Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 104

Thread: Trump & Putin. Yes, It's Really a Thing

  1. #1

    Trump & Putin. Yes, It's Really a Thing

    Over the last year there has been a recurrent refrain about the seeming bromance between Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin. More seriously, but relatedly, many believe Trump is an admirer and would-be emulator of Putin's increasingly autocratic and illiberal rule. But there's quite a bit more to the story. At a minimum, Trump appears to have a deep financial dependence on Russian money from persons close to Putin. And this is matched to a conspicuous solicitousness to Russian foreign policy interests where they come into conflict with US policies which go back decades through administrations of both parties. There is also something between a non-trivial and a substantial amount of evidence suggesting Putin-backed financial support for Trump or a non-tacit alliance between the two men.

    Let me start by saying I'm no Russia hawk. I have long been skeptical of US efforts to extend security guarantees to countries within what the Russians consider their 'near abroad' or extend such guarantees and police Russian interactions with new states which for centuries were part of either the Russian Empire or the USSR. This isn't a matter of indifference to these countries. It is based on my belief in seriously thinking through the potential costs of such policies. In the case of the Baltics, those countries are now part of NATO. Security commitments have been made which absolutely must be kept. But there are many other areas where such commitments have not been made. My point in raising this is that I do not come to this question or these policies as someone looking for confrontation or cold relations with Russia.


    Let's start with the basic facts. There is a lot of Russian money flowing into Trump's coffers and he is conspicuously solicitous of Russian foreign policy priorities.

    I'll list off some facts.

    1. All the other discussions of Trump's finances aside, his debt load has grown dramatically over the last year, from $350 million to $630 million. This is in just one year while his liquid assets have also decreased. Trump has been blackballed by all major US banks.

    2. Post-bankruptcy Trump has been highly reliant on money from Russia, most of which has over the years become increasingly concentrated among oligarchs and sub-garchs close to Vladimir Putin. Here's a good overview from The Washington Post, with one morsel for illustration ...
    Since the 1980s, Trump and his family members have made numerous trips to Moscow in search of business opportunities, and they have relied on Russian investors to buy their properties around the world.
    “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets,” Trump’s son, Donald Jr., told a real estate conference in 2008, according to an account posted on the website of eTurboNews, a trade publication. “We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia.”

    3. One example of this is the Trump Soho development in Manhattan, one of Trump's largest recent endeavors. The project was the hit with a series of lawsuits in response to some typically Trumpian efforts to defraud investors by making fraudulent claims about the financial health of the project. Emerging out of that litigation however was news about secret financing for the project from Russia and Kazakhstan. Most attention about the project has focused on the presence of a twice imprisoned Russian immigrant with extensive ties to the Russian criminal underworld. But that's not the most salient part of the story. As the Times put it,

    "Mr. Lauria brokered a $50 million investment in Trump SoHo and three other Bayrock projects by an Icelandic firm preferred by wealthy Russians “in favor with” President Vladimir V. Putin, according to a lawsuit against Bayrock by one of its former executives. The Icelandic company, FL Group, was identified in a Bayrock investor presentation as a “strategic partner,” along with Alexander Mashkevich, a billionaire once charged in a corruption case involving fees paid by a Belgian company seeking business in Kazakhstan; that case was settled with no admission of guilt."
    Another suit alleged the project "occasionally received unexplained infusions of cash from accounts in Kazakhstan and Russia."

    Sounds completely legit.

    Read both articles: After his bankruptcy and business failures roughly a decade ago Trump has had an increasingly difficult time finding sources of capital for new investments. As I noted above, Trump has been blackballed by all major US banks with the exception of Deutschebank, which is of course a foreign bank with a major US presence. He has steadied and rebuilt his financial empire with a heavy reliance on capital from Russia. At a minimum the Trump organization is receiving lots of investment capital from people close to Vladimir Putin.

    Trump's tax returns would likely clarify the depth of his connections to and dependence on Russian capital aligned with Putin. And in case you're keeping score at home: no, that's not reassuring.

    4. Then there's Paul Manafort, Trump's nominal 'campaign chair' who now functions as campaign manager and top advisor. Manafort spent most of the last decade as top campaign and communications advisor for Viktor Yanukovych, the pro-Russian Ukrainian Prime Minister and then President whose ouster in 2014 led to the on-going crisis and proxy war in Ukraine. Yanukovych was and remains a close Putin ally. Manafort is running Trump's campaign.

