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Thread: Illegal Immigrants are NOT Eligible for ANY Federal Benefits

  1. #31
    School lunches and WIC maybe not. Depending on the state, you don't necessarily have to be a legal resident or citizen to use. You do have to be a legal citizen to use SNAP and Medicaid or SSI (or legal resident in the country five years or more).



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    School lunches and WIC maybe not. Depending on the state, you don't necessarily have to be a legal resident or citizen to use. You do have to be a legal citizen to use SNAP and Medicaid or SSI (or legal resident in the country five years or more).
    So... "ANY" in the title is misleading, then?

    Btw, while not directly eligible, illegals do benefit from SNAP.

    “Although two families may be identical in terms of income and family size, states have the option of including only part of the wages of an employed ineligible alien when calculating SNAP eligibility. Those states which do not count all the income of the ineligible aliens make it easier for a family with an illegal alien present to qualify for food stamps than for an identical all-citizen family,”
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.



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  5. #33
    Link? (though it says that at least one member of the family is legally in the country- the legal person IS eligible for SNAP).

    for a family with an illegal alien present
    Meaning the rest of the family is legal.

    http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/snap-po...en-eligibility

    SNAP Policy on Non-Citizen Eligibility

    Last Published: 03/11/2016

    A person must be a U.S. citizen or an eligible, lawfully-present non-citizen to qualify for SNAP benefits. Non-citizens who are eligible based on their immigration status must also satisfy other SNAP eligibility requirements such as income and resource limits to receive SNAP benefits.
    Some States have programs to supply food benefits in lieu of SNAP to non-citizens who do not qualify for SNAP benefits.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 07-23-2016 at 01:48 PM.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Link? (though it says that at least one member of the family is legally in the country- the legal person IS eligible for SNAP).


    Meaning the rest of the family is legal.

    http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/snap-po...en-eligibility
    You asked me for a link then proved my point lol

    Same in the case where the kids get benefits: You don't think the illegals in the family eat some of that food they help the family qualify for?
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.

  7. #35
    So you said that having a legal citizen kid was not relevant to illegal immigrants getting any benefits and now admit that they only reason the family got any benefits is that they had a legal member who WAS eligible for benefits. Actually you supported MY claim that illegals are not eligible. The benefits were going to the legal person.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    So you said that having a legal citizen kid was not relevant to illegal immigrants getting any benefits and now admit that they only reason the family got any benefits is that they had a legal member who WAS eligible for benefits. Actually you supported MY claim that illegals are not eligible. The benefits were going to the legal person.
    My scenario does not include a legal child, as the person applying is an income earning citizen.

    The illegal person is factored in, making it easier for a household with a higher income to artificially lower that income and qualify for benefits.

    Others have mentioned hospitals not being able to turn away people for stabilizing service, which is Federal.
    You mentioned "most" in your post, not "all," rendering the thread title misleading.
    Others have mentioned public school, which is not just a benefit for the children involved, any moreso than free lunches/breakfasts and qualifying for food assistance exclusively benefit children.
    Forged documentation allows illegals to apply for and sometimes receive benefits.

    None of these things are free.

    Even CNN's "Immigration myths debunked" article, which strives to point out every positive angle of illegal immigration, cedes that some receive benefits:

    Also, undocumented immigrants are eligible for schooling and emergency medical care. Currently, the average unlawful immigrant household costs taxpayers $14,387 per household, according to a recent report by The Heritage Foundation. But in its 2013 "Immigration Myths and Facts" report, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce says most economists see providing these benefits as an investment for the future, when these children become workers and taxpayers.
    Note that it doesn't say "the children of undocumented immigrants."

    Undocumented immigrants do not qualify for welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, and most other public benefits. Most of these programs require proof of legal immigration status and under the 1996 welfare law
    Again, not "all" but "most."

    Incorrect thread title is incorrect.
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.

  9. #37
    Schools and school lunches are state- not federal- benefits. Emergency medical care cannot be denied anybody -regardless of citizenship or immigration status.

    Using forged documents (which does occur) means somebody trying to get something they are not eligible for.

    The Heritage article (again you provide no links to anything) notes that those benefits are not Federal benefits. http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...he-us-taxpayer

    In contrast to lawful immigrants, unlawful immigrants at present do not have access to means-tested welfare, Social Security, or Medicare. This does not mean, however, that they do not receive government benefits and services. Children in unlawful immigrant households receive heavily subsidized public education. Many unlawful immigrants have U.S.-born children; these children are currently eligible for the full range of government welfare and medical benefits. And, of course, when unlawful immigrants live in a community, they use roads, parks, sewers, police, and fire protection; these services must expand to cover the added population or there will be “congestion” effects that lead to a decline in service quality.

    In 2010, the average unlawful immigrant household received around $24,721 in government benefits and services while paying some $10,334 in taxes. This generated an average annual fiscal deficit (benefits received minus taxes paid) of around $14,387 per household. This cost had to be borne by U.S. taxpayers. Amnesty would provide unlawful households with access to over 80 means-tested welfare programs, Obamacare, Social Security, and Medicare. The fiscal deficit for each household would soar.
    Again- things like school are state benefits.

