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Thread: DJT Echoes Ron Paul................."I don't Trust U.S. Intel............"

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Wooden Indian View Post
    The one that really grinds my gears is that chick that spams how RP is only against Trump because it in some way makes him money, it's his business model, and in essence, he's exploiting liberty for a few bucks. He/She says this over and over. It's a damn lie and a malicious attack against RPs character, but continues to be spread on the forum that celebrates the man himself. Disgusting behavior, really. But, I suppose you can't expect much more from a rabid Trump supporter in the first place.
    Evidently I am not the only one here that lives in the real world. I am still huge fan of Ron but on this I also believe he is strategically wrong here. There will be no taking the country back after Hillary, particularly after her Supreme Court appointments. I could be wrong about Ron's reasons and perhaps under Hillary he believes the entire system collapsing as a solution. Regardless I believe neither are realistic.

    I think you and especially Ender are being disingenuous on this issue considering how far you deviate from Ron's platform on a number of issues. You guys are light years apart from Ron on a number of issues. From what I have been reading here my belief system is far closer to Ron's than many here. I just disagree with him in strategically how it can be achieved realistically within our borders.
    Last edited by kahless; 08-18-2016 at 07:54 PM.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.



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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Have you selectively forgotten that he wants 20K-30K American troops on the ground in Syria?

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-t...to-fight-isis/
    The West reared ISIS as a counter to oust Assad. Now that they have lashed out at Christians, Europeans and other civilized peoples, they are fair game. If Trump wants to destroy our Intelligence Agency's creation, so be it.

    Hopefully, if Trump becomes POTUS he will terminate the US's critical involvement in the Syrian Civil War. This horrible war would have been over months ago if not for Western meddling.

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    Here is some of their propaganda:

    I thought this was pretty good and the fact you posted it I thought you were coming around. Then I read your comment.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    Of course it's the individual vs. the collective, the intellectual substance has not changed. The relevant political issue on RPF and the liberty movement, has been how to dialogue about liberty to the public for the purposes of winning a national campaign. Given the defeats of Ron Paul in 2008 and 2012 trying to do so in the straightforward rational way, Rand Paul attempted a careful rhetorical approach, especially on foreign policy, that stressed pragmatic maneuvers, verbal compromises or empty gestures, etc, to produce a conciliatory relationship with the 'mainstream' political leadership and media (or statist establishment) towards promoting liberty.

    But while effective in minor instances, this approach failed to gain votes or to reach what should have been friendly voting blocs, and failed to succeed in changing the media's coverage or leadership's statism-driven policy framework. What did appear to work was the approach of the 'outsiders,' who did reach the voting blocs the Pauls should have reached, and engaged in open opposition to the MSM's biased practices and marginalization tactics. In the case of foreign policy, Trump got farther in advancing a mainly non, or less interventionist policy by "dressing it up" with nationalism, which was his version of finessing the issue, than Rand got with the rhetorical approach. Nationalism also appeared to work well as a presentation vehicle for non-collectivist trade (anti-TPP) and migration policy, for the purposes of engaging more voters.

    Liberty opposition to statism is intellectually persuasive to us, but is not emotionally compelling enough to overcome the statist frameworks influencing most of the public. We need neither embrace nationalism, nor demonize it, in order to use it as a tactic to get votes for liberty candidates and policies. Its use in foreign policy, as one example, "sells" intervention in a manner a straightforward anti-war appeal does not, because 'America First' displaces the emotional memes pushed by the War party to prioritize foreign meddling.

    Our movement reached a maximum 10% plateau with the Pauls pursuing an issues-only, rationalistic approach in defacto educational campaigns. Absent solving the framework-changing dynamic above, we apparently can only educate that 10%, or liberty base vote. Going beyond that base will require getting past the status quo frameworks, and getting past the establishment obstacles that set and enforce those frameworks. That is why the future of the movement depends on adding such strategic political competences to our efforts, not just concentrating on the intellectual factors.

    At the least, we can't just keep ridiculing the LP for being a failure because they supposedly lack those competencies, while giving the failures of the Paul candidacies a pass, because we want to ignore developing those competencies. The answer is not to demonize Trump, but to take cues from his and similar successful case examples to learn how to engage reachable voting blocs, how to win primary contests, and how to defeat media bias.
    We can conclude that trump - and I would credit trump, not the trump campaign or any campaign strategist - was successful in snatching the Republican nomination.

    We will know in a few months whether it translates into general election victory. It's not looking good for trump, despite the fact he's running against the most unlovable Democrat candidate ever (excepting possibly himself.)

    In fact, it's been 16 years since a non-incumbent has managed to be victorious in both the Republican primaries and the general election. Given the sharp divide between the increasingly moronic Republican minority and the electorate at large, it may be insurmountable to reconcile the two. i.e., the greater the Republican nominee's landslide in the primaries, the bigger the Democrat victory in the general.
    Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by asurfaholic View Post
    Ban
    Free Mordan!

