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Thread: Can Bitfinex Really Impose a $72 Million Theft on Its Customers?

  1. #1

    Can Bitfinex Really Impose a $72 Million Theft on Its Customers?

    I have real issues with Bitfinex taking my USD holdings because they were unable to secure other people's BTC holdings.





    Can Bitfinex Really Impose a $72 Million Theft on Its Customers?



    August 15, 2016, 6:07 AM EDT
    “I feel like I was robbed,” one investor said.


    Crypto-currency exchange Bitfinex‘s plan to impose losses on all its trading clients for the theft by hackers of $72 million in Bitcoin rests on two flawed pillars, according to lawyers.
    The Hong Kong-based exchange said on Aug. 2 that hackers had stolen 119,756 bitcoins from some clients’ accounts, the second-biggest such hack in dollar terms, and later said it would spread the losses across all its customers, whether or not they had been hacked or even held bitcoin.
    It said customers would forfeit 36% of their holdings and be given “BFX tokens” instead that could be redeemed by the exchange or converted to shares in its parent company iFinex.
    Both elements of the plan are open to legal challenge, lawyers said.
    Imposing losses on customers who were not hacked appears to go against the company’s terms of service, said Ryan Straus, a Fenwick & West lawyer who advises financial technology companies on regulation and co-authored the U.S. chapter of a book on bitcoin law.
    The terms state “bitcoins in your multi-signature wallets belong to and are owned by you,” which Straus said implied a special banking relationship with clients that the Bitfinex plan would breach.
    “The depository … is obligated to return, on demand, the same monetary objects deposited,” he said, quoting a line from his book.
    The exchange’s tokens could also be problematic, said Zach Zweihorn, a lawyer at DavisPolk who specializes in U.S. securities and trading laws.
    The way they are currently being described – redeemable by the exchange or convertible to shares in iFinex – places them somewhere between a bond and a security and makes it highly likely that issuing them and trading them would require licenses in the U.S. that Bitfinex doesn’t have.
    “If they are issuing an equity interest in their parent company, I don’t really think the fact that it’s evidenced through an electronic token … really changes the analysis of whether it’s a security,” said Zweihorn.
    The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission did not return a request for comment.
    Bitfinex did not respond to requests for comment on either issue.
    “ROBBED”
    Bitfinex‘s website acknowledges there are “protocol level details” still to be worked out for the tokens, and that U.S. residents can sell but not buy them for the time being.
    “I feel like I was robbed,” a 33 year-old investor who had a five-figure U.S. dollar amount on the platform told Reuters.
    He said he took a 36% “haircut” across all assets, including U.S. dollar reserves, and as a U.S. trader he couldn’t properly deal in the IOU token.
    “Basically they took customers’ funds in order to try to stay afloat. Nowhere in their terms of service did it mention that this was a possibility,” said the user, who works in the financial services industry.
    Bitfinex is nevertheless hoping that traders will be patient and accept that they won’t get a better deal if legal challenges force it into liquidation.
    “This is the closest approximation to what would happen in a liquidation context,” it told traders in a blog post a week ago, while the tokens gave them some hope of ultimately recovering their losses.
    Traders will be aware of the fate of Tokyo-based crypto-currency exchange Mt Gox, which suffered the biggest bitcoin theft of all time in 2014, and consequently went bankrupt. Traders have not recovered any losses, and court proceedings are still ongoing.

    “People are afraid to see their assets completely frozen if they sue Bitfinex too early,” said 28-year-old Nathan Bourgeois, who is based in France and moderates a 2,000-member traders’ messaging group called Whaleclub under the username dr Helmut.
    He said he thought people would agree to the deal if there was a chance of getting some of their money back.
    But Patrick Murck, a fellow at Harvard University’s Berkman Klein Center for Internet & Society, said

    the Bitfinex plan was unlikely to survive a legal challenge.


    “It might be a pyrrhic victory. You might still end up with less money,” said Murck, who is also co-founder of the Bitcoin Foundation and its former general counsel, but the “odds are fairly low” that nobody will test it in court.
    “It takes one grumpy hold-out … to blow the whole thing up,” he said.
    Last edited by presence; 08-15-2016 at 11:39 AM.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...




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  3. #2
    Bitcoin needs government regulation!

  4. #3
    Thus my hesitancy to engage in this market. Not that we need government regulation; just that the marketplace is too nascent for my tastes. These sorts of problems need to work their way through.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  5. #4
    Beware The Bitcoin Bail-In

    By The Sovereign Investor on August 15, 2016 4:18 pm in Technology

    Beware The Bitcoin Bail-In by Ted Bauman
    Imagine that, just before you read this article, you received an email from a financial institution where you have a substantial trading account…
    The email said other accounts had been hacked, but not yours. Nevertheless, the financial institution was deducting 36% of your holdings and replacing them with shares in its parent company — shares that you can’t trade. You just have to hold them and hope for the best.
    How would you feel? How do you feel just imagining it?
    Probably a lot worse than the clients of Cypriot banks, who had to forfeit between 6.75% and 9.9% of their account holdings as part of the infamous “bail-in” of 2013. Besides the fact that the percentage is much larger, your bail-in was totally unexpected. Nobody saw it coming.
    And there’s nobody to whom you can complain. The financial institution is unregulated. There’s no backstop and no clear rules. You’re entirely on your own.
    That’s the situation increasing numbers of us are in these days … a situation we were promised wouldn’t happen.
    Photo by ARIZMONTEROJAZ Bitter Bitcoin Irony

    The “genesis block” of bitcoin — the very first block of that cryptocurrency’s blockchain — contains the following statement in hexadecimal code: “The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks.” That was the London newspaper’s headline on that date.
    The reference is unmistakable: Fiat currencies and mainstream banks are unsafe. If something goes wrong, your money may be on the hook. Bitcoin is the answer. As one analyst put it:
    Bitcoin presented a choice that has never existed before. Its mysterious creator Satoshi Nakamoto described it as “a distributed system with no single point of failure” where “users hold the crypto-keys to their own money and transact directly with one another, with the help of the P2P network to check for double-spending.” The white paper published under pseudonym was a promise. Bitcoin, which became operational in 2009, was its fulfillment. The promise was to build security through cryptographic proof, replacing third-party trust and creating networks resilient to counter-party risk.
    That promise is surely a bitter irony for customers of Hong Kong-based bitcoin exchange Bitfinex, who have lost more than one-third of their money as a result of a hack.
    Stealing From Clients: Not Just for Banks Anymore

    On August 2, Bitfinex said that hackers had stolen 119,756 bitcoins from some clients’ accounts. It was the second-biggest such hack in dollar terms, after the 2014 hack of bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox.

    Bitfinex later said it would spread the losses across all its customers, whether or not they had been hacked — or even held bitcoin. Customers would forfeit 36% of their holdings. As compensation, they’d receive “BFX tokens” that could be redeemed by the exchange someday, or converted to shares in its parent company.
    It’s exactly the same sort of “haircut” that Cypriot bank customers received in 2013, with one essential difference: It’s unilateral and not governed by any law. Bitfinex just made it up.
    Bitfinex’s terms of service say “bitcoins in your multi-signature wallets belong to and are owned by you.” That’s a clear statement of a banking relationship with its clients, in terms of which “the depository … is obligated to return, on demand, the same monetary objects deposited.” The 36% haircut of its clients, in other words, is “theft” as defined by Bitfinex.
    Moreover, compensatory “tokens” redeemable by the exchange or convertible to shares are something between a bond and a security. In the U.S. at least, that requires licenses that Bitfinex doesn’t have.
    Free Markets Can Be Costly…

    So what are Bitfinex clients to do?
    Unregulated cryptocurrency exchanges like Bitfinex exist in the free-market nirvana we’re told is the solution to all of our problems. Bitfinex is free to innovate … as it has clearly done in response to this hack.
    In this regulation-free context, Bitfinex clients have the choice of accepting the company’s 36% fait accompli or suing.


    But if just one client goes to court,
    the company will almost certainly be placed in receivership,
    and all accounts will be frozen pending the outcome.



    Given that clients of cryptocurrency exchange Mt. Gox — which suffered the biggest bitcoin theft of all time in 2014 — are still waiting to be made whole pending ongoing court proceedings, that isn’t much of a choice.
    …But They Remain the Only Answer

    Many of us love bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. They promise the freedom we all desire.
    But large-scale trading of cryptocurrencies has recreated the exact problem bitcoin was meant to solve: a “single point of failure.” Instead of “users hold(ing) the crypto-keys to their own money and transact(ing) directly with one another,” the global cryptocurrency market is dominated by massive exchanges that operate exactly like banks, except that they are unregulated and make their own rules.
    A while back I wrote an article about the looming danger of blockchain-based currencies. They promise to do away with banks, but would be vulnerable to arbitrary government interference … and confiscation.
    What are we to do, then?
    As one cryptocurrency analyst has put it: “Problems of centralization cannot be solved through the same modes of thinking that created them. Instead, solutions require innovation from below.”
    As I write, and as you read, developers are working furiously to create a mechanism for ordinary people to trade cryptocurrencies without centralized exchanges that function exactly like banks, with all their vulnerabilities. Theirs is an open-source project that can be studied, modified and freely shared, not a private money-making business. Until they succeed, my advice is to keep your bitcoin and other cryptocurrency investments modest.
    Unless, of course, you fancy a 36% haircut out of the blue.
    Kind regards,
    Ted Bauman
    Editor, The Bauman Letter
    http://www.valuewalk.com/2016/08/bitcoin-bail-in/

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  6. #5
    They are in hot water. Issuing securities without a license is a crime in the US. There are multiple suits against them.

    http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com...ties-Fraud.htm

    These idiots are bad seeds in the community. I plan to investigate there hand in the theft, to bring to light what happened. Someone had access to the internal keys or able to remove all safe guards.

    Socializing the losses/issuing worthless tradable tokens was the last straw.

    I will be filing complaints. What they did was fraud and highly illegal in many countries.

    Nobody know who the thief was. They might be the real thief as is knowable. They were either stupid or malicious.
    Last edited by kfarnan; 08-17-2016 at 10:46 AM.

  7. #6
    Are they doxxing on bitfinex now? I heard their bull$#@! SorryForYourLossCoin / bfxcoin can only be sold, not rebought if you are American.

    Land of the Free.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by kfarnan View Post
    They are in hot water. Issuing securities without a license is a crime in the US. There are multiple suits against them.

    http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com...ties-Fraud.htm

    These idiots are bad seeds in the community. I plan to investigate there hand in the theft, to bring to light what happened. Someone had access to the internal keys or able to remove all safe guards.

    Socializing the losses/issuing worthless tradable tokens was the last straw.

    I will be filing complaints. What they did was fraud and highly illegal in many countries.

    Nobody know who the thief was. They might be the real thief as is knowable. They were either stupid or malicious.
    Having to file with the SEC is another example of how the 1% remain where they are while the 99% can't get anywhere. I understand your frustration but this is the wrong cause to support.



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