomes derived from carbon tax revenue. That's just scwewy. And if you're not with us, well then, by golly, you're against us. Heh. Makes me want to whistle freakin Dixie alright.

Apparently Liberty doesn't mean, today, what it meant back in the day when our founders declared it.

At least Trump doesn't have the stones and blatant dishonesty to maintain that he's going to force Individuls and groups of Individuals to lick government boots at the ends of the barrels of their guns under the banner of Liberty.

Is Trump an authoritarian? Absolutely. But he sure as heck doesn't try to disguise his authoritarianism under the cloak of Liberty. At least he's honest about his authoritarianism. He's not a sneak. He's at least a right proper, in your face, respectable kind of tyrant and not the kind that'd sit down with you at your own table, in your own house, break bread with you and smile at you until the second you turn around and shoves a knife in the middle of your back.

The Cult Of Founding Fathers is strong with you. Sure libertarians disagree. That's why the private propertarianism at its heart is why it wins. Jones and Smith can disagree on lots of things-but they can apply their preferred policy to their own property. The statists of various sorts on the other hand, spend amazing amounts of energy trying to strongarm and coerce people to accept their solutions.

[Natural Citizen]

The Cult Of Founding Fathers is strong with you. Sure libertarians disagree. That's why the private propertarianism at its heart is why it wins. Jones and Smith can disagree on lots of things-but they can apply their preferred policy to their own property. The statists of various sorts on the other hand, spend amazing amounts of energy trying to strongarm and coerce people to accept their solutions.

Aside from my openly admitted respect for the founders versus your openly admitted disrespect for them, I don't see where we disagree here.

Then again, I suppose it's my American heritage. Whatchu know about that? Did I ever tell you the story about my crazy uncle? He was a General. He rode with Washington in 1776. Actually, he did all sorts of sht. Formed a couple of colonial militias, commanded a regiment in 1776, commander in Fort Pitt, Adjutant General of the Continental Army, member of the congress of confederation, 32nd Degree Freemason, and so forth and so forth. True story. Which had a lot to do with my upbringing as far as the where and how and the kind of person that I am.

Actually, I had a few crazy uncles like that. But anyway. Comes down to Americn heritage, I suppose. That's all. I'm proud of my heritage. End of the day, I share blood with some of the men who spilled theirs for your right to sit here and talk sht about em.

[John F Kennedy III]

I think your definition is more like anarchy. Jobs is one thing, but what about crime? If crime is on the increase from outsiders then I think a solution to curve that crime rate is to take preventative measures like a wall to protect the people who live in this country.

What's wrong with anarchy?

[John F Kennedy III]

Show me one freedom that is not regulated.

That's impossible. It isn't a freedom if it is regulated.

[John F Kennedy III]

Rep. Ron Paul has a problem with the idea of a U.S. border fence.

“The people that want big fences and guns, sure, we could secure the border,” the congressman noted. “A barbed wire fence with machine guns, that would do the trick. I don’t believe that is what America is all about.”

“Every time you think about this toughness on the border and ID cards and REAL IDs, think it’s a penalty against the American people too. I think this fence business is designed and may well be used against us and keep us in. In economic turmoil, the people want to leave with their capital and there’s capital controls and there’s people controls. Every time you think about the fence, think about the fences being used against us, keeping us in.”

[bunklocoempire]

For instance, I know Ron Paul is for an open border but Libertarianism for me in a nutshell is the freedom for a person to do as he/she pleases as long as it does not negatively affect the lives of others.

An open border does help benefit people south of this country looking for opportunities, but at the same time we have to protect the people in this country and their jobs. In my view, Trumps style of politics is not necessarily the same as Ron Paul, I don't see him as an authoritarian as some others do. I see no problem with Nationalism either as Trump puts this nation's concerns first, and concerns of other nations second.


I could go on and on with examples of this personal conflict, but my point is, "Don't tread on me" means to me that sometimes we have to regulate our freedoms in order to protect other freedoms.

My stances are still pretty much the same as I support Trump as they were when I supported Ron Paul. I wish the two forces were more aligned.

You might be concerned about aligning the wrong things. You may want to save yourself a lot of time and skip some steps.

"Don't tread on me" means to me that sometimes we...

Sometimes we...

I think I see the problem. Been there, done that.

Step 1: Figure out the condition of mankind. Realize government amplifies all those wonderful traits, and sells EVERYTHING with fear and pride. (you have God in your handle, so you might have this figured out already)

Step 2: Figure out how courageous you are willing to be to pursue your own liberty.

Step 3: Figure out why you won't allow others to pursue more liberty than you yourself are willing to pursue. (observing N.A.P. of course)

Step 4: Correct inconsistencies. Grow your courage.

This is as complicated as it needs to be.

I had a pretty good idea of mankind's condition, but I was acting in a way that was inconsistent with my belief.
I voted for George W twice. (fear and apathy/ignorance on my part)
I stumbled across Ron Paul who challenged me to be consistent with the N.A.P. and my faith.
I found the RPFs.
I thought myself a Libertarian and began voting 3rd party. (Libertarian & Constitution Party candidates)
I was challenged to grow more courageous by my faith in Jesus, and by reading RPFs/Ron Paul/Bastiat etc. -always referring back to step #1 and what I already knew about the nature of mankind. (my OWN nature as well)
I corrected my inconsistencies where I found them -an ongoing process to get day to day living consistent with my faith.
Turns out I'm really some sort sort of AnCap Voluntarist.
Now, I'm aligned, and I vote or don't vote accordingly, without any fear or anxiety.