    Amazing how some of the loudest and most frequent posters here that are light years from the beliefs of Ron and Rand never get banned. Yet a poster that favors Trump say he disagrees with Ron's non-support, he gets banned. Instead of name calling him and banning him that anti-Trump contingent should try to convince him why he is wrong. Isn't that what this forum is for?
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    ...my belief system is far closer to Ron's than many here.
    @Natural Citizen is the strictest libertarian though. You two should arm wrestle.
    Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    I think you and especially Ender are being disingenuous on this issue considering how far you deviate from Ron's platform on a number of issues. You guys are light years apart from Ron on a number of issues. From what I have been reading here my belief system is far closer to Ron's than many here.
    Oh, is that so? Now, will you make a claim like that then run off or will you "put up", so to speak? I bolded the YOU because I want you to please, fill me in on my number of views that are "light years" apart from The Good Doctor. This should be good.

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Wooden Indian View Post
    Oh, is that so? Now, will you make a claim like that then run off or will you "put up", so to speak? I bolded the YOU because I want you to please, fill me in on my number of views that are "light years" apart from The Good Doctor. This should be good.
    The point being you disagree with Ron sometimes to. I do not have an issue with people that disagree with Ron on some issues. Everyone here probably has one issue here or there where they are going to disagree. Like you below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wooden Indian View Post
    This is where I kinda disagree with Ron. The 14th Amenment and The Civil Rights Act (like them or not) DO make this a Federal matter, imo. I can't see any other way around that......
    What you are doing now is applying a different standard to people that disagree with Ron if the subject has anything to do with Trump. Like I said you and Ender are being disingenuous on those that disagree with Ron where it relates to Trump since both of you have in forum stated your disagree with Ron here or there.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  11. #69

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    The West reared ISIS as a counter to oust Assad.
    Simply put, no. That's a conspiracy theory that contains a partial truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    The West reared ISIS as a counter to oust Assad. Now that they have lashed out at Christians, Europeans and other civilized peoples, they are fair game.
    True but to be more precise, it was DGP's neocon masters-Israeli-Saudi alliance that fostered violent jihadi groups to oust Assad.

    But track is almost exact same as was done in 70-80s, DGP's neocon masters-Israeli-Saudi alliance funded/armed radical Islamist Jihadis to oust Russians in Afghanistan and a decade later same jihadis became fair game as you put it.

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    The point being you disagree with Ron sometimes to. I do not have an issue with people that disagree with Ron on some issues. Everyone here probably has one issue here or there where they are going to disagree. Like you below.



    What you are doing now is applying a different standard to people that disagree with Ron if the subject has anything to do with Trump. Like I said you and Ender are being disingenuous on those that disagree with Ron where it relates to Trump since both of you have in forum stated your disagree with Ron here or there.
    I believe your computer must have crashed while attempting to show me where I disagree with Ron on "a number" of policies. Do you need more time or would you like to retract that statement?



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Wooden Indian View Post
    I believe your computer must have crashed while attempting to show me where I disagree with Ron on "a number" of policies. Do you need more time or would you like to retract that statement?
    I posted what I found from a quick search right here just like you asked.
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6290101

    Here it is again in your own words which I do not have a problem with but evidently you do if it was someone else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wooden Indian View Post
    This is where I kinda disagree with Ron. The 14th Amenment and The Civil Rights Act (like them or not) DO make this a Federal matter, imo. I can't see any other way around that......
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Wooden Indian View Post
    I believe your computer must have crashed while attempting to show me where I disagree with Ron on "a number" of policies. Do you need more time or would you like to retract that statement?
    Apparently his number is 1 ...
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    Apparently his number is 1 ...
    Here you go wise girl, not even trying, here is another where he disagrees with Ron on states rights over the gay marriage issue.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/archive...t-369833.html?
    Quote Originally Posted by Wooden Indian
    I disagree on the gay marriage issue.

    I have always felt that the 14th Amendment (All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.) made same sex marriage a Federal matter and removes the state's right to deny to any U.S. citizen this basic right and exercise of freedom.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Here you go wise girl, not even trying, here is another where he disagrees with Ron on states rights over the gay marriage issue.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/archive...t-369833.html?
    That was the same issue, sister.

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Wooden Indian View Post
    That was the same issue, sister.
    I suppose I can search more but the fact is it does not matter. The point has been made that you are hypocritical in accusing others with not agreeing with Ron 100% when you in fact do not agree with Ron 100% of the time.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    The point being you disagree with Ron sometimes to. I do not have an issue with people that disagree with Ron on some issues. Everyone here probably has one issue here or there where they are going to disagree. Like you below.



    What you are doing now is applying a different standard to people that disagree with Ron if the subject has anything to do with Trump. Like I said you and Ender are being disingenuous on those that disagree with Ron where it relates to Trump since both of you have in forum stated your disagree with Ron here or there.
    it is YOU who are disingenuous.
    There is no spoon.

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    it is YOU who are disingenuous.
    How is that?

