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Thread: On foreign policy, Donald Trump again proves he's the adult - despite the media bias | Mulshin

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    On foreign policy, Donald Trump again proves he's the adult - despite the media bias | Mulshin

    Donald Trump says he is being treated unfairly by the media.

    The Associated Press says he's correct.

    The folks at the AP would never say that directly of course. But consider this article previewing Trump's big foreign-policy speech Monday in Ohio (italics mine).

    "He's struggled to stay on message and has consistently overshadowed his policy rollouts, including an economic speech last week, with provocative statements, including falsely declaring that President Barack Obama was the 'founder' of the Islamic State."

    Falsely? That's the reporter's opinion, not objective fact.

    The statement in question could be considered false only if the listener construed Trump's word as an accusation that Obama had spent the past few years running around Syria recruiting troops for ISIS – and had somehow kept it from the public.

    That's nonsensical. Trump later labeled his own words as "sarcastic." His contention was clearly that the actions of Obama as president and of Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State led to the rise of ISIS.

    There's plenty of support for that statement. In a recent article in Chronicles, Mideast expert Jim Jatras noted the anti-Trump bias evident in the coverage of that comment:

    "As of this writing, not one American media source of which this writer is aware has brought up in relation to Trump's claims the August 2012 report from the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) stating that 'there is the possibility of establishing a declared or undeclared Salafist principality in Eastern Syria, and this is exactly what the supporting powers to the opposition want, in order to isolate the Syrian regime.'"

    Those "supporting powers' include the U.S. Perhaps Clinton and Obama didn't intend for the Islamic extremists to set up an Islamic State. But that's what happened.

    Does that mean they are "co-founders" of ISIS?

    On foreign policy, Trump goes back to the future

    On foreign policy, Trump goes back to the future

    The media spent last week covering the social life of Donald Trump and ignoring remarks Trump made offering a view of what a conservative foreign policy would have looked like post-9/11

    I'll leave that for you to decide.

    As for me, since I'm an opinion columnist I'll give you my opinion of how the media should have reacted to Trump's statement.

    Someone should have asked him why he didn't include George W. Bush among the co-founders.

    In that speech, Trump made it clear once again that he ranks his fellow Republican among the biggest bunglers in the Mideast.

    He went out of his way to repudiate the theory of "nation-building" in the Mideast that began with Bush in Iraq and was carried on by Obama and Clinton in Libya, Egypt and Syria.

    He even quoted his own statement to Esquire Magazine predicting in 2004 that Bush's adventure in bringing democracy to Iraq would be a failure:

    "Two minutes after we leave, there's going to be a revolution, and the meanest, toughest, smartest, most vicious guy will take over," Trump said.

    The Donald certainly got that right. And he got a lot more right on Monday in what was billed as his major foreign-policy address.

    One such moment came when he said in no uncertain terms that he wants to forge an alliance with Russia to chase ISIS out of Syria and Iraq.

    According to Jatras, the Clinton camp is on the opposite side of that issue.

    "With the kind of people coming in with Clinton, I think we could look at a ratcheting up of tension and a much stronger confrontation with Moscow," he said.

    Jatras said that when it comes to ISIS, Clinton has relied on advisers who are more concerned with ousting Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad than defeating the Islamic state.

    "I think she would be getting us further into the Syrian quagmire." Jim Jatras on Hillary

    "I think she would be getting us further into the Syrian quagmire," he said.

    So do I. If there's any evidence Clinton has learned from her mistakes in Libya and Syria, I've yet to see it.

    Meanwhile Trump is making it clear he's learned from her mistakes as well as Obama's and Bush's.

    Next to Jeb Bush, Donald Trump sounds positively sane on foreign policy | Mulshine

    Next to Jeb Bush, Donald Trump sounds positively sane on foreign policy | Mulshine

    Jeb Bush wants to set up a no-fly zone to defeat an enemy that has no air force; compared to him Donald Trump is a foreign-policy genius.

    "If I become president, the era of nation-building will be brought to a very swift and decisive end," he said. "Our new approach must be to halt the spread of radical Islam.

    "All actions should be oriented around this goal, and any country that shares this goal will be our ally."

    This is a fascinating debate – or at least it should be. We are seeing two completely contrasting views of foreign policy.

    Trump's view is that the country should stop getting in pointless wars and should have good relations with the only other superpower on the planet. I don't see how any intelligent adult could disagree.

    But that view is being portrayed in the media as somehow irresponsible. Meanwhile Clinton has been getting a free ride.

    When it comes to that "founder" issue, for example, the reporters could have gone back and looked at how her actions did or did not lead to the rise of ISIS.

