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Thread: Why Rand Paul Supporters Should Vote for Gary Johnson

  1. #1

    Why Rand Paul Supporters Should Vote for Gary Johnson

    Why Rand Paul Supporters Should Vote for Gary Johnson

    "Sen. Paul . . . was the one candidate on the Republican side who was not afraid to talk about civil liberties, the perils of endless war, and the principles of liberty."
    — Gov. Gary Johnson



    Presidential candidate Gary Johnson agrees with Rand Paul on economic and foreign policy issues.
    Former New Mexico governor Gary Johnson is running on the Libertarian Party ticket for President of the United States. He largely agrees with Senator Rand Paul on civil liberties, economic policy, and foreign policy. Here are some of their areas of agreement:

    Cutting taxes and simplifying the tax code
    Governor Johnson believes in reducing the overall tax burden on the American people. He believes America's complicated tax code punishes productivity and capital investment. In addition, it distorts the free market by rewarding industries favored by politicians, rather than ones favored by consumers. Governor Johnson prefers a consumption tax over an income tax, because it is more economically efficient.

    Reducing the size of government
    As governor of New Mexico, Gary Johnson vetoed 750 wasteful spending bills and thousands of budget line items in order to balance the state budget. He has promised to reign in federal deficit spending as President, without raising taxes, by using his presidential veto power in a similar manner. As President, he will propose balanced budgets and force Congress to either balance the budget or override his veto.

    Support for free market capitalism
    Hillary Clinton once said, "Don't let anybody tell you that it's corporations and businesses that create jobs." She held that position for about three days before retracting her comments. Governor Johnson holds the polar opposite position: Don't let anybody tell you that politicians and government create jobs. Gary Johnson agrees with the vast majority of economists in believing that jobs are created by entrepreneurs, growing companies, and a vibrant free market economy. He believes the best thing government can do for the economy is lower taxes, eliminate regulations, and get out of the way.

    Opposition to crony capitalism
    Democrats under President Obama have given wasteful government handouts to many politically-favored companies. For example, they gave $535 million in loan guarantees to Solyndra two years before it went bankrupt, leaving taxpayers with the bill. Gary Johnson opposes this kind of crony capitalism, favoring free markets instead.

    Opposition to bank bailouts
    Gov. Gary Johnson opposes all forms of crony capitalism, including bailing out Wall Street firms with taxpayer dollars.

    Opposition to NSA surveillance
    Governor Johnson opposes NSA surveillance of the American people's private communications. The NSA was created by executive order and he would end it by executive order. He also opposes attempts by government to require backdoors in encrypted communications.

    Support for a peaceful, non-interventionist foreign policy
    Gary Johnson believes that America's policy of repeated military interventions, regime changes, and failed attempts at nation-building have caused America to be less safe than if it hadn't engaged in these war making activities. He believes that the political instability caused by American military intervention in the Middle East led to the eventual rise of the Islamic State. He believes the United States needs to cut off the Islamic State's sources of funding, while avoiding the kinds of mistakes that led to its rise in the first place.

    Support for civil liberties
    Governor Johnson believes our Founding Fathers would be appalled if they saw the types of infringements on civil liberties that government engages in today. Without a warrant or due process, law enforcement can spy on our communications, photograph our license plates, monitor our financial transactions, track the location of our mobile phones, and even monitor which books we check out of a public library. Unlike Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, Gary Johnson would protect the civil liberties of the American people.

    Support for gun rights
    Gary Johnson says, "If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns." He believes that if guns are banned, law-abiding citizens will turn them in first, and criminals will turn them is last. He believes that concealed carry helps reduce crime.

    Support for legalization of marijuana
    Gary Johnson believes that states have a 10th Amendment right to legalize marijuana. He supports the legalization of both medical and recreational marijuana, but does not support the legalization of other illegal drugs. He opposes mandatory minimum sentencing for drug crimes, and believes overall drug policy should involve less incarceration and more rehabilitation.

    Support for criminal justice reform
    Gary Johnson is appalled that "the land of the free" has the second-highest incarceration rate in the world. The problem is caused by the fact that government has criminalized far too many activities, including victimless crimes like harmless marijuana use. Another reason for America's high incarceration rate is that mandatory minimum sentences have forced judges to hand down unreasonably-long sentences for many crimes. Governor Johnson believes in reducing the number of criminal laws and giving judges greater discretion in sentencing decisions.

    Opposition to eminent domain abuse
    Unlike Donald Trump, who has tried to abuse eminent domain for his own personal profit, Gary Johnson opposes the use of eminent domain to seize property from one private party in order to transfer it to another.