First do no harm.

Private sponsorship immigrants = good
Government sponsorship immigrants (through theft/tax) = bad

If the candidate or policy strays from that, or doesn't tell me the whole story, I don't support them/it, & I stay aligned and consistent in my beliefs.
It starts with me.

Good luck to ya!

[Natural Citizen]

What's wrong with anarchy?

What happens is that the socialists end up taking the anarchists stuff at the barrel of a gun in order to fund their program. End of the day, it really doesn't work because yer right back in the same scenario that you were trying to avoid. Of course, that's only the short of it. No pun intended. It could be expanded upon.

[Natural Citizen]

Of course, it could work in a very, very, small socialist community, maybe.

[John F Kennedy III]

It would be a good start.



They can swim.

They can't swim forever.

[John F Kennedy III]

Well for one thing I live in Los Angeles in CA, where I am a minority. Now because of mass immigration from legals and illegals and programs like affirmative action, I cannot get a job in the country that my white european brethren created. I have not worked in about 2 years, and now even most of the recruiters here are of latin descent. They are not hiring any whites anymore, even after we are the ones who created the movies, the television and the studios. I have only worked at the movies studios and my resume is solid. Open border policies do not work in favor of my interests or in the interests of the whites who created this great country.

Move.

[4_God_N_Country]

What's wrong with anarchy?

So you are cool with no traffic rules, no borders and opening the prisons for starters?

[4_God_N_Country]

Move.

I was here first.

[John F Kennedy III]

LOL. He changed his avatar from Trump to Ron Paul. But he keeps saying the same dumb $#@!.

[John F Kennedy III]

Don't worry about the liberals, Trump and Assange got it under control.

Trump is awfully damn liberal.

[otherone]

So you are ok with refugees and illegals coming over the border taking jobs and committing crimes?

What does that have to do with you deciding what freedom I have?

[otherone]

Show me one freedom that is not regulated.

Is that a good thing?

[John F Kennedy III]

So you are cool with no traffic rules, no borders and opening the prisons for starters?

I am cool with everything that doesn't violate someone else's rights. You want to smoke crack and beat your head against a tree everyday? Fine by me.

What do you mean by opening prisons?

[John F Kennedy III]

I was here first.

So just cuz you were there first means you will stick around and remain jobless, on welfare. Instead of moving and making an attempt to better your life.

[4_God_N_Country]

LOL. He changed his avatar from Trump to Ron Paul. But he keeps saying the same dumb $#@!.

Actually the mods took the Trump one down. No freedom of speech even on a Libertarian board. There are rules here but that was more like censorship.

I should do a split as I support both.

[4_God_N_Country]

So just cuz you were there first means you will stick around and remain jobless, on welfare. Instead of moving and making an attempt to better your life.

My son loves california, I'm not moving out just because others move in.

[4_God_N_Country]

So just cuz you were there first means you will stick around and remain jobless, on welfare. Instead of moving and making an attempt to better your life.

I am not on welfare, I'm living off of credit cards. I'm about 40k in debt. Thank you invaders.

[John F Kennedy III]

Actually the mods took the Trump one down. No freedom of speech even on a Libertarian board. There are rules here but that was more like censorship.

I should do a split as I support both.

Supporting both is illogical. Either you don't understand Ron Paul or you don't understand Trump. Or both.

[John F Kennedy III]

I am not on welfare, I'm living off of credit cards. I'm about 40k in debt.

Yet you still refuse to attempt to better your life in a new location.

[4_God_N_Country]

I am cool with everything that doesn't violate someone else's rights. You want to smoke crack and beat your head against a tree everyday? Fine by me.

What do you mean by opening prisons?

Opening prisons means letting all of the criminals out. We don't need rules remember?

[4_God_N_Country]

Yet you still refuse to attempt to better your life in a new location.

Name one location that is better than California?

[fisharmor]

What happens is that the socialists end up taking the anarchists stuff at the barrel of a gun in order to fund their program. End of the day, it really doesn't work because yer right back in the same scenario that you were trying to avoid. Of course, that's only the short of it. No pun intended. It could be expanded upon.

I have posted this very argument here before despite my being a committed anarchist. It is true that the state in its evil will not tolerate any geography to be stateless.
But you cannot make the argument that because the state is evil we need the state and sound like you are making sense.

[John F Kennedy III]

Opening prisons means letting all of the criminals out. We don't need rules remember?

Who said we don't need rules?

[John F Kennedy III]

Name one location that is better than California?

New Hampshire

[Natural Citizen]

I have posted this very argument here before despite my being a committed anarchist. It is true that the state in its evil will not tolerate any geography to be stateless.
But you cannot make the argument that because the state is evil we need the state and sound like you are making sense.

Thi is something I've been thinking on a lot lately. The whole anarchy thing. There's sooooo many different variants. I left off at Anarcho-Monarchism. I think rev's a proponent of that philosophy if I'm not mistaken.

[4_God_N_Country]

New Hampshire

I like to visit snow, but I hate to live in it. I love hot weather and I love to be near the ocean (with waves).