    That's what journalists are supposed to do.

    I wish they'd start doing it.

    PLUS: One Hillary Clinton ally on the Syria question is former CIA Director Mike Morell. As former CIA agent Larry Johnson writes here, the views these people have about provoking Russia over Syria are insane:

    "With respect to Syria I will repeat a point I have made previously. Part of the blame for the bloody civil war there lies with Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama and has been made more deadly and bloody because Obama/Clinton helped provide weapons and training to radical Islamists. Come to think of it, Mike Morell was part of that process. Besides calling into question his judgment let me add to the bill of particulars that he also is a war criminal.

    "What, under other circumstances would be funny incident, is listening to Mike Morell desperately try to smear Donald Trump as dangerous, ignorant and reckless while he, Morell, is calling for killing Russians in Syria who are there at the express and legal invitation of recognized state. That, boys and girls, is called an act of war. It is the kind of provocation that would fully entitle Russia to retaliate militarily against the United States. So let me get this straight, Morell wants us to think he is the voice of reason and moderation, like Hillary Clinton, and he wants to start a fight with a nuclear power? Yeah, that's brilliant judgment."

    AND -MORE FROM AMERICAN PRAVDA: I'm beginning to think the initials A.P. stand for "American Pravda." Check out this Clinton campaign press release masquerading as an objective analysis of the Trump foreign-policy position.

    Check this obviously slanted prose on Trump's argument that Obama and Clinton bungled by backing rebels and trying to promote democracy in Syrian and Libya:

    "While Trump is right that Libya, Syria and Egypt appeared more stable seven years ago, his analysis leaves out the simmering resentment for autocratic governments that would bubble over during the 2011 Arab Spring. That cannot be ascribed to Obama and Clinton."

    This might as well have been written by Clinton's speechwriters. That line about the "simmering resentment for autocratic governments" has been used by every inside-the-Beltway foreign-policy "expert" trying to justify American intervention in events that are none of our business.

    The plain fact is that both Obama and Clinton supported through violence rebellions in both Libya and Syria that turned out disastrously.

    If the AP wants to run opinion pieces on Syrian and Libya, I'd suggest this 2012 column of mine in which I predicted the debacle that would ensue.

    Not that this was difficult. Anyone with a brain could see that the idea of spreading democracy in the Mideast was a disaster after the Iraq War.

    If the AP reporters were any good, they would have been writing that story four years ago.

    Instead they're writing Clinton press releases.

    http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/...es_hes_th.html



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    This is the Ron Paul forums, we know all about being untreated fairly by the media. Trump was never forgotten to be put on polls, never not named, or all the other dirty tricks Ron and also Rand suffered.

    Trump getting near constant air time for over a year is not being untreated fairly. Trump flip flops and says so much crazy $#@! there is no way to think of him as an adult.
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

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    Last edited by spudea; 08-16-2016 at 04:48 PM.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  6. #5

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...52988774514688

    Last edited by CPUd; 08-16-2016 at 05:02 PM.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  7. #6
    Oh noes desparation ^^^

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
    This is the Ron Paul forums, we know all about being untreated fairly by the media. Trump was never forgotten to be put on polls, never not named, or all the other dirty tricks Ron and also Rand suffered.

    Trump getting near constant air time for over a year is not being untreated fairly. Trump flip flops and says so much crazy $#@! there is no way to think of him as an adult.
    I keep saying this but few listen.
    There is no spoon.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
    This is the Ron Paul forums, we know all about being untreated fairly by the media. Trump was never forgotten to be put on polls, never not named, or all the other dirty tricks Ron and also Rand suffered.

    Trump getting near constant air time for over a year is not being untreated fairly. Trump flip flops and says so much crazy $#@! there is no way to think of him as an adult.
    and still better than hillary. Sad but true
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it."
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    "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by puppetmaster View Post
    and still better than hillary. Sad but true
    I have to agree with ya on that one, At least no one died with Trump compared with Hillary, no wonder the NeoCon old hags like them love her.

  12. #10
    anti-Trumpers don't get it. sad!!

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by puppetmaster View Post
    and still better than hillary. Sad but true
    Possibly- but the "possibly" is scarier than hell. This is the worst election I have ever known of; interesting days ahead.
    Last edited by Ender; 08-17-2016 at 11:51 AM.
    There is no spoon.