    5. Trump's foreign policy advisor on Russia and Europe is Carter Page, a man whose entire professional career has revolved around investments in Russia and who has deep and continuing financial and employment ties to Gazprom. If you're not familiar with Gazprom, imagine if most or all of the US energy industry were rolled up into a single company and it were personally controlled by the US President who used it as a source of revenue and patronage. That is Gazprom's role in the Russian political and economic system. It is no exaggeration to say that you cannot be involved with Gazprom at the very high level which Page has been without being wholly in alignment with Putin's policies. Those ties also allow Putin to put Page out of business at any time.

    6. Over the course of the last year, Putin has aligned all Russian state controlled media behind Trump. As Frank Foer explains here, this fits a pattern with how Putin has sought to prop up rightist/nationalist politicians across Europe, often with direct or covert infusions of money. In some cases this is because they support Russia-backed policies; in others it is simply because they sow discord in Western aligned states. Of course, Trump has repeatedly praised Putin, not only in the abstract but often for the authoritarian policies and patterns of government which have most soured his reputation around the world.

    7. Here's where it gets more interesting. This is one of a handful of developments that tipped me from seeing all this as just a part of Trump's larger shadiness to something more specific and ominous about the relationship between Putin and Trump. As TPM's Tierney Sneed explained in this article, one of the most enduring dynamics of GOP conventions (there's a comparable dynamic on the Dem side) is more mainstream nominees battling conservative activists over the party platform, with activists trying to check all the hardline ideological boxes and the nominees trying to soften most or all of those edges. This is one thing that made the Trump convention very different. The Trump Camp was totally indifferent to the platform. So party activists were able to write one of the most conservative platforms in history. Not with Trump's backing but because he simply didn't care. With one big exception: Trump's team mobilized the nominee's traditional mix of cajoling and strong-arming on one point: changing the party platform on assistance to Ukraine against Russian military operations in eastern Ukraine. For what it's worth (and it's not worth much) I am quite skeptical of most Republicans call for aggressively arming Ukraine to resist Russian aggression. But the single-mindedness of this focus on this one issue - in the context of total indifference to everything else in the platform - speaks volumes.

    This does not mean Trump is controlled by or in the pay of Russia or Putin. It can just as easily be explained by having many of his top advisors having spent years working in Putin's orbit and being aligned with his thinking and agenda. But it is certainly no coincidence. Again, in the context of near total indifference to the platform and willingness to let party activists write it in any way they want, his team zeroed in on one fairly obscure plank to exert maximum force and it just happens to be the one most important to Putin in terms of US policy.

    Add to this that his most conspicuous foreign policy statements track not only with Putin's positions but those in which Putin is most intensely interested. Aside from Ukraine, Trump's suggestion that the US and thus NATO might not come to the defense of NATO member states in the Baltics in the case of a Russian invasion is a case in point.

    There are many other things people are alleging about hacking and all manner of other mysteries. But those points are highly speculative, some verging on conspiratorial in their thinking. I ignore them here because I've wanted to focus on unimpeachable, undisputed and publicly known facts. These alone paint a stark and highly troubling picture.

    To put this all into perspective, if Vladimir Putin were simply the CEO of a major American corporation and there was this much money flowing in Trump's direction, combined with this much solicitousness of Putin's policy agenda, it would set off alarm bells galore. That is not hyperbole or exaggeration. And yet Putin is not the CEO of an American corporation. He's the autocrat who rules a foreign state, with an increasingly hostile posture towards the United States and a substantial stockpile of nuclear weapons. The stakes involved in finding out 'what's going on' as Trump might put it are quite a bit higher.

    There is something between a non-trivial and a substantial amount of circumstantial evidence for a financial relationship between Trump and Putin or a non-tacit alliance between the two men. Even if you draw no adverse conclusions, Trump's financial empire is heavily leveraged and has a deep reliance on capital infusions from oligarchs and other sources of wealth aligned with Putin. That's simply not something that can be waved off or ignored.
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/...really-a-thing
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    Another liberal source. Man do you read anything non liberal?

