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Thread: After Nice, Newt Gingrich wants to ‘test’ every Muslim in the U.S. and deport sharia believers

  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    I have no knowledge of Muslims, don't know any and am absolutely unqualified to judge one let along a whole batch.

    That said........Foreigners here in the Ozarks come from their cities, they bring their city ways and their city ideas, usually within 4-5 years they either acclimate or leave..I'd imagine Muslims would be the same.

    Honestly though it doesn't matter, the Fed-Gov and her enforcers have changed the character of these hills over the last 40 odd years to where city folk actually feel safe roaming around and trying to exert influence..

    Having lived here both with and without Feds and Fed money my opinion is that the Feds offer more trouble than merit..

    I'm sure people in the cities or on the coasts feel differently and I don't want my feeling or behavior to affect them any more than I want their behavior to affect me...

    To me the issue at large is the Fed-Gov more-so than the Muslims or Mexicans or any other race or religion....Without Fed-Gov to protect and support these newcomers they too would have to acclimate or leave..
    The difference is those settling in the Ozarks are mostly of other faiths. We are outnumbered by the majority of Sharia supporting Muslims in this world. You combine that with declining births of Christians in the US and opening up the flood gates to millions of them then it is a recipe for disaster. It would not be before long that you would be outnumbered in the Ozarks and/or surrounding region. There would be nothing you could do to stop them legislatively and in self defense since you would be outnumbered.

    It is not like we do not already see this kind of demographic change first hand. For example where I grew up it was 95% white European Christian of various faiths and was so at various places I worked or in my travels. Today I am the white minority in my community, in my travels and in the work place surrounded by people of various Christian faiths. Other than some anti-white bigots that make things problematic sometimes that I could do without, cultural differences and being the white outsider, everyone pretty much gets along.

    Looking at the Muslim world and how they treat those of other faiths when they are the majority would not be the same. It is bad enough that I have been discriminated against by the minority of African Americans and Latino bigots, but Sharia loving Muslims into the mix looks to be far worse.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.



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  3. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by willwash View Post
    Not really. Sharia itself is the biggest violation of the 1st Amendment of all and is therefore not to be tolerated in our country.
    Didn't Hitler say that the Jews were taking over Europe and that it was not to be tolerated in Germany?

    (I know, I know, I just made the Godwin Statement, OH HORRORS, but the comparisons between how the US is reacting to Muslims as to how Germany reacted to Jews is quite parallel, even if not popular. Of course the biggest difference is that Germany wasn't bombing Israel to pieces, while condemning them for any retaliation)

    And this is not a statement about you, willwash- I always enjoy your dialog.
    There is no spoon.

  4. #363
    I think testing and spying on americans is wrong. I think islam and the loss of rights is two front battle.

    -What if muslims is a tool for the feds to get more power? Most of us can agree that muslims are more susceptible to becoming radicalized and going on a jihad. Every time there is a shooting or bombing, we lose more of our rights and liberties. We already deal with crazy, ssri, doped up caucasians shooting up schools. No need to import more people who are more susceptible to go on mass killings too.

    Best way to avoid more terrorism is to at least stop migration from countries with islamic terrorism for an x amount of time. Less terrorism = less reason/excuse for government to take our rights and no need for tests. I never believed in open borders. The open border proponents here are doing the bidding for globalist and those that are for north american union. Once we have a north american union, you can kiss your constitution, federal, state, and local laws good bye. With blowback... why the hell do we want to import people who has a high chance of wanting to exact this blowback? We can import vietnamese and i can assure you none of them wants to blow us up or shoot us or go on jihad. Not even second or third generation vietnamese.

  5. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Didn't Hitler say that the Jews were taking over Europe and that it was not to be tolerated in Germany?