  14. #12
    AND -MORE FROM AMERICAN PRAVDA: I'm beginning to think the initials A.P. stand for "American Pravda."
    Yes, this^^ AP doesn't do much more than print the press releases and whatnot that they're given by TPTB in die partei.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
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  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Possibly- but the "possibly" is scary than hell. This is the worst election I have ever known of; interesting days ahead.
    IMO, the big difference between this and the cycles since 1980 or so is that Trump and Billary aren't hiding behind doublespeak as much as they used to. Boobus not only doesn't care, he wants to hear the Big Lies and soothing bull$#@!. SMFH. :/
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
    This is the Ron Paul forums, we know all about being untreated fairly by the media. Trump was never forgotten to be put on polls, never not named, or all the other dirty tricks Ron and also Rand suffered.

    Trump getting near constant air time for over a year is not being untreated fairly. Trump flip flops and says so much crazy $#@! there is no way to think of him as an adult.
    The limitation of many on RPF is that they think media unfairness begins and ends with the Pauls. The reality is that it is performed, with variations, on all third party or alternative major party candidates. In this cycle, candidates from Sanders to Carson got the shaft (e.g., Carson in several cases got the least time in the debates, even when he was in second place). But the media couldn't credibly leave Trump out of the polls because of his already established 'yuuuge' name recognition and money. The whole cover basis behind them pushing Jeb, after all, was the name and money behind him, so they were trapped.

    The MSM nonetheless kept trying to marginalize or deflate him nearly every other way, but found none of the flaps they hyped up took him out or kept him down, and none of the other candidates could be pumped up enough to stop him. Trump getting cast as a dangerous buffoon over the air for over a year, is the definition of not being treated fairly. This charge was being repeated even as Trump was 'outfoxing' FOX and the other networks (and candidates, who declined getting similar airtime) by giving so many interviews to benefit his campaign---something an 'adult child' could not pull off.

    They are currently trying to bury Trump with rigged polling that over samples Democrats and under samples independents (similar to the sampling dirty tricks pulled months ago on Rand), as well as blacking out how big his rally crowds are compared to Clinton's (as they did with Ron) so yes, they have also treated Trump unfairly. Finally, it is hard to to say somebody is not an adult when they have beaten all the other adults, and got more adults to vote for him as the GOP party nominee than anybody else in primary history. This is what I keep saying, but few listen.
    Last edited by Peace&Freedom; 08-17-2016 at 01:51 AM.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    The media couldn't credibly leave Trump out of polls because of his already established 'yuuuge' name recognition and money. The whole cover basis behind them pushing Jeb, after all, was the name and money behind him, so they were trapped. The MSM nonetheless kept trying to marginalize or deflate him nearly every other way, but found none of the flaps they hyped up took him out or kept him down, and none of the other candidates could be pumped up enough to stop him. Trump getting cast as a dangerous buffoon over the air for over a year, is the definition of not being treated fairly.

    They are currently trying to bury Trump with rigged polling that over samples Democrats and under samples independents (similar to the sampling dirty tricks pulled months ago on Rand), as well as blacking out how big his rally crowds are compared to Clinton's (as they did with Ron) so yes, they have also treated Trump unfairly. Finally, it is hard to to say somebody is not an adult when they have beaten all the other adults, and got more adults to vote for him as the GOP party nominee than anybody else in primary history. This is what I keep saying, but few listen.
    Trump also has energized the base to come out and vote against him in record numbers:



    What should be a "fair" sample percentage of Democrats?
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post

    What should be a "fair" sample percentage of Democrats?
    According to the July Gallup poll, the electorate self-identifies this way:

    Republican 28%
    Independent 42%
    Democrat 28%

    So the election polling should sample or weigh respondents closer to these percentages.

    For example:
    http://endingthefed.com/trump-leadin...00-voters.html
    Last edited by Peace&Freedom; 08-17-2016 at 02:08 AM.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    According to the July Gallup poll, the electorate self-identifies this way:

    Republican 28%
    Independent 42%
    Democrat 28%

    So the election polling should sample or weigh respondents closer to these percentages.

    For example:
    http://endingthefed.com/trump-leadin...00-voters.html

    On weighting by party ID, suppose you poll a representative sample and get 28-28 party ID, and apply some weight based on that result. Suppose you poll the same sample the next day and get 30-26, but the raw score for candidates A vs B is the same as the previous day's poll. If the same weight is applied to these results, it wouldn't be reflective of the population.

    Change party ID to gender and you don't have this problem, as a person's gender (normally) doesn't change from day to day.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Sorry.

    I will give him credit though. He does seem steadfast in his opposition to leaving Iraq. Like good ol' 99 years McCain. Oh hey what do you know, they endorsed each other.

