Evidence for Ancient Giants - Purposely Removed. Why?

[Intoxiklown]

The first verse of the Bible says in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, as does Exodus 20:11 (where it says in six days God created both and all that in them is). The entirety of the earth and universe was created together at the same time, in one creation period. As for "the basis for a lot of the stories in the Old Testament," you have it backwards---the biblical account is the correct and oldest (transferred by oral tradition at first), the Sumerian and other versions are the later corruptions. God and Satan have been fighting an infowar over the ages, with the latter trying to block the truth with counterfeit scriptures or religions, and these issues are one front of that battle.

The Egyptians, understandably, would have naturally left out the extremely embarrassing episode of the Exodus from its records, including mention of the treatment of the Israelites that led to it. The demand for the Israelites to receive gold and silver was meant as compensation for having been enslaved for 400 years, and to specifically fulfill the prophesy to Abraham that his descendants would receive such possessions. God also displayed His tolerance and flexibility by relenting and modifying His stands based on the peoples' requests or behavior (this is not being "spiteful," but acting like a loving but stern parent).

No, you need to read. Genesis 1 and 2 are two separate creations. Scholars say it is simply a retelling of the same event, while others say it means God created the earth in it's "live" form more than once, due t ohim also destroying the earth.

And Sumer predates Christianity by a few thousand years. This is indisputable fact.

[Peace&Freedom]

No, you need to read. Genesis 1 and 2 are two separate creations. Scholars say it is simply a retelling of the same event, while others say it means God created the earth in it's "live" form more than once, due t ohim also destroying the earth.

And Sumer predates Christianity by a few thousand years. This is indisputable fact.

NO, Sumer does not predate the Bible, which is the point in question (but it's a complex subject, so I'm skipping the details). Genesis 1 and 2 are not two different origins, they are the same one, with the latter simply emphasizing the events involving Man more. The Bible was not divided into chapters and verses until the middle ages, the original text of Genesis 1, 2 etc was on ONE scroll. And the Exodus verse reaffirms there was a single creation of everything in one time frame.

[Ronin Truth]

NO, Sumer does not predate the Bible, which is the point in question (but it's a complex subject, so I'm skipping the details). Genesis 1 and 2 are not two different origins, they are the same one, with the latter simply emphasizing the events involving Man more. The Bible was not divided into chapters and verses until the middle ages, the original text of Genesis 1, 2 etc was on ONE scroll. And the Exodus verse reaffirms there was a single creation of everything in one time frame.

Well, I see the faith, ya got any EVIDENCE to back it up? How far back does Sumer history go............really?

[Peace&Freedom]

Well, I see the faith, ya got any EVIDENCE to back it up? How far back does Sumer history go............really?

Try:
https://answersingenesis.org/creatio...ancient-myths/

[Ronin Truth]

Try:
https://answersingenesis.org/creatio...ancient-myths/

Try:

https://www.bing.com/search?q=sitchi...144844be6740e9

[Intoxiklown]

NO, Sumer does not predate the Bible, which is the point in question (but it's a complex subject, so I'm skipping the details). Genesis 1 and 2 are not two different origins, they are the same one, with the latter simply emphasizing the events involving Man more. The Bible was not divided into chapters and verses until the middle ages, the original text of Genesis 1, 2 etc was on ONE scroll. And the Exodus verse reaffirms there was a single creation of everything in one time frame.

You do understand that Abraham was Sumerian, yeah? And the most telling fact that shows Sumer predates Christianity is the languages. Sumerian cuniform has no precuser, which is why there are not many people who can translate it. Not to mention Sumer dates to 5500 BC

However, this has nothing to do with Christianity, as it rests on faith in the ressurection of Christ.

[erowe1]

Most theologians explain dinosaurs by pointing to the fact there are two separate creations in Genesis.

That's not true.

[Ronin Truth]

You do understand that Abraham was Sumerian, yeah? And the most telling fact that shows Sumer predates Christianity is the languages. Sumerian cuniform has no precuser, which is why there are not many people who can translate it. Not to mention Sumer dates to 5500 BC

However, this has nothing to do with Christianity, as it rests on faith in the ressurection of Christ.

Actually the Sumerian clay tablets claim much, much older.

Why would they lie? Who would they be trying to impress?

[erowe1]

Actually the Sumerian clay tablets claim much, much older.

Which clay tablets? How old do they claim? And do you consider those claims (assuming you can find them) believable? If so, why?

[Intoxiklown]

That's not true.

I've read several citing the theory. But you're right, I should not have used the word most, but rather some.

[Ronin Truth]

Removed evidence. "What Anunnaki? We see/find no Anunnaki? Are you just plain flat nuts?"

[Peace&Freedom]

Actually the Sumerian clay tablets claim much, much older.

Why would they lie? Who would they be trying to impress?

Why are the biblical documents and chronologies questioned, but the non-biblical claims asserted on face value? The key alleged Sumerian tablets (as pointed out in the article I cited) date as late as 620 BC, 900 years AFTER the time of Moses. Why should we accept the chronologies it gives over older OT documents written circa 1500 BC? Don't fall for Satan's infowar, trust the biblical dates.

[Ronin Truth]

Why are the biblical documents and chronologies questioned, but the non-biblical claims asserted on face value? The key alleged Sumerian tablets (as pointed out in the article I cited) date as late as 620 BC, 900 years AFTER the time of Moses. Why should we accept the chronologies it gives over older OT documents written circa 1500 BC? Don't fall for Satan's infowar, trust the biblical dates.

I don't much care for dates, may I please have olives instead?

Question EVERYTHING!

https://answersingenesis.org/bible-h...ian-king-list/

[Intoxiklown]

Why are the biblical documents and chronologies questioned, but the non-biblical claims asserted on face value? The key alleged Sumerian tablets (as pointed out in the article I cited) date as late as 620 BC, 900 years AFTER the time of Moses. Why should we accept the chronologies it gives over older OT documents written circa 1500 BC? Don't fall for Satan's infowar, trust the biblical dates.

Sumer predates ancient Egypt. So far as we know now....it is the oldest civilization on earth. These references you are citing are indisputably wrong. Again, Sumer dates back to AT LEAST 5500BC. The only debate is it being possibly even older. Do you understand that pretty much everything your life revolves around today (math, concept of zero, music, art, medicine, money, law, school, economy, and on and on) all comes from that civilization?

Instead of denying fact, I would think you'd take notice that a VERY pagan society spawned Abraham, and a monotheistic religion.

[Ronin Truth]

Sumer predates ancient Egypt. So far as we know now....it is the oldest civilization on earth. These references you are citing are indisputably wrong. Again, Sumer dates back to AT LEAST 5500BC. The only debate is it being possibly even older. Do you understand that pretty much everything your life revolves around today (math, concept of zero, music, art, medicine, money, law, school, economy, and on and on) all comes from that civilization?

Instead of denying fact, I would think you'd take notice that a VERY pagan society spawned Abraham, and a monotheistic religion.

Check out the Sumerian King's list, for some very curious, interesting and enlightening timings.

[PaulConventionWV]

The Smithsonian has a very long and checkered history, of cover up, suppression and subterfuge.

You may, of course, believe as you wish.

You forgot to <shrug>.

[TheTexan]

The Smithsonian has a very long and checkered history, of cover up, suppression and subterfuge.

You may, of course, believe as you wish.

It's a common pattern, among Creation Deniers, to ignore the facts & science.

Like for example, the Smithsonian is still desperately clinging onto the archaic view that the Earth is round. (obviously - it isn't, or penguins would all be extinct)

[Suzanimal]

It's a common pattern, among Creation Deniers, to ignore the facts & science.

Like for example, the Smithsonian is still desperately clinging onto the archaic view that the Earth is roundoblate spheroid. (obviously - it isn't, or penguins would all be extinct)

You can thank AF

[erowe1]

Sumer predates ancient Egypt. So far as we know now....it is the oldest civilization on earth. These references you are citing are indisputably wrong. Again, Sumer dates back to AT LEAST 5500BC. The only debate is it being possibly even older.

Why do you believe all this?

[Intoxiklown]

Why do you believe all this?

It is very steeped (highly verified) through archaeological as well as geological evidence, but most importantly, astrological documents.

If you've read on the Sumerian civilization, it is really fascinating. They developed writing out of necessity, as they were very much trade based. So, they went from needing a way to simply keep track of shipments, inventory, and payments to needing to be able to send complex messages to their fastly growing sphere of influence. They documented this change in 3200BC. To put that in perspective for you as to where man was at that time, the closest man has found to a precusor to their cuniform text is cave drawings. Egyptian heiroglyphics came from this cuniform script a couple of hundred years later, most likely due to Sumerians trading with them.