    (I know, I know, I just made the Godwin Statement, OH HORRORS, but the comparisons between how the US is reacting to Muslims as to how Germany reacted to Jews is quite parallel, even if not popular. Of course the biggest difference is that Germany wasn't bombing Israel to pieces, while condemning them for any retaliation)

    And this is not a statement about you, willwash- I always enjoy your dialog.
    Did the Jews kill those that did not convert to Judaism? Or if one left the Jewish faith were they put to death? (I think the Jews for Jesus movement would have been exterminated a while ago if so.) But maybe they were more radical that I realized.... Either way, there is a difference in wanting to have an ethnic cleanse to just have blond hair and blue eyes everywhere, and wanting to protect your family, beliefs, religion and most importantly liberty for all to coexist peacefully.
    I have seen through it all... the system is against us. ALL OF IT.

  6. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by Thor View Post
    Did the Jews kill those that did not convert to Judaism? Or if one left the Jewish faith were they put to death? (I think the Jews for Jesus movement would have been exterminated a while ago if so.) But maybe they were more radical that I realized.... Either way, there is a difference in wanting to have an ethnic cleanse to just have blond hair and blue eyes everywhere, and wanting to protect your family, beliefs, religion and most importantly liberty for all to coexist peacefully.
    A lot of stuff we are fed about Islam is pure propaganda. Here's an interesting article about some Muslim data:

    M. Steven Fish
    Crunching the Numbers 02.15.15 4:45 AM ET
    No, Islam Isn’t Inherently Violent, And The Math Proves It
    Despite recent attacks in Paris and Copenhagen, Westerners face very little risk from Islamist terrorists.

    There is a widely held belief in the United States today that Islam is a religion that goads its followers to violence. And indeed, global terrorism today is disproportionately an Islamist phenomenon, as I show in my recent book. The headlines in the past months have been full of Islamist-fueled violence, such as ISIS killing its hostages, the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in Paris, and yesterday’s attack on a Copenhagen café.

    And a cursory look at the data shows that from 1994-2008, I found that 204 high-casualty terrorist bombings occurred worldwide and that Islamists were responsible for 125, or 61 percent, of these incidents, accounting for 70 percent of all deaths.

    I exclude from the data all terrorist incidents that occurred in Iraq after the American invasion, and I consider attacks on occupying military forces anywhere to be guerilla resistance, not terrorism. I also use a restrictive definition of “Islamist” and classify attacks by Chechen separatists as ethnonational rather than Islamist terrorism. In other words, even when we define both “terrorism” and “Islamist” restrictively, thereby limiting the number of incidents and casualties that can be blamed on Islamists, Islamists come out as the prime culprits.

    So, all that would seem to suggest Islam is more violent, right?

    Not so. Rewind fifty or a hundred years and it was communists, anarchists, fascists, and others who thought than any means justified their glorious ends. Even now, Islamists are by no means the sole perpetrators. The Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka and Colombia’s “narcoterrorists” blow up civilians and have nothing to do with Islam. In the United States, law enforcement considers the “sovereign citizens movement” to be a greater threat than Islamist terrorists. However, Islamists do commit most of the terrorism globally these days.

    Look more closely, though, and you’ll see they don’t attack in the West very often. Of the 125 attacks committed by Islamists that I studied, 77—62 percent—of them were committed in predominantly Muslim countries, and their victims were overwhelmingly other Muslims. Another 40 attacks took place in just three countries—Israel, India, and the Philippines. Only four of the 125 attacks happened in the Western Hemisphere or Europe. They were ghastly and dramatic, just as they were intended to be. But they were, and still are, rare.

    That means the risk of an American being killed by any act of terrorism in a given year is roughly one in 3.5 million, and the chances are that the act of terrorism won’t be committed by an Islamist. These facts are all the more remarkable given how easy it is to be a terrorist. The attacks on Charlie Hebdo were well-planned, but any cretin acting alone can throw a homemade bomb into a crowded café—or walk into a classroom and open fire. Three million Muslims live in the United States, and odds of an American being crushed to death by their own furniture or television exceed those of being killed by an Islamist.

    Things get even more interesting when we look at other ways that people kill each other besides terrorism. In one of the most influential works of social science penned in the late 20th century, Samuel Huntington claimed that Muslim societies are “bloody.” He asserted that they experience more major intrastate political violence, meaning civil wars, rebellions, interethnic clashes, and sustained government repression. These types of violence claim far more lives than do terrorist acts, which take the form of one-off events.