    Opposition to civil-asset forfeiture
    Civil-asset forfeiture allows law enforcement to seize the assets of someone suspected, but not accused, of a crime. Year ago, Gary Johnson believed that civil-asset forfeiture was a useful tool for law enforcement, but he has since reversed his position. He came to realize that civil-asset forfeiture is very abusive. "If you happen to be the individual whose assets get confiscated, it can be devastating," he says. Today, Gary calls for a ban on the practice. He believes it violates the U.S. Constitution. He also believes that because police departments get to keep much of the money, it provides them with a financial incentive to take property even from innocent people.
    Rand Paul for Peace



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  3. #2
    Yeah, not quite there yet. We'll see come election day.

    I can, however, still respect those that vote LP this time. Trump or Clinton?? Sorry.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  4. #3
    CAn we get a gary Johnson subforum or move his crap to the 2016 presidential election subforum so I can ignore/exclude them without excluding all real liberty campaign threads?

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    CAn we get a gary Johnson subforum or move his crap to the 2016 presidential election subforum so I can ignore/exclude them without excluding all real liberty campaign threads?
    yes please
    Seattle Sounders 2016 MLS Cup Champions 2019 MLS Cup Champions 2022 CONCACAF Champions League - and the [un]official football club of RPF

    just a libertarian - no caucus

  6. #5
    you two don't think the dozen policy positions in the op far outweigh Johnson's stance on nazi cake?

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    you two don't think the dozen policy positions in the op far outweigh Johnson's stance on nazi cake?
    It isn't about that to me. I don't trust the douche and think his whole cost/benefit talking point/plan just furthers us down the road to fascism. I find it disgusting from a liberty pov. I think if he was president, his limp wristed approach would have him signing off on whatever any warmonger or powerbroker told him was best.

  8. #7
    I am. Made up my mind the day Rand quit. Nothing will change it.

    He's not a crook, Clinton and Trump are. Anything else is irrelevant now.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    I am. Made up my mind the day Rand quit. Nothing will change it.

    He's not a crook, Clinton and Trump are. Anything else is irrelevant now.
    Can't argue with that logic. My dad told me today that he is just going to write in his name. I'm going to go with that. I know him. I know he's not crooked. He really is the man America needs. I support him.



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  11. #9
    Gary Johnson admittedly and publicly rejected Individual Liberty's most fundamental principle. Gary Johnson, admittedly, would force an Individual or a group of Individuals to relinquish their property to another Individual or to another group of Individuals by way of the barrel of a government gun. Gary Johnson openly rejects Individual Liberty's most fundamental principle in the name of Liberty itself, no less. His admitted position is one that, because it rejects Individual Liberty's most fundamental principle, is patently a wilful aggression toward the concept of Individual Liberty fully.

    Limited for Liberty used to mean something around here. It doesn't seem so today. I'm of the position that friends who knowingly promote Gary Johnson in the name of Liberty, given his rejection of its most fundamental principle, are a disgrace to Liberty's name and wilfully demonstrate an organized, aggressive, coercive, disservice to the concept of Individual Liberty itself.

    I one starred the thread on principle alone. A candidate who admittedly and publicly rejects Individual Liberty's most fundamental principle; a wilful aggression toward the concept of Individual Liberty fully, has no business having his name whispered, much less mentioned, in the "2016 Liberty Campaign" section, of all places.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 07-25-2016 at 07:53 PM.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    CAn we...move his crap to the 2016 presidential election subforum so I can ignore/exclude them without excluding all real liberty campaign threads?
    Seconded.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 07-25-2016 at 08:09 PM.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by LatinsforPaul View Post
    Yep. That says it, in part, for me. Although my preference for Gary isn't limited to those fourteen issues. There are about 40 more liberty positions that Gary embraces. And with his poll numbers growing every week, and the Rs and Ds at historic lows (27% and 29% in Utah, for $#@!'s sake), now's the opportunity to vote for a candidate who supports most liberty issues.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Gary Johnson admittedly and publicly rejected Individual Liberty's most fundamental principle. Gary Johnson, admittedly, would force an Individual or a group of Individuals to relinquish their property to another Individual or to another group of Individuals by way of the barrel of a government gun. Gary Johnson openly rejects Individual Liberty's most fundamental principle in the name of Liberty itself, no less. His admitted position is one that, because it rejects Individual Liberty's most fundamental principle, is patently a wilful aggression toward the concept of Individual Liberty fully.

    Limited for Liberty used to mean something around here. It doesn't seem so today. I'm of the position that friends who knowingly promote Gary Johnson in the name of Liberty, given his rejection of its most fundamental principle, are a disgrace to Liberty's name and wilfully demonstrate an organized, aggressive, coercive, disservice to the concept of Individual Liberty itself.