    The paragraph you quoted also noted:

    the U.S. Chamber of Commerce says most economists see providing these benefits as an investment for the future, when these children become workers and taxpayers.

    And on the Federal side, if they are working (and not getting paid in cash) they are paying taxes. SSI taxes. Income taxes. Sales taxes. Property taxes. They pay billions into Social Security while not being able to get any of it (unless they later become citizens).
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 07-23-2016 at 02:47 PM.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Most "anchor babies" are not born until several years after immigrants are in the country- as "life happens" and people work and live and fall in love. They are not born so that they can go on welfare.


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...3b9_story.html

    Send the mother home. Then she won't be torn between the baby and work. Instead, she can be torn between taking her baby back with her.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Schools and school lunches are state- not federal- benefits.
    Bull$#@!. http://www.fns.usda.gov/nslp/nationa...h-program-nslp

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Using forged documents (which does occur) means somebody trying to get something they are not eligible for.
    .
    It's crazy to think that someone who is here illegally would do something illegal.



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  14. #41
    These fine folks have prepared a list of things illegals are eligible for. It says, "KNOW YOUR RIGHTS!"


    Free school lunches are on the list, Juan. http://www.childrensaidsociety.org/f...migrants-1.pdf

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Send the mother home. Then she won't be torn between the baby and work. Instead, she can be torn between taking her baby back with her.
    Ron Paul would disagree.

    http://www.ontheissues.org/TX/Ron_Paul_Immigration.htm

    Sending 12M illegals home won't & shouldn't happen

    Even with a healthy economy and stricter border controls, the issue of what to do with twelve-million-plus illegals already here would persist. One side says use the U.S. Army, round them up, and ship them home. The other side says give them amnesty, make them full-fledged citizens, and reward the lawbreakers, thus insulting and unfairly penalizing those who have patiently waited and obeyed our immigration laws. The first choice--sending twelve to fifteen million illegals home--isn't going to happen and should not happen. Neither the determination or the ability to accomplish it exists. Besides, if each case is looked at separately, we would find ourselves splitting up families and deporting some who have lived here for decades, if not their entire life, and who never lived for any length of time in Mexico.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Link? (though it says that at least one member of the family is legally in the country- the legal person IS eligible for SNAP).


    Meaning the rest of the family is legal.

    http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/snap-po...en-eligibility
    proven by the word of the person looking good for benefits. This is like the no doc/no verification housing loans.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it."
    James Madison

    "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams



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  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    These fine folks have prepared a list of things illegals are eligible for. It says, "KNOW YOUR RIGHTS!"


    Free school lunches are on the list, Juan. http://www.childrensaidsociety.org/f...migrants-1.pdf
    people have rights for free food.....who da thunk it
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it."
    James Madison

    "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams



    Μολὼν λάβε
    Dum Spiro, Pugno
    Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito

  18. #45
    http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb...forum-20120201

    The 12-term Texas congressman spent the better part of a 25-minute address thinking aloud about the thorny subject. He talked about how Americans are more accepting of outsiders when the economy is good, but when trouble looms there is a search for scapegoats.

    "I believe Hispanics have been used as scapegoats, to say, they're the problem instead of being a symptom maybe of a problem with the welfare state," Paul told the group. "In Nazi Germany they had to have scapegoats to blame and they turned on the Jews.

    "Now there's a lot of antagonism and resentment turned just automatically on immigrants," he continued. "You say, no not immigrants, it's just illegal immigrants. I do believe in legal immigration. I want to have a provision to obey those laws. You have to understand this in the context of the economy."

    Paul said he's not one of those politicians who believes that "barbed-wire fences and guns on our border will solve any of our problems." That's not, he said, the American way. And he doesn't think that a national identification card is the way to go.

    What the country does need, he said, is "a much better immigration service" fed by more resources. Not that he'd "vote for extra money." But he does, he told the crowd, have a plan.
    If the problem is welfare, go after the welfare program. Having zero illegal immigrants does nothing to address that.



    There were 11.3 million unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. in 2014. The population has remained essentially stable for five years, and currently makes up 3.5% of the nation’s population. The number of unauthorized immigrants peaked in 2007 at 12.2 million, when this group was 4% of the U.S. population.
    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...on-in-the-u-s/
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 07-23-2016 at 03:16 PM.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I understand how Paul feels. I also know that he tried, unsuccessfully, to get the Constitution amended so that illegally born babies would not automatically qualify for citizenship. Here is one of his official campaign ads.

    He is on record stating that you cannot have a nation without borders. He is the person who taught me that the people at the ratifying convention stated on the record that "obviously" it would not apply to people who were here illegally.
    Last edited by angelatc; 07-23-2016 at 03:12 PM.