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    Another liberal source. Man do you read anything non liberal?
    Sorry, I checked WND, Drudge and Breitbart. They're not reporting on this.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    Another liberal source. Man do you read anything non liberal?
    Do you have anything in the way of facts to dispute the argument put forth by the author?

    You have made your complaint heard repeatedly over location of articles. You never seem to have any fact based substance upon which you offer to validate your disagreement with the substance within the articles.
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle

  6. #5
    This does not look good considering that after election Trumpster would have even more flexibility in working with Russia than he does today.




    Related

    Obama tells Russian PM "After Election I Have More Flexibilty" 3/26 /2012

    ▶ 0:31
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JpPU-SwcbE
    Mar 26, 2012

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    Another liberal source. Man do you read anything non liberal?
    Truth is truth dude. I'm the furthest ideology from a Socialist....but if the WSWS is the only place reporting the truth who cares.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect - Mark Twain

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    Sorry, I checked WND, Drudge and Breitbart. They're not reporting on this.
    Maybe that is a clue.
    Quote Originally Posted by moostraks View Post
    Do you have anything in the way of facts to dispute the argument put forth by the author?

    You have made your complaint heard repeatedly over location of articles. You never seem to have any fact based substance upon which you offer to validate your disagreement with the substance within the articles.
    I don't need facts when I can expose bias. That is enough. Costs me two minutes to check what the site is about vs researching lies.

    I do research from time to time. But not when it fits a pattern.

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    Truth is truth dude. I'm the furthest ideology from a Socialist....but if the WSWS is the only place reporting the truth who cares.
    Same as above.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    I don't need facts when I can expose bias. That is enough.
    Hilarious. That should be Trump's slogan.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Hilarious. That should be Trump's slogan.
    It's true.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Hilarious. That should be Trump's slogan.
    Oh...you mean its not?

    These TrumpDropplings are killin me...
    Who needs comedy central??
    "They sure like eating their marshmallows."

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post

    I don't need facts when I can expose bias.
    Sig worthy.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    It's true.
    You know....

    You'd think you'd be able to recognize how far you've buried your head as you type.

    Fact: noun; a thing that is indisputably the case.

    This is what you don't need?! Because it isn't coming from someone like?! So you don't even need the facts?!!! What the hell is wrong with you?!
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  15. #13
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  16. #14
    Account Restricted. Admin to review account standing


    Posts
    28,739
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    It still does not dilute the machinations behind the DNC Leak scandal. Putin did not create those emails from thin air. These pieces are being circulated in order to downplay the widespread fraud that was exposed.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    You know....

    You'd think you'd be able to recognize how far you've buried your head as you type.

    Fact: noun; a thing that is indisputably the case.

    This is what you don't need?! Because it isn't coming from someone like?! So you don't even need the facts?!!! What the hell is wrong with you?!
    Trumpitis.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  18. #16
    Putin’s Puppet

    If the Russian president could design a candidate to undermine American interests—and advance his own—he’d look a lot like Donald Trump.

    By Franklin Foer

    On Wednesday, Donald Trump told the New York Times that he would not necessarily come to the aid of NATO states threatened by Russia and would make his decision to defend them from an attack after reviewing whether they “have fulfilled their obligations to us.” It was the latest statement from Trump that was likely greeted with delight in the Kremlin. Earlier this month, Franklin Foer wrote on the frightening ways in which Trump seems to be playing right into Vladimir Putin's plans for destabilizing the West.​

    Vladimir Putin has a plan for destroying the West—and that plan looks a lot like Donald Trump. Over the past decade, Russia has boosted right-wing populists across Europe. It loaned money to Marine Le Pen in France, well-documented transfusions of cash to keep her presidential campaign alive. Such largesse also wended its way to the former Italian premier Silvio Berlusconi, who profited “personally and handsomely” from Russian energy deals, as an American ambassador to Rome once put it. (Berlusconi also shared a 240-year-old bottle of Crimean wine with Putin and apparently makes ample use of a bed gifted to him by the Russian president.)

    There’s a clear pattern: Putin runs stealth efforts on behalf of politicians who rail against the European Union and want to push away from NATO. He’s been a patron of Golden Dawn in Greece, Ataka in Bulgaria, and Jobbik in Hungary. Joe Biden warned about this effort last year in a speech at the Brookings Institution: “President Putin sees such political forces as useful tools to be manipulated, to create cracks in the European body politic which he can then exploit.” Ruptures that will likely multiply after Brexit—a campaign Russia’s many propaganda organs bombastically promoted.