    ---

    I do not know why I bother it is like replying to the disqus spam "you could make $100 hour following these 3 easy steps".
    Last edited by kahless; 08-19-2016 at 10:53 PM.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    How is that?

    ---

    I do not know why I bother it is like replying to the disqus spam "you could make $100 hour following these 3 easy steps".
    Hmmmm......

    By inferring that Ron Paul is against Trump because he has to make money?

    Worst thing I've heard from a so-called Ron Paul supporter on a Ron Paul Forum.
    There is no spoon.



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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by OP
    “Not so much from the people that have been doing it for our country,” Trump responded. “I mean, look what’s happened over the last 10 years. … It’s been catastrophic.

    “Very easy to use them, but I won't use them, because they’ve made such bad decisions,” he said, pointing to apparent intelligence failures ahead of the United States's 2003 invasion of Iraq. At the time, George W. Bush administration officials appeared convinced that Saddam Hussein’s government was creating weapons of mass destruction, though that was not the case.

    “If we would have never touched it, it would have been a lot better,” Trump said.
    That's funny, since Trump endorsed the Iraq War in 2003.

    ....stating that it was a "tremendous sucess," and that he was curious to see what WMDs they'd find.

    But I guess he had a "change of heart" since then, becoming a big big non-interventionist and stuff...

    ...well, maybe since 2011 actually, when he endorsed the invasion of Libya, on the grounds that Qaddafi was killing his own people.

    ...the same grounds that Obama/Clinton used for Libya.

    ....and Syria.

    ....to which intervention Trump would also, no doubt, have been a yuge yuge opponent.

    Quote Originally Posted by adissa View Post
    The real question is, when will Ron Paul realize that Donald Trump is just like him?
    Will the white nationalists coopting the liberty movement succeed in convincing gullible people that that's true?

    Time will tell, I suppose.

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Hmmmm......

    By inferring that Ron Paul is against Trump because he has to make money?

    Worst thing I've heard from a so-called Ron Paul supporter on a Ron Paul Forum.
    Coming from a person that has totally perverted the beliefs of the Pauls I take your criticism as a compliment. You are a complete fraud as a Paul supporter and are part of the compromising of this forum.

    Here is the full context of my belief of why Ron strategically is not supporting Trump:

    As far as Ron's opinion he maybe hoping for a Hillary Presidency so his son could make a run for it in 2020. The Republican party would be looking for a statesman after an embarrassing loss with Trump. Also it would be for the added benefit that Ron's media empire would be more successful under opposition with a Clinton Presidency. If Trump wins and implements many of the policies or similar policies to the Paul's there would not be much of market for his media product or his son in 2020.

    You see I live in the real world and not in your fantasy land.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Coming from a person that has totally perverted the beliefs of the Pauls I take your criticism as a compliment. You are a complete fraud as a Paul supporter and are part of the compromising of this forum.

    Here is the full context of my belief of why Ron strategically is not supporting Trump:

    As far as Ron's opinion he maybe hoping for a Hillary Presidency so his son could make a run for it in 2020. The Republican party would be looking for a statesman after an embarrassing loss with Trump. Also it would be for the added benefit that Ron's media empire would be more successful under opposition with a Clinton Presidency. If Trump wins and implements many of the policies or similar policies to the Paul's there would not be much of market for his media product or his son in 2020.

    You see I live in the real world and not in your fantasy land.
    You are divorced from reality if you think that Ron Paul is like Trump and cares more about his political ambitions and profit then his country. Ron Paul spent the majority of his life fighting to make our country better, Trump spent the majority of his life nickel and diming contractors and small business by not paying his bills and supporting democrats.

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    You are divorced from reality if you think that Ron Paul is like Trump
    I never said that but rather there are many policy positions that are similar or overlap with the Pauls. Compared to Hillary where there is no matching positions so the choice is a no brainer. There will be no taking the country back with Hillary, the Supreme Court will be stacked against any future Republican.

    Paul Inc may continue as a profitable opposition business but as far as legislative victories and the efforts of grassroots here you may as well stick a fork in it if Hillary becomes President. Resistance will be futile.
    Last edited by kahless; 08-20-2016 at 02:06 AM.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    I never said that but rather there are many policy positions that are similar or overlap with the Pauls. Compared to Hillary where there is no matching positions so the choice is a no brainer. There will be no taking the country back with Hillary, the Supreme Court will be stacked against any future Republican.

    Paul Inc may continue as a profitable opposition business but as far as legislative victories and the efforts of grassroots here you may as well stick a fork in it if Hillary becomes President. Resistance will be futile.
    There are many positions you say overlap with the Pauls, but you've had over a year and still can't list anything substantial.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  30. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    Trump is Ron Paul with realism and not afraid to use his guns when attacked.
    um no. nothing like ron at all. u made me spit coke out muh nose.

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by satchelmcqueen View Post
    um no. nothing like ron at all. u made me spit coke out muh nose.
    Tisk tisk, you shouldn't be putting coke up your nose in the first place.

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