The dates are verified due to other records found in that city by astrological records (certain comets, eclipses, ect). Make no mistake, when they started finding Sumerian cities, they WANTED to disprove their dates. Those cities should not have existed according to their models based on Social Darwinism. I'm sure you're familiar with the Epic of Gilgamesh? That's a Sumerian epic......written in 2200BC. The flood story? Also Sumerian. It's origin date is unknown, as it's known it was part of their oral history until a scholar wrote is down. Around 1900BC.

It was around 2000BC Sumer started to fall. There was a great drought, high evaporation lead to salt deposits in the soil, which brought famine. That, and no centralized defense for their states, they all fell. It was almost 300 years later before another civilization rose to power, Babylon.

Now, some people get off into alien theory with them, because they did make a lot of serious leaps from hunter gather to modeling what we use today as civilization. But, I look at what we've accomplished in 2,000 years and see very easily how they could achieve what they did in the same time span. That, and the only person who reads their creation story with such flair was one self taught scholar. With a language that a handful of people worldwide can read.

Abraham was from Ur, a Sumerian city. Ironically, this was the fact that I found the most enlightening when I was younger. My brain didn't reject things because the Old Testament was a little different. In fact, it explained many things about the Old Testament to me that wasn't sitting right. And for the record, the whole "Egypt didn't record defeats" is completely untrue. Egyptian records, that have survived, demonstrate that fact time and time again. They suffered horrible defeats against the Nubian empire during their constant warring, for example.

This is why I always say, when I get on this subject, that Christians should be very mindful concerning the Old Testament. I'm sorry, but anyone who wants to quote those stories as historical and accurate needs to use that mind God gave us. That's why I also always say, "but as a Christian, the accuracy of the Jewish origins is irrelevant. The faith of a Christian rises and falls with the ressurection of Christ.

[erowe1]

It is very steeped (highly verified) through archaeological as well as geological evidence, but most importantly, astrological documents.

If you've read on the Sumerian civilization, it is really fascinating. They developed writing out of necessity, as they were very much trade based. So, they went from needing a way to simply keep track of shipments, inventory, and payments to needing to be able to send complex messages to their fastly growing sphere of influence. They documented this change in 3200BC. To put that in perspective for you as to where man was at that time, the closest man has found to a precusor to their cuniform text is cave drawings. Egyptian heiroglyphics came from this cuniform script a couple of hundred years later, most likely due to Sumerians trading with them.

The dates are verified due to other records found in that city by astrological records (certain comets, eclipses, ect). Make no mistake, when they started finding Sumerian cities, they WANTED to disprove their dates. Those cities should not have existed according to their models based on Social Darwinism. I'm sure you're familiar with the Epic of Gilgamesh? That's a Sumerian epic......written in 2200BC. The flood story? Also Sumerian. It's origin date is unknown, as it's known it was part of their oral history until a scholar wrote is down. Around 1900BC.

It was around 2000BC Sumer started to fall. There was a great drought, high evaporation lead to salt deposits in the soil, which brought famine. That, and no centralized defense for their states, they all fell. It was almost 300 years later before another civilization rose to power, Babylon.

Now, some people get off into alien theory with them, because they did make a lot of serious leaps from hunter gather to modeling what we use today as civilization. But, I look at what we've accomplished in 2,000 years and see very easily how they could achieve what they did in the same time span. That, and the only person who reads their creation story with such flair was one self taught scholar. With a language that a handful of people worldwide can read.

Abraham was from Ur, a Sumerian city. Ironically, this was the fact that I found the most enlightening when I was younger. My brain didn't reject things because the Old Testament was a little different. In fact, it explained many things about the Old Testament to me that wasn't sitting right. And for the record, the whole "Egypt didn't record defeats" is completely untrue. Egyptian records, that have survived, demonstrate that fact time and time again. They suffered horrible defeats against the Nubian empire during their constant warring, for example.

This is why I always say, when I get on this subject, that Christians should be very mindful concerning the Old Testament. I'm sorry, but anyone who wants to quote those stories as historical and accurate needs to use that mind God gave us. That's why I also always say, "but as a Christian, the accuracy of the Jewish origins is irrelevant. The faith of a Christian rises and falls with the ressurection of Christ.

Where did you get the part about 5500 BC?

[Intoxiklown]

Where did you get the part about 5500 BC?

The actual beginning of the civilization. Even then they had writing, but what is called proto-cuniform. I skipped to the relevant parts.

[erowe1]

The actual beginning of the civilization. Even then they had writing, but what is called proto-cuniform. I skipped to the relevant parts.

My question was about your 5500 BC claim. So the part you skipped was the most relevant part. What's the evidence for that? You said it like it's beyond dispute.

[pcosmar]

How far back does Sumer history go............really?

some time (several generations) after the flood.
when there would have been enough people to build a city.

[Intoxiklown]

My question was about your 5500 BC claim. So the part you skipped was the most relevant part. What's the evidence for that? You said it like it's beyond dispute.

You didn't specify.

Vinca 'proto' script

Any more specific and I'll have to drive to your house, put you in my lap, and read the history book for you.

[Ronin Truth]

You didn't specify.

Vinca 'proto' script

Any more specific and I'll have to drive to your house, put you in my lap, and read the history book for you.

LOL!

[erowe1]

You didn't specify.

I did. I quoted a very specific part of your post and asked you about it.

[erowe1]

Vinca 'proto' script

Any more specific and I'll have to drive to your house, put you in my lap, and read the history book for you.

According to wikipedia, Vinca is not Sumerian. So I don't see how they could prove that Sumer has been around since 5500 BC, even if you accept that some Vinca tablets are that old. Regardless, I'm very skeptical that they have any way of knowing that it can be firmly dated to the centuries they claim.

[libertyjam]

You didn't specify.

Vinca 'proto' script

Any more specific and I'll have to drive to your house, put you in my lap, and read the history book for you.

For your amusement:

According to Harald Haarmann, a German linguistic and cultural scientist, currently, vice-president of the Danube script predates the Sumerian writings and should be considered as the oldest writing in the world. The inscriptions in tablets found from the Danube Valley Civilization date back to at least 5,500 BC, and the mysterious symbols that make up the written language are yet to be deciphered.The symbols seen on numerous tablets from the Danube civilization are also called the Vinca symbols and are found across multiple archeological sites across the Danube Valley areas. The symbols have been found to be recorded on pottery, figurines, spindles and other clay artifacts.

[Peace&Freedom]

Abraham was from Ur, a Sumerian city. Ironically, this was the fact that I found the most enlightening when I was younger. My brain didn't reject things because the Old Testament was a little different. In fact, it explained many things about the Old Testament to me that wasn't sitting right. And for the record, the whole "Egypt didn't record defeats" is completely untrue. Egyptian records, that have survived, demonstrate that fact time and time again. They suffered horrible defeats against the Nubian empire during their constant warring, for example.

This is why I always say, when I get on this subject, that Christians should be very mindful concerning the Old Testament. I'm sorry, but anyone who wants to quote those stories as historical and accurate needs to use that mind God gave us. That's why I also always say, "but as a Christian, the accuracy of the Jewish origins is irrelevant. The faith of a Christian rises and falls with the ressurection of Christ.

Which Ur? The Bible describes Abraham as coming from the Ur of the CHALDEES, which traditionally was understood to be Urfa, near Haran in Southern Turkey. This is an area north of the more southern region where the SUMERIAN city of Ur was more recently discovered (from excavations in the latter 19th century onward). The scriptures describe Abram/Abraham as nomadic, and from Ur wandered from Mesopotamia to Eygpt, but that does not mean he started from southern Ur, which was linguistically, ethnically, socially, politically, and geographically very different from a northern Mesopotamian culture.

Sumer Ur is not associated or ascribed expressly, in the many thousands of cuneiform records from that site, to the Chaldeans. This is why I do not affirm that Abraham is from Sumer, or to other dogmatic assertions made about the Sumerians, since there are different available interpretations of the evidence. Believers should use the mind God gave us to not discount the history He gave us, but to discern the truth by critically evaluating competing views about the data. IOW, don't reject the OT because the 'secular' data looks a little different here or there. Upon review, our understanding of that data can be shown to be defective, and the best interpretation will match the Bible.