    Huntington provided no support for his claim, and I tested it. The world experienced 235 episodes of intrastate violence that claimed over one thousand lives between 1946 and 2007. A total of just over 21 million people lost their lives in these conflicts.

    Huntington’s thesis about Muslim bloodiness fares badly when we look at the evidence. In predominantly Muslim countries, on average, 0.65 percent of the population perished in major episodes of intrastate violence. In non-Muslim countries, 0.72 percent died in such episodes on average. In the postwar period, Muslim countries suffered slightly less severely from loss of life in major episodes of political violence than non-Muslim countries.

    Analyzing the data is tricky. In order to have confidence in the results, it’s necessary to crunch the numbers in a multitude of ways. But any way you slice the data Huntington’s thesis falls flat. Muslim societies are not more prone to mass political violence than others.

    What about violent crime? Here Muslims are way behind the rest of us—and in a good way. Homicide rates in Muslim-majority countries average about two murders per annum per 100,000 people. In non-Muslim countries, the average rate is about 8 per 100,000. Murder rates fluctuate from year to year, but they are consistently low in Muslim societies. The homicide rate in Indonesia, the world’s largest Muslim country, is 1 per 100,000—one-fifth the rate of the world’s largest Christian country, the United States. Christian countries live with murder rates that are unknown in the Muslim world. Brazilians and Mexicans are used to murder rates in the 15-25 range; the rate in Venezuela tops 50. Turks, Egyptians, Iranians, and Malaysians live with rates in the 2-4 range. In a good year, Christian South Africa lives with a murder rate of around 30. In a bad year, the rate in Muslim Senegal is one-tenth of that. Anyone who is skeptical of these numbers is invited to walk through minaret-dotted Dakar and steeple-studded Johannesburg at night and compare their experiences in the two cities. For that matter, have a stroll after dark in the low-income areas of Istanbul or Ankara. Then do so in Philadelphia or Oakland.

    Differences this big call for an explanation. We can rule out several possibilities. One is that Muslims live under more authoritarian political regimes where the bad guys have more to fear from the authorities. In fact, the data show that authoritarian regimes do no better at controlling violent crime than democracies do. Even if Muslims generally live under harsher political regimes, they are not less prone to crime for that reason.

    Sacred texts don’t explain anything either. The Quran staunchly prohibits murder. But the Bible and the foundational texts of every other major religion do as well.

    But one possible explanation arises from the data: Greater socioeconomic inequality is correlated with higher homicide rates, and Muslim societies have comparatively low levels of inequality. The regions with the most murder, Latin America and southern Africa, also have the highest values on the so-called Gini score, the statistic that economists and political scientists use to measure class inequality. High economic inequalities (which is what a high Gini score indicates) and high murder rates go together. Statistical analysis shows that countries with proportionately larger Muslim populations have lower Gini scores and lower murder rates.

    We don’t yet know why Muslims have lower murder rates and lower economic inequalities, but we do know that they enjoy both. We also suspect that lower inequalities make for less social tension and less homicide.

    Are Muslims violent? These days, global terrorism is mainly Islamist. Even though the vast majority of Muslims oppose terrorism, it’s true their religion has a terrorism problem. Nothing is gained by denying it. But Islamists rarely strike targets in the West, and when it comes to mass political violence, Muslims do better, but only a tiny bit better, than others. They do far better at avoiding murder.

    As I get out of my car near home in Oakland tonight, I will miss the relative safety of the teeming slum I once lived near in Surabaya, Indonesia’s second-largest city. And while there are quite a few Muslims in my neighborhood in Oakland, I can’t say I’ll be on edge worrying about a terrorist attack. In fact, the guys in Muslim skullcaps and the women in hijabs I might run into tonight at the Arab-run convenience store down the street will be last folks I’ll fear.


    © 2016 The Daily Beast Company LLC
    There is no spoon.

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