    The destruction of Europe is a grandiose objective; so is the weakening of the United States. Until recently, Putin has only focused glancing attention on American elections. Then along came the presumptive Republican nominee.

    Donald Trump is like the Kremlin’s favored candidates, only more so. He celebrated the United Kingdom’s exit from the EU. He denounces NATO with feeling. He is also a great admirer of Vladimir Putin. Trump’s devotion to the Russian president has been portrayed as buffoonish enthusiasm for a fellow macho strongman. But Trump’s statements of praise amount to something closer to slavish devotion. In 2007, he praised Putin for “rebuilding Russia.” A year later he added, “He does his work well. Much better than our Bush.” When Putin ripped American exceptionalism in a New York Times op-ed in 2013, Trump called it “a masterpiece.” Despite ample evidence, Trump denies that Putin has assassinated his opponents: “In all fairness to Putin, you’re saying he killed people. I haven’t seen that.” In the event that such killings have transpired, they can be forgiven: “At least he’s a leader.” And not just any old head of state: “I will tell you that, in terms of leadership, he’s getting an A.”

    That’s a highly abridged sampling of Trump’s odes to Putin. Why wouldn’t the Russians offer him the same furtive assistance they’ve lavished on Le Pen, Berlusconi, and the rest? Indeed, according to Politico’s Michael Crowley, Russian propaganda has gone full throttle for Trump, using its Russia Today apparatus to thrash Hillary Clinton and hail the courage of Trump’s foreign policy. (Sample headline: “Trump Sparks NATO Debate: ‘Obsolete’ or ‘Tripwire That Could Lead to World War III.’ ”) Russian intelligence services hacked the Democratic National Committee’s servers, purloining its opposition research files on Trump and just about everything else it could find. They also wormed their way into the computers of the Clinton Foundation, a breach reported by Bloomberg. And though it may be a mere coincidence, Trump’s inner circle is populated with advisers and operatives who have long careers advancing the interests of the Kremlin.

    We shouldn’t overstate Putin’s efforts, which will hardly determine the outcome of the election. Still, we should think of the Trump campaign as the moral equivalent of Henry Wallace’s communist-infiltrated campaign for president in 1948, albeit less sincere and idealistic than that. A foreign power that wishes ill upon the United States has attached itself to a major presidential campaign.

    ...
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a..._lot_like.html
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul



  19. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    It still does not dilute the machinations behind the DNC Leak scandal. Putin did not create those emails from thin air.
    Absolutely correct. The Dems will use this to minimize the impact - and it's a shame.

    Reminds me of Snowden, in that they attack the messenger rather than the message. We should really kill that "traitor".

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-kill-traitor/
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  21. #18
    They'd have said the same thing about Ron Paul too if he had gotten into this position. It is sad to see "libertarians" become cheerleaders for the status quo and war propaganda all because they are so desperate. It's really shameful.

  22. #19




    It might be all about Syria & ISIS & Ukraine and Wall Street donations to Hillary/Obama. Trump and Putin both don't seem to like ISIS at all.







    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    Are suggestimg Puton supports gay rights/weddings?



  23. #20
    Account Restricted. Admin to review account standing


    Posts
    28,739
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by sgt150 View Post
    They'd have said the same thing about Ron Paul too if he had gotten into this position. It is sad to see "libertarians" become cheerleaders for the status quo and war propaganda all because they are so desperate. It's really shameful.
    Some of it can be attributed to Trump Derangement Syndrome. Whatever. They are entitled to their opinion. There are people who like Trump for the wrong reasons as well. That's the human race!

  24. #21
    It's much more likely that America's intelligence community is leaking them. Hillary spit in their face.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    You know....

    You'd think you'd be able to recognize how far you've buried your head as you type.

    Fact: noun; a thing that is indisputably the case.

    This is what you don't need?! Because it isn't coming from someone like?! So you don't even need the facts?!!! What the hell is wrong with you?!
    For the mentally retarded. It is true that one does not need to argue the facts of a biased case when one simply needs to bring forward the facts of existence of a bias.