  22. #19

    Trump's Foreign Policy is Foreign Piracy

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Yeah, that's all well and good, except for the fact that Trump also believes we should "bomb the $#@!" out of certain countries and take their oil.
    "Then David said to the Philistine, 'You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of Yahweh of hosts, the God of the battle lines of Israel, Whom you have reproached.'" - 1 Samuel 17:45

    "May future generations look back on our work and say that these were men and women who, in moment of great crisis, stood up to their politicians, the opinion-makers, and the Establishment, and saved their country." - Dr. Ron Paul

  23. #20
    Donald trump does not strike me as someone who will take leadership and fix our foreign policy problems. This is election time, the mouths are running 100 mph and they will say anything now. I'm past that. Trumps true colors are not very hard to see if you can look past whatever it is that trump lovers see now...just have to go back a couple years.
    No - No - No - No
    2016

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    On weighting by party ID, suppose you poll a representative sample and get 28-28 party ID, and apply some weight based on that result. Suppose you poll the same sample the next day and get 30-26, but the raw score for candidates A vs B is the same as the previous day's poll. If the same weight is applied to these results, it wouldn't be reflective of the population.

    Change party ID to gender and you don't have this problem, as a person's gender (normally) doesn't change from day to day.
    That's the issue, independents are mainly not being polled to begin with, to even be available to be weighed later, let alone to 42%. And recent polls have already been caught oversampling Democrats, without weight adjustments. And most polls to this point are still based on registered voters instead of likely voters, which also skews the poll outcome Democratic (as there are generally more registered Democrats who don't vote than registered Republicans who don't vote).
    Last edited by Peace&Freedom; 08-17-2016 at 06:56 AM.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/

  25. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
    This is the Ron Paul forums, we know all about being untreated fairly by the media. Trump was never forgotten to be put on polls, never not named, or all the other dirty tricks Ron and also Rand suffered.

    Trump getting near constant air time for over a year is not being untreated fairly. Trump flip flops and says so much crazy $#@! there is no way to think of him as an adult.
    It is true that Trump has flip flopped liked Romney.

    It is also true that the media misrepresents him purposefully and that is treating him unfairly.
    Citizen of Arizona
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    I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    That's the issue, independents are mainly not being polled to begin with, to even be available to be weighed later, let alone to 42%. And recent polls have already been caught oversampling Democrats, without weight adjustments. And most polls to this point are still based on registered voters instead of likely voters, which also skews the poll outcome Democratic (as there are generally more registered Democrats who don't vote than registered Republicans who don't vote).
    How would they know they are "oversampling Democrats" if they are taking a random sample?
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    How would they know they are "oversampling Democrats" if they are taking a random sample?
    If they don't adjust the results from Democrat respondents where they exceed the known party percentages in the population, they will be over sampling. If they rely on screening only for registered voters, they will be over sampling Democrats. Most polling organizations know this. So, if they are oversampling anyway, how do we know they are taking a 'random' sample?
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    If they don't adjust the results from Democrat respondents where they exceed the known party percentages in the population, they will be over sampling. If they rely on screening only for registered voters, they will be over sampling Democrats. Most polling organizations know this. So, if they are oversampling anyway, how do we know they are taking a 'random' sample?
    There are several different methods to do random polling. The polling firm will include it in their published methodology. There's no real way to know the percentage of a population who identifies with a given political party. It could change from one day to the next. That's why they rarely use it to weight the results. Gender, age, location, those are factors that are relatively stable, and easier to determine; those can be used to weigh a sample to a population.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  30. #26

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    There are several different methods to do random polling. The polling firm will include it in their published methodology. There's no real way to know the percentage of a population who identifies with a given political party. It could change from one day to the next. That's why they rarely use it to weight the results. Gender, age, location, those are factors that are relatively stable, and easier to determine; those can be used to weigh a sample to a population.
    I worked at the Harris poll. Party identification percentages were one of the factors weighed because it is stable over the short to medium term---it may change over years, but not "from one day to the next":

    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    I worked at the Harris poll. Party identification percentages were one of the factors weighed because it is stable over the short to medium term---it may change over years, but not "from one day to the next":

    Look at that other Gallup poll you linked that polls every 2-4 weeks. It is literally different every time they poll.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    Look at that other Gallup poll you linked that polls every 2-4 weeks. It is literally different every time they poll.
    By a digit or two. The overall average of roughly 28-30/28-30/40-42 has been stable for years. The preponderance of polls do not even partially incorporate the average for independents in the voting population, that's just a fact.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    By a digit or two. The overall average of roughly 28-30/28-30/40-42 has been stable for years. The preponderance of polls do not even partially incorporate the average for independents in the voting population, that's just a fact.
    This is what they are usually based on:
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

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