  20. #47
    Juan, no comprendo... ""Now there's a lot of antagonism and resentment turned just automatically on immigrants," he continued. "You say, no not immigrants, it's just illegal immigrants. I do believe in legal immigration. I want to have a provision to obey those laws. You have to understand this in the context of the economy."

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    I understand how Paul feels. I also know that he tried, unsuccessfully, to get the Constitution amended so that illegally born babies would not automatically qualify for citizenship. Here is one of his official campaign ads.

    He is on record stating that you cannot have a nation without borders. He is the person who taught me that the people at the ratifying convention stated on the record that "obviously" it would not apply to people who were here illegally.
    He also said:

    Paul said he's not one of those politicians who believes that "barbed-wire fences and guns on our border will solve any of our problems." That's not, he said, the American way. And he doesn't think that a national identification card is the way to go.
    http://nation.foxnews.com/ron-paul/2...e-used-keep-us

    Rep. Ron Paul has a problem with the idea of a U.S. border fence.

    “The people that want big fences and guns, sure, we could secure the border,” the congressman noted. “A barbed wire fence with machine guns, that would do the trick. I don’t believe that is what America is all about.”

    “Every time you think about this toughness on the border and ID cards and REAL IDs, think it’s a penalty against the American people too. I think this fence business is designed and may well be used against us and keep us in. In economic turmoil, the people want to leave with their capital and there’s capital controls and there’s people controls. Every time you think about the fence, think about the fences being used against us, keeping us in.”
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 07-23-2016 at 03:22 PM.



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  23. #49
    So basically Paul did not have any solution. Sucks to be him.

    I have done a 180 on this issue. Send them home. Every single one of them. If they get caught twice, then they can go to prison before they go home.

    If you're trying to appeal to the anti-authoritarian in me, this is the one issue that won't work with. They are a problem, and it needs to be solved. There's no perfect solution, but at this point I'll settle for any solution that does not involve making them citizens.
    Last edited by angelatc; 07-23-2016 at 03:30 PM.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    So basically Paul did not have any solution.
    Ron absolutely has a solution.

    ZERO GOVT BENEFITS for non-citizens, no school, no medical, no food, no shelters, nothing
    apply for benefits? GTFO
    commit violent crime? GTFO

    Ron's solution is simple.

    Want to come to US and not be a citizen? Get a free market sponsor to cover your needs.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    Ron absolutely has a solution.

    ZERO GOVT BENEFITS for non-citizens, no school, no medical, no food, no shelters, nothing
    apply for benefits? GTFO
    commit violent crime? GTFO

    Ron's solution is simple.

    Want to come to US and not be a citizen? Get a free market sponsor to cover your needs.
    Also, stop bombing or meddling with foreign countries.Then maybe you won't have mass immigration.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilf View Post
    Also, stop bombing or meddling with foreign countries.Then maybe you won't have mass immigration.
    ++ END THE FED

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  27. #53
    Cash benefits to an illegal immigrant with no children who are US citizens? Not likely. Most everything else, ya.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Schools are state, not Federal, programs.
    What part of Department of Education did you miss? Go to Washington. It's there. They are the ones who attached all the strings to your tax dollars.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  29. #55
    Who funds public schools? http://blogs.census.gov/2012/06/21/e...they-spend-it/

    Based on these figures, the Federal Government provides about ten percent.

    Revenues for our nation’s public elementary-secondary school systems come primarily from local government sources of revenue (when combined) for a total of $261.4 billion in fiscal year 2010. When revenue sources are looked at independently, state sources to schools of formula assistance monies ($176.6 billion) are the largest single source of funding followed closely by local government receipts of property tax monies ($169.4 billion).
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 07-23-2016 at 10:34 PM.

  30. #56
    What was it the President said about bathrooms and witholding money?
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    What was it the President said about bathrooms and witholding money?
    I give up- what did he say? How much money does the Federal government provide?
    http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/12/politi...dministration/
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 07-23-2016 at 10:47 PM.

  33. #58
    A letter to school districts will go out Friday, adding to a highly charged debate over transgender rights in the middle of the administration’s legal fight with North Carolina over the issue. The declaration — signed by Justice and Education department officials — will describe what schools should do to ensure that none of their students are discriminated against.

    It does not have the force of law, but it contains an implicit threat: Schools that do not abide by the Obama administration’s interpretation of the law could face lawsuits or a loss of federal aid.


    Link
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  34. #59
    Yes, most public schools do get some Federal money. But how much is actually from the Federal government? Another source:

    http://www.centerforpubliceducation....rs-At-a-glance

    The federal government is not the biggest contributor. On average, federal funds currently make up approximately 9 percent of a school district’s budget. Individual states and local school districts add the rest. How much each state and district provides varies from state-to-state (U.S. Department of Education, 2007).

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Is a child born in the US an illegal immigrant?
    Yes. The 14th Amendment does not apply to illegals, the author said so much, and all it will take is a law passed by Congress to straighten this mess out.

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