    I one starred the thread on principle alone. A candidate who admittedly and publicly rejects Individual Liberty's most fundamental principle; a wilful aggression toward the concept of Individual Liberty fully, has no business having his name whispered, much less mentioned, in the "2016 Liberty Campaign" section, of all places.

    What a load of crap. If you can't vote for a decent honest good guy like Johnson with some ambiguous excuse like that, you will never find anyone to vote for.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post

    Originally Posted by Natural Citizen

    Gary Johnson admittedly and publicly rejected Individual Liberty's most fundamental principle. Gary Johnson, admittedly, would force an Individual or a group of Individuals to relinquish their property to another Individual or to another group of Individuals by way of the barrel of a government gun. Gary Johnson openly rejects Individual Liberty's most fundamental principle in the name of Liberty itself, no less. His admitted position is one that, because it rejects Individual Liberty's most fundamental principle, is patently a wilful aggression toward the concept of Individual Liberty fully.

    Limited for Liberty used to mean something around here. It doesn't seem so today. I'm of the position that friends who knowingly promote Gary Johnson in the name of Liberty, given his rejection of its most fundamental principle, are a disgrace to Liberty's name and wilfully demonstrate an organized, aggressive, coercive, disservice to the concept of Individual Liberty itself.

    I one starred the thread on principle alone. A candidate who admittedly and publicly rejects Individual Liberty's most fundamental principle; a wilful aggression toward the concept of Individual Liberty fully, has no business having his name whispered, much less mentioned, in the "2016 Liberty Campaign" section, of all places.

    What a load of crap...vote for a decent honest good guy like Johnson....
    Again...Gary Johnson admittedly and publicly rejected Individual Liberty's most fundamental principle. Gary Johnson, admittedly, would force an Individual or a group of Individuals to relinquish their property to another Individual or to another group of Individuals by way of the barrel of a government gun. Gary Johnson openly rejects Individual Liberty's most fundamental principle in the name of Liberty itself, no less. His admitted position is one that, because it rejects Individual Liberty's most fundamental principle, is patently a wilful aggression toward the concept of Individual Liberty fully.

    Please consider re-evaluating the summation with which you've concluded your assessment so that you may better understand the foundation for moral code that truly defines a decent, honest good guy. Seems like the foundation for moral code with which you've premised your assessment isn't the relative foundation for moral code that establishes the principles of Individual Liberty. Thank You, 69360.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 07-25-2016 at 10:06 PM.

  16. #14
    He doesn't believe in private property rights and he said he would sign the Trans Pacific Partnership.

    Huge fail.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  17. #15
    If Johnson was a strong, libertarian candidate with a good grasp of Austrian economics, he still wouldn't win. But he'd be able to go on the debate stage with Trump and Hillary and give reasoned arguments for the libertarian ideology.

    But considering the crap he's been spewing, you better hope he doesn't get enough support to put himself on the stage with Trump.

    Libertarians would never recover from it.

    Johnson isn't the Libertarian candidate you want to see finally hit 15%.

    He's not Harry Browne.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    He doesn't believe in private property rights and he said he would sign the Trans Pacific Partnership.

    Huge fail.
    Hello Trump supporter.

    Does His Orangeness believe in property rights as he advocates for bank bailouts and socialized medicine?

    Did he believe in Vera Coking's property rights, when he tried to use eminent domain to steal her house?



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Hello Trump supporter.

    Does His Orangeness believe in property rights as he advocates for bank bailouts and socialized medicine?

    Did he believe in Vera Coking's property rights, when he tried to use eminent domain to steal her house?
    Does he profess his position under the banner of Liberty?
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 07-25-2016 at 10:11 PM.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Again...Gary Johnson admittedly and publicly rejected Individual Liberty's most fundamental principle. Gary Johnson, admittedly, would force an Individual or a group of Individuals to relinquish their property to another Individual or to another group of Individuals by way of the barrel of a government gun. Gary Johnson openly rejects Individual Liberty's most fundamental principle in the name of Liberty itself, no less. His admitted position is one that, because it rejects Individual Liberty's most fundamental principle, is patently a wilful aggression toward the concept of Individual Liberty fully.

    Please consider re-evaluating the summation with which you've concluded your assessment so that you may better understand the foundation for moral code that truly defines a decent, honest good guy. Seems like the foundation for moral code with which you've premised your assessment isn't the relative foundation for moral code that establishes the principles of Individual Liberty. Thank You, 69360.
    Another load of crap. This drivel could be used as an excuse for just about anything.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    He doesn't believe in private property rights...
    It's not only that he doesn't believe in private property rights, but he openly and publicly professes that he'd force an Individual to relinquish his property to another Individual at the barrel of a government gun. True Liberty, as you know, means that an Individual or a group of Individuals should be free to make rules for themselves provided that those rules don't prohibit another Individual or another group of Individuals from equally doing the same. Gary Johson's admitted position is fundamentally contrary to Liberty itself as it is correctly defined. Consequently, Gary Johnson's admitted position is aggressive toward and contrary to the concept of Individual Liberty fully.

    The fact that some friends here, on a platform which prides itself on its mission toward the cause of Liberty, promotes a presidential candidate whose admitted position is patently contrary and aggressive to the fundamental principle of Individual Liberty itself and, more disturbingly, in the name of Liberty in a "2016 Liberty Campaigns" sub-forum tells me that I could never again trust any of them to honestly speak to, lead, or make any logical judgement in any instance whereas the true and fundamental cause of Liberty is at stake.

    I don't really care if people support Gary Johnson. All I expect is that people don't promote him in the name of Liberty. His admitted position is a patent rejection of its most fundamental principle. And, again, to reject Individual Liberty's most fundmental principle is to reject Individual fully. It is not possible to obtain or possess Individual Liberty without accepting its fundamental principles and moral foundation as a whole. They must be accepted as a whole and in full in order to enjoy its benefits as an Indivisibe whole. They cannot be accepted and rejected piece-meal. To recklessly accept and reject them in a piece-meal manner is to sacrifice their benefits in whole.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 07-26-2016 at 03:48 AM.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    It isn't about that to me. I don't trust the douche and think his whole cost/benefit talking point/plan just furthers us down the road to fascism. I find it disgusting from a liberty pov.
    That is the core of my lack of support for Johnson.

    The cake-baking thing just highlights the problem.

    You can't promote or "mainstream" liberty unless you actually ... you know ... advocate for liberty.

    (And cost efficiency is nice and all, but no one is going to man the walls for it when the arrows start to fill the sky ...)

    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    I think if he was president, his limp wristed approach would have him signing off on whatever any warmonger or powerbroker told him was best.
    And Weld as VP would do nothing to allay such doubts. Quite the opposite, in fact ...
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Another load of crap. This drivel could be used as an excuse for just about anything.
    Why do you hate Freedom?

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
    If Johnson was a strong, libertarian candidate with a good grasp of Austrian economics, he still wouldn't win. But he'd be able to go on the debate stage with Trump and Hillary and give reasoned arguments for the libertarian ideology.

    But considering the crap he's been spewing, you better hope he doesn't get enough support to put himself on the stage with Trump.

    Libertarians would never recover from it.

    Johnson isn't the Libertarian candidate you want to see finally hit 15%.

    He's not Harry Browne.
    Damn, I almost gave a plus rep to Smitty.
    "The Patriarch"

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    What a load of crap. If you can't vote for a decent honest good guy like Johnson with some ambiguous excuse like that, you will never find anyone to vote for.
    Oh noes!! "Please, Br'er Fox, don't fling me in dat brier-patch!"

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
    If Johnson was a strong, libertarian candidate with a good grasp of Austrian economics, he still wouldn't win. But he'd be able to go on the debate stage with Trump and Hillary and give reasoned arguments for the libertarian ideology.

    But considering the crap he's been spewing, you better hope he doesn't get enough support to put himself on the stage with Trump.

    Libertarians would never recover from it.

    Johnson isn't the Libertarian candidate you want to see finally hit 15%.

    He's not Harry Browne.
    That hadn't even occurred to me.

    Remember Johnson's performance in the 2012 GOP primary debates?

    Yeah, me neither ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Damn, I almost gave a plus rep to Smitty.
    I actually did give him one.

    Whatever you might think of pro-Trump folk, that was a cogent and excellent point.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    That hadn't even occurred to me.

    Remember Johnson's performance in the 2012 GOP primary debates?

    Yeah, me neither ...



    I actually did give him one.

    Whatever you might think of pro-Trump folk, that was a cogent and excellent point.
    Yes, it was.
    "The Patriarch"

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Why do you hate Freedom?
    This is a good example of how you will never be effective. Somebody intends to vote for the libertarian party candidate and they hate freedom?

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    This is a good example of how you will never be effective. Somebody intends to vote for the libertarian party candidate and they hate freedom?
    A political party is not elected to office. A person is and Johnson sucks. Clear now?
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    you two don't think the dozen policy positions in the op far outweigh Johnson's stance on nazi cake?
    No. He also favors death-on-demand.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  33. #29
    Why do people dislike Johnson? I'm not too familiar with him but do agree on the majority of his positions:

    http://www.ontheissues.org/Gary_Johnson.htm

    And real answers please- I'm looking to understand- not insults.
    There is no spoon.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    No. He also favors death-on-demand.
    Example?
    There is no spoon.

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