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Thread: The Biggest Threat to National Security is the Debt

  1. #91
    Banks have an incentive to make loans to people with poor credit because the banks benefit from those who default on their loans. They get both the property and whatever was paid to the loan. Win win for the bank, lose lose for the people.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.



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  3. #92
    I know it's been posted before... But great video - Tony Robbins breaks down the Debt/Deficit.
    Last edited by Peter4Paul2016; 01-20-2017 at 02:19 PM.

  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Banks have an incentive to make loans to people with poor credit because the banks benefit from those who default on their loans. They get both the property and whatever was paid to the loan. Win win for the bank, lose lose for the people.
    Not really. If a person is going to default on the loan, and his property is worth more than he paid for it, he would sell it to be able to meet the loan (or easily find a bank that would cover him while he finds someone to buy his property). When the property has lost a lot of value (see: the financial crisis), then he'll just default. In that case, the bank gets a property that isn't worth (often nearly) as the original loan.

  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Banks have an incentive to make loans to people with poor credit because the banks benefit from those who default on their loans. They get both the property and whatever was paid to the loan. Win win for the bank, lose lose for the people.
    Lending- particularly home lending- has changed completely. Fifty years ago if you took out a loan for a car or home you went to the bank. They issued the loan and kept it until you paid it off. That gave them an incentive to be pretty sure you were going to pay them back. In the housing bubble, that link got broken. Most loans were no longer issued by banks (they did- they just became smaller players in the market). The loan issuers were after quick profits. They signed up a loan and quickly sold the loan to somebody else- guaranteeing them their profit now. They collect the money and move onto the next person. Since they weren't going to have to worry about if you would actually pay them back or not, they didn't care if you could pay it back or not. Quality of loan was insignificant. Quantity was the key. More loans, more profits. It got to where if you could sign your name they gave you thousands of dollars. Job? Not their issue. Income source or other assets? Don't matter.

    So why were investors buying all those bad and iffy loans? In the past, mortgages were the safest loans around. The default rate was extremely low. So they were happy to buy up mortgage backed securities. They were considered so safe, the investors could not get enough of them. They too encouraged getting as many people as possible to sign up for mortgages.

    Until they started to collapse and defaults started popping up and housing prices collapsed. Then the huge demand for mortgage securities vanished. The securities weren't valueless- they just had unknown value: nobody could say what percent were good mortgages and what percent were bad. Nobody wanted to take the risk.

    They get both the property and whatever was paid to the loan. Win win for the bank, lose lose for the people.
    Banks don't want to be landlords. Selling defaulted property rarely gives them the value of the money lent out. They lose on the deal- they make money when the borrower makes payments.

  6. #95
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    dr. no [with panky truth blurbs added]: "Yes, of course, the [private-never-been-honestly-audited] banks are the ones that control [our money]. Sure, they can increase [or decrease] the money supply [and they have privileged foreknowledge of certain future economic condition$ and all that entail$], [and let me rub this in your nose] but without access to that money, the private sector's ability to produce would be greatly reduced...[like a slavemaster might say to his $laves: 'without the food, shelter, etc., i provide, your ability to produce would be greatly reduced']



    ...again, you, zippy, and whole bunch of republicrats seem to have no problem with 'our' stinking, insane, plutocratic monetary order:...whereby a certain class of people are privy to HUGE advantage$ in 'the great $coreboard of life'...

    ...better be careful...if you let a privileged cla$$ of monied $hyster$ steal too many free point$, that privileged cla$$ might at some time in the distant future have their way with people not so privileged....anytime, any way, etc., they want...

    ...[hint for republicrat dullards, other monetary ignoramuses, etc.,: i tried to channel the texan here ^^^^^]
    Last edited by H. E. Panqui; 01-23-2017 at 12:04 AM.

  7. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by H. E. Panqui View Post
    dr. no [with panky truth blurbs added]: "Yes, of course, the [private-never-been-honestly-audited] banks are the ones that control [our money]. Sure, they can increase [or decrease] the money supply [and they have privileged foreknowledge of certain future economic condition$ and all that entail$], [and let me rub this in your nose] but without access to that money, the private sector's ability to produce would be greatly reduced...[like a slavemaster might say to his $laves: 'without the food, shelter, etc., i provide, your ability to produce would be greatly reduced']



    ...again, you, zippy, and whole bunch of republicrats seem to have no problem with 'our' stinking, insane, plutocratic monetary order:...whereby a certain class of people are privy to HUGE advantage$ in 'the great $coreboard of life'...

    ...better be careful...if you let a privileged cla$$ of monied $hyster$ steal too many free point$, that privileged cla$$ might at some time in the distant future have their way with people not so privileged....anytime, any way, etc., they want...

    ...[hint for republicrat dullards, other monetary ignoramuses, etc.,: i tried to channel the texan here ^^^^^]
    Of course the private banks have been audited. It is just that we've treated the banks like a biological organism that can regulate itself. Shareholders and independent agencies (like Moody's) don't do a great job making sure that executives are not engaging in control fraud. I mean, you talk about how the bankers had knowledge of future information. Then why were the banks almost killed off in 2008? Why weren't the bankers making money off that inside, future information? Instead, the banks got killed, while the executives made off like bandits. Not because they utilized information to make money in the market, but because they used their companies's resources to pay themselves giant bonuses and salaries. They also bought off the politicians so that the banks would be bailed out without a single executive going to jail for his fraudulent behaviour.



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  9. #97
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    dr. no asserts: 'Of course the private banks have been audited.'



    ...yes, like when my aunt thoroughly 'audited' my cousin's bedroom for pot that my cousin hid in the barn...

    ...c'mon man!!!..surely you are aware that the person for whom this website is named has, for a loooong time, sought to have thi$ $tinking $ystem HONESTLY, TRANSPARENTLY, etc., 'AUDITED'...the apparently good dr. ron paul understands that any honest audit will include honest information about tran$actions with foreign governments, foreign central banks, etc. foreign money launderer$ galore, 'Federal Open Market Committee' transaction$, etc. ad nauseam!!! [hint for republicrats: these transaction$ are rumored to be in the hundreds of trillion$...you might want to take a look...]

    ...methinks that apologists for this STINKING ROTTEN order need to get real!!...it seems 'the $corekeeper$' in 'the great $coreboard of life' are getting/have gotten illion$ of 'free point$'...

    ...as one wag put it, 'this destructive monetary order is simply the most important problem that intelligent people can concern themselves with...[which is why 99% of the gd fool puppets with r's and d's after their names are so unconcerned...instead, the gd republicrat fools will fight over 'hillary vs. donald'...both of whom are OBVIOUSLY no threat to thi$ mi$erable, insane, exi$ting monetary order!!!

    ...republicrats...UGH!!!....

    ...p.s.....any of you who [naively, ignorantly] claim 'the banks have been audited':...can you please tell me how many government bond$ the banksters have acquired through [fraudulent] 'deposit creation'?...[oddly, no one seems concerned about banksters acquiring 'our' bond$ for nothing...you and i must work for the money to acquire bond$...but the banksters get them for nothing, driving down the effective rate of return we get...but not a peep from ANY gd fool with an r or d after their name!!!]
    Last edited by H. E. Panqui; 02-02-2017 at 11:06 AM.

  10. #98



    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  11. #99
    Senator David Perdue:

    The single greatest threat to our national security is our national debt. Last month, the debt topped $20 trillion. This should have sounded alarms throughout Washington. However, it went largely unnoticed and today itís still business as usual.

    Washington is on track to rack up another $11 trillion in debt over the next decade, and thereís another $100 trillion in future unfunded liabilities (consisting of spending of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, interest on the debt and pensions for federal employees) coming at us like a freight train. Thatís close to $1 million for every household in America.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  12. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    Senator David Perdue:

    The single greatest threat to our national security is our national debt. Last month, the debt topped $20 trillion. This should have sounded alarms throughout Washington. However, it went largely unnoticed and today it’s still business as usual.

    Washington is on track to rack up another $11 trillion in debt over the next decade, and there’s another $100 trillion in future unfunded liabilities (consisting of spending of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, interest on the debt and pensions for federal employees) coming at us like a freight train. That’s close to $1 million for every household in America.
    Should have voted against that tax cut which will add another $1 trillion plus.

  13. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Should have voted against that tax cut which will add another $1 trillion plus.
    Maybe it will add that over years but only because of the spending. It is still minuscule compared to the real source of debt that is the spending, spending, spending, and borrowing and interest and borrowing, and oh yes more spending. All the taxation in the world is not going to stop the spending. Crippling the economy with taxation does not do anything to stop the spending bleeding. Like, the added extra $200 billion in add-ons for defense, disaster relief, ObamaCare insurance bailouts, border control, veterans and law enforcement, or the fact the Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security will exceed $2.5 trillion by FY 2022 and rising. As of August 2017 the US total military budget for FY 2018 is over $824 billion, not counting the recently added extra $70 billion for the Pentagon budget.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  14. #102
    Even Deep State Elements Admit
    Intel chief: Federal debt poses 'dire threat' to national security

    Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats warned lawmakers Tuesday that failing to curb the national debt could jeopardize national security. ... the U.S. fiscal situation “is unsustainable ... and represents a dire threat to our economy and national security.” ... “I would urge all of us to recognize the need to address this challenge and take action as soon as possible before a fiscal crisis emerges that truly undermines our ability to ensure our national security,” ...

    Former Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Mike Mullen in 2010 called the national debt “the most significant threat to our national security.” ...
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  15. #103
    The federal debt increased by $1,271,158,167,126.72 in fiscal 2018, according to data released today by the Treasury.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  16. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    The federal debt increased by $1,271,158,167,126.72 in fiscal 2018, according to data released today by the Treasury.
    And that's during the "boom". How much will the debt increase during the next bust? 3 trillion a year?

    But the market is still going up so nothing to worry about.



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  18. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    And that's during the "boom". How much will the debt increase during the next bust? 3 trillion a year?
    Sounds about right.

  19. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    And that's during the "boom". How much will the debt increase during the next bust? 3 trillion a year?

    But the market is still going up so nothing to worry about.
    If we make the tariffs high enough, there will never be a bust. We'll tax ourselves into endless prosperity.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

  20. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Sounds about right.
    One thing that irritates me are those "warning" articles saying the debt is projected to hit 30T by 2030 or whatever. They're always off by orders of magnitude. The debt could hit 30T in a few years. I think many of those articles were actually designed to calm fears of too much debt.

  21. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    If we make the tariffs high enough, there will never be a bust. We'll tax ourselves into endless prosperity.

  22. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    One thing that irritates me are those "warning" articles saying the debt is projected to hit 30T by 2030 or whatever. They're always off by orders of magnitude. The debt could hit 30T in a few years. I think many of those articles were actually designed to calm fears of too much debt.
    Even without a recession, the debt should reach 30T by about 2026, by my math.

    As for recession: from 08-09 revenues fell ~17%, and spending increased ~17%.

    ...people forget about the second part (recessions cause people to start falling down stairs onto the disability roll, for some reason)

    At present revenue and spending levels, that would mean well over a trillion in additional debt (per year of recession).

  23. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Even without a recession, the debt should reach 30T by about 2026, by my math.

    As for recession: from 08-09 revenues fell ~17%, and spending increased ~17%.

    ...people forget about the second part (recessions cause people to start falling down stairs onto the disability roll, for some reason)

    At present revenue and spending levels, that would mean well over a trillion in additional debt (per year of recession).
    CBO is projecting passing $1 trillion this year and averaging $1.2 trillion over the next ten.

    https://www.cbo.gov/publication/53781

    As required by statute, when constructing its baseline projections, CBO incorporates the assumption that current laws governing taxes and spending will generally remain unchanged in future years. Under that assumption, in CBO’s baseline, federal deficits average $1.2 trillion per year and total $12.4 trillion over the 2019–2028 period. As a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP), the deficit increases from 3.5 percent in 2017 to 5.4 percent in 2022. Thereafter, the deficit fluctuates between 4.6 percent and 5.2 percent of GDP from 2023 through 2028. Over the past 50 years, the annual deficit has averaged 2.9 percent of GDP.

    That pattern of deficits is expected to occur mainly because, under current law, revenues and outlays would grow at different rates. Revenues would be roughly flat as a percentage of GDP over the next several years before rising steadily in the second half of the period. In contrast, outlays would increase in most years through 2028.

  24. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    CBO is projecting passing $1 trillion this year and averaging $1.2 trillion over the next ten.

    https://www.cbo.gov/publication/53781
    Precisely

    We're at 21+ now.

    Throw in 1 trillion the first year + 7 years of 1.2 trillion (which may be optimistic, even without a recession), and that makes ~30 trillion by 2026.

    If we assume 2 years of 08-09 style recession at some point during that period, more like 33 trillion.

  25. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Precisely

    We're at 21+ now.

    Throw in 1 trillion the first year + 7 years of 1.2 trillion (which may be optimistic, even without a recession), and that makes ~30 trillion by 2026.

    If we assume 2 years of 08-09 style recession at some point during that period, more like 33 trillion.

    Hey, $1.2 trillion here, $1.2 trillion there and pretty soon you're talkin ng about real money.

    But at least it isn't Hillary doing this to our kids and grandkds.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul



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  27. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Precisely

    We're at 21+ now.

    Throw in 1 trillion the first year + 7 years of 1.2 trillion (which may be optimistic, even without a recession), and that makes ~30 trillion by 2026.

    If we assume 2 years of 08-09 style recession at some point during that period, more like 33 trillion.
    Just interest on the debt could hit $1 trillion a year in less than a decade. That is more than we currently spend on defense.

    http://www.crfb.org/blogs/interest-s...urse-quadruple



    Importantly, these numbers are in many ways conservative. For one, they may understate the extent to which recent pro-growth but debt-busting legislation will put upward pressure on interest rates and thus interest payments.

    More significantly, they assume a current law baseline where the budget deal only increases spending for two years and large parts of the tax law expire after eight years or sooner. Under our "Alternative Scenario," which assumes policymakers borrow an additional $3.6 trillion through 2028, interest spending will rise to $1.05 trillion, or 3.6 percent of GDP, by 2028.

    Under either scenario, interest will easily be the fastest growing area of the budget. We estimate that under current law, it will increase by 267 percent in dollars between 2017 and 2028; no other category is over 100 percent. Under our alternative scenario, cumulative growth in interest is even higher at 301 percent; in other words, interest would quadruple between 2017 and 2028.

  28. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Even without a recession, the debt should reach 30T by about 2026, by my math.

    As for recession: from 08-09 revenues fell ~17%, and spending increased ~17%.

    ...people forget about the second part (recessions cause people to start falling down stairs onto the disability roll, for some reason)

    At present revenue and spending levels, that would mean well over a trillion in additional debt (per year of recession).
    Also remember that the debt doubled during the 8 years of Bush and the 8 years of Obama. If that continues we'll hit 40T by 2024. My guess is a sovereign debt crisis will interrupt this geometric increase well before we hit 40T. By the way the 10 yr just spiked to a new high.

    P.S. I'm not a big conspiracy guy but since most of the US debt is bought by governments I wonder if phones start ringing every time we get a spike in rates. "If you buy our debt we'll give you X,Y,Z."
    Last edited by Madison320; 10-04-2018 at 09:23 AM.

  29. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Just interest on the debt could hit $1 trillion a year in less than a decade. That is more than we currently spend on defense.
    I remember back in the old days when you used to say the debt was no big deal. Gosh, I wonder what changed?



    I went back and searched on some old Zippy posts and found this amusing one. Anyone see the problem?


    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan
    Congress, not the President determines spending. However, government spending has grown more slowly during Obama's presidency than anybody at least since Reagan. That is due in large part to the gridlock in Congress. The big bump in spending came with the 2009 budget during the economic crisis- and that was passed during and signed by the Bush administration.
    Here's a hint. In 2009 both the house and senate were controlled by democrats.
    Last edited by Madison320; 10-04-2018 at 08:44 AM.

  30. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Also remember that the debt doubled during the 8 years of Bush and the 8 years of Obama. If that continues we'll hit 40T by 2024. My guess is a sovereign debt crisis will interrupt this geometric increase well before we hit 40T. By the way the 10 yr just spiked to a new high.
    Indeed it did, 7 year high.

    On the other hand, I have it on the best authority that debt doesn't matter..

  31. #117
    COVID-19 Is Not Even Close To America's Biggest Problem

    The immediate reaction of our government to the virus threat was to spend massive amounts of money. …

    Our country has unbelievable levels of debt, and our debt is rising rapidly … The debt clock shows U.S. debt at $23 trillion (nearly 110% of the GDP) and unfunded liabilities of $77 trillion. … Boston University economist Laurence Kotlikoff, an expert on the national debt, says, "The true size of our fiscal problem is $222 trillion...20 times bigger than the official debt." … "The government has gone out of its way to run up a Ponzi scheme and keep evidence of that off the books by using language to make it appear that we have a small debt." …

    Things that are unsustainable cannot be sustained. Reality always bats last. …

    The government has spent all of its income and much more, so we should think of new spending programs as simply more debt being piled onto our children and grandchildren. …

    Governments that have tried this approach have ended up with money that looks like this 50-trillion-dollar bill from Zimbabwe. … In Venezuela, the inflation rate is around 53 million percent. … And with socialist destruction of the economy, there are far fewer things to buy. This kind of money does help with the toilet paper shortage, though.

    Governments can create money, but creating money does not create wealth. Wealth comes from productivity. Putting ink on small pieces of paper does not make wealth. …

    Without productive people, the true engine of wealth, Atlas would shrug, and the world would fall into … poverty. Anything that destroys productivity also destroys prosperity. … Politicians … don't have the ability to "provide" material things. They can only transfer money or borrow money. … take the productive accomplishments of one group and give them to another group, or they can borrow from our children to pay for current consumption. That's it. …

    The lesson in Aesop's fable "The Grasshopper and the Ants" … shows the wisdom of preparing to take care of yourself in hard times. In 200 years, Americans have moved a long, long way from self-reliance toward government dependence. …
    The assumption that the government will take care of your needs is "a narcotic, a subtle destroyer of the human spirit." If you have the childlike attitude that someone (government) should take care of you, it changes how you prepare for future problems. This attitude is why 25% of Americans do not even have a savings account, and 40% say they would have trouble paying an unexpected expense of $400. Americans are not prepared for trouble, and trouble is here. … This will greatly magnify the economic crisis … If economic activity is smothered for too long, many businesses will not survive. "Helicopter money" dropped by the government will not fix this problem. … the debt explosion and the increasing dependence on government are much more dangerous to our Republic than the Wuhan virus.

    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  32. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

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