    But Morons will show their true colors by obfuscating the issue.


    Edit: also RT has been bashing Trump day one non stop.
    Last edited by silverhandorder; 07-25-2016 at 09:54 AM.

  26. #23
    If you think about it just a *little*, You have to know that the NSA was aware of Hillary's private server long before the whistle was blown about it. The internet is an open book and I doubt if there's anything that goes on in government that the NSA isn't monitoring.

    Couple that with the fact that Hillary's ineptitude got several CIA assets killed in Benghazi,...and all the rest of the trouble that her unsecured server undoubtedly caused,..and it's a no brainer that the CIA, NSA, and the FBI has a serious problem with Hillary.

    As for Putin,..I'm sure he understands the situation and realizes that he doesn't have to get involved, even if he was inclined to.

    He's an old KGB man. He understands that the intelligence community will handle the situation on their own.

  27. #24
    I like Putin. He immediately shot directly at ISIS. Instead of "accidentally" missing ISIS and killing innocent Syrians.

    Israel and the US funded ISIS, gave them guns, trained them.

    If Trump likes Putin, I have a more favorable view of Trump.

    Russia isn't the bad guy. They got rid of the Communism that was imposed from away. Israel and the US are the bad guy. Maybe Trump can drop our ally Israel and make friends with all the other countries in the Middle East. If there's some way the bankers can lose in this process, great.

    Rothschild was related to Karl Marx. Israel was given to Rothschild in the Balfour Declaration. Rothschild funded Soros.



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #25
    Account Restricted. Admin to review account standing


    Posts
    28,739
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
    If you think about it just a *little*, You have to know that the NSA was aware of Hillary's private server long before the whistle was blown about it. The internet is an open book and I doubt if there's anything that goes on in government that the NSA isn't monitoring.

    Couple that with the fact that Hillary's ineptitude got several CIA assets killed in Benghazi,...and all the rest of the trouble that her unsecured server undoubtedly caused,..and it's a no brainer that the CIA, NSA, and the FBI has a serious problem with Hillary.

    As for Putin,..I'm sure he understands the situation and realizes that he doesn't have to get involved, even if he was inclined to.

    He's an old KGB man. He understands that the intelligence community will handle the situation on their own.
    Putin knows that if those anti-missile sites go up in Poland and Romania that it's only a matter of time. The Anglo-American deep state has grand plans to break up Russia and turn her into another vassal state. He's pulling out the stops to make sure that Hillary is not elected because she will use NATO against him in a kinetic fashion.
    Last edited by AuH20; 07-25-2016 at 10:03 AM.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Putin knows that if those anti-missiles sites go up in Poland and Romania that it's only a matter of time. The Anglo-American deep state has grand plans to break up Russia and turn her into another vassal state. He's pulling out the stops to make sure that Hillary is not elected because she will use NATO against him in a kinetic fashion.
    It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that Putin and America's intelligence community was cooperating in order to keep that crazy bitch from launching WW3.

    Nobody wants that except Hillary and her neocon handlers.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    Another liberal source. Man do you read anything non liberal?
    If you don't have a shortcut on your computer for typing "liberal source," you should make one.

  32. #28
    Account Restricted. Admin to review account standing


    Posts
    28,739
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
    It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that Putin and America's intelligence community was cooperating in order to keep that crazy bitch from launching WW3.

    Nobody wants that except Hillary and her neocon handlers.
    Well, the Russians did try to warn us of the Tsarnaev plot. And they did communicate to the DIA along with Assad to curtail another plot.

  33. #29
    The sad thing is, I've seen Trump supporters on her acting like an alliance with Putin would be a good thing.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Putin knows that if those anti-missile sites go up in Poland and Romania that it's only a matter of time. The Anglo-American deep state has grand plans to break up Russia and turn her into another vassal state. He's pulling out the stops to make sure that Hillary is not elected because she will use NATO against him in a kinetic fashion.
    And looking at the connections wrt debt with Trump, it wouldn't surprise me if he has an idea to exploit this situation (him and his associates) Which is why I ask again, anyone have any FACTS that dispute the article's claims?

    Seems as though there is a high stakes poker game going on to which us lesser mere mortals are not privy to but being conned into support through the lesser of two evils argument.
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •