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Thread: Noah's Ark Open For the World to See

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    There is a God... but he (it?) most certainly doesn't intervene in human affairs.
    This religious conviction, which you adopted by a leap of blind faith, is behind everything else you've said. Answering every single objection you have is as simple as rejecting this premise.



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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    This doesn't follow at all. The assumption that there's an external reality that we can observe and reason about doesn't require the further assumption of a supernatural cause that validates our sense experience.
    It's not the assumption that an external reality exists that we can observe and reason about that requires God. It's the assumption that your reasoning is trustworthy that requires God. On the assumption of naturalism, your own reasoning, being the results of purposeless causes, would not be trustworthy.

    Really, nobody needs to have God's existence proven to them, they just need to be honest with themselves that they already know he exists.

  4. #93
    Was there an ancient global deluge, mass extinction event? Who/what land creatures survived? When? How? How deep did the water get? Higher than the Himalaya peaks? The Alps, the Andes? Where did it all go afterward?

    (This is the kind of inquiry (among some others) that eventually got me dis-invited from Sunday school. )
    Last edited by Ronin Truth; 07-16-2016 at 12:35 PM.

  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Was there an ancient global deluge, mass extinction event? Who/what land creatures survived? When? How? How deep did the water get? Higher than the Himalaya peaks? The Alps, the Andes? Where did it all go afterward?
    The water that's on the earth now could easily cover the tops of all the mountains, just not at the heights that they are now, nor with the oceans being as deep as they are now. Flatten out all the land, and the earth's surface would be 100% covered with water.

  6. #95


    So....
    The man in the funny hat was pointing over the rail at the silvery snaking river
    at the very, very bottom of the most biggest GINORMOUS hole you've ever seen
    and telling all the people gathered around in their Hawaiian shirts and sunglasses...
    that it was the Colorado River and across just SO MUCH TIME... you just CAN'T imagine
    how much time... well... it just Carved and Carved and Carved on the hard rocky rock...
    and just kept carving and carving.. and THAT'S how we got the BIGGEST hole
    in the whole wide world.
    and then...
    that's when the little girl walked up.

    She just kept tugging on his coat... and of course, minding her manners.
    When the man in the funny hat finally stopped and looked down...
    She asked a simple question:
    "Where's all the dirt?"
    (that's a problem too.)


    ============================================

    **at the bottom of every major river system on earth is
    a Delta.... the Mississippi, the Ganges, the Nile etc. HERE

    There is NO DELTA at the 'bottom' of the Colorado River which,
    supposedly did all that 'carving' and formed the biggest hole on Earth.
    The depositions should be MASSIVE.... dried or wet.
    Depositions of any substance
    are simply not there... not current; not past.

    REMEMBER:
    No Catastrophes No Cataclysms... only 'slow & steady' has to explain it.
    Where's all the dirt?
    1,000 cubic miles of 'slow & steady' sediment
    Last edited by goldenequity; 07-16-2016 at 06:12 PM.

  7. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    The water that's on the earth now could easily cover the tops of all the mountains, just not at the heights that they are now, nor with the oceans being as deep as they are now. Flatten out all the land, and the earth's surface would be 100% covered with water.
    Of course if the Earth is only 6,000 years old, that great rising of the Himalayas must have happened in just a few thousand years.

    IF the earth was flat, why wasn't the land all covered in water before the 40 days and 40 nights of rain? Did the land sink in those 40 days? Did the bottom of the oceans rise up? The water had to come from someplace to be drawn up in to the sky, condense, and fall as rain.



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  9. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Did the land sink in those 40 days? Did the bottom of the oceans rise up?
    Most likely, yes.

    And then, at the end of the flood, God caused the land to be more varied in elevation again, with the water congregating in the oceans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    The water had to come from someplace to be drawn up in to the sky, condense, and fall as rain.
    It didn't only come down from above, it also came up from below.
    Last edited by erowe1; 07-16-2016 at 03:46 PM.

  10. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    On the assumption of naturalism, your own reasoning, being the results of purposeless causes, would not be trustworthy.
    I don't see how this follows at all.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  11. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    I don't see how this follows at all.
    It follows because your thoughts would have to be produced by a purposeless mechanism that has no interest in the concept of truth. This problem is especially apparent if you accept the theory of evolution. But I don't think there's any naturalistic alternative to evolution that could avoid it either. If you want to see this argued out in detail, see various works by Alvin Plantinga (and others), summarized here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolut...nst_naturalism

  12. #100
    I'm listening. The part about grizzlies in Ga was spot on, lol. He's actually rather entertaining.


    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    Here's an explanation of how dinosaurs fit in with the account of "Noah's Ark":

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  13. #101
    Nessie? Really? All these spottings and not one clear photo.

    He makes a lot of good points in the video and he was very entertaining but I'm not convinced.


    And what's wrong with watching people drink on tv? What if it's a show about the wedding at Cana?
    Last edited by Suzanimal; 07-16-2016 at 06:33 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  14. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by bunklocoempire View Post
    Yes, catastrophism. Mortal man isn't really big on accepting his lack of control, many exploit this.

    My 7th & 8th grade teacher was from Washington state, and we got to explore catastrophism relating to the aftermath of the 1980 Mt. St. Helens eruption. The realization of many logs getting "heavy" and sinking on one end was amazing for this kid.
    In 35+ years, it's really the only place I've come across this tree thing, without actively seeking it out.



    If anyone has been exposed to the "sinking trees" in their lifetime, without actively seeking it, I'd like to know. Curious.
    Am I the only mushroom?
    This covers the 'sinking trees' and 'where's all the dirt'



    =========================

    Dr. Walter Brown's HydroPlate Theory (that's where Hovind GOT the concepts from)

    This is a VERY brief overview by an 'older' Dr. Brown
    (and I mean VERY brief... REAMS of material have been written that further expand and explain
    the full impact of the hydroplate theory that cover stuff like 'crustal lightening' influencing/changing radiometric dating etc.
    Just depends on how curious and how deep you want to dig.)



    I saw him in the 80's.... he looked more like this



    ======================

    Hydroplate Theory

    He turns 79 this year and lives in Phoenix, Arizona.

    Here is how Brown summarizes this theory:

    The hydroplate theory has three starting assumptions. All else follows from them and the laws of physics. Proposed explanations for past events always have some initial conditions. Usually they are not mentioned.

    Assumption 1: Subterranean Water. About half the water now in the oceans was once in interconnected chambers about 10 miles below the entire earth’s surface. At thousands of locations, the chamber’s sagging ceiling pressed against the chamber’s floor. These solid contacts will be called pillars.The average thickness of the subterranean water was at least ž mile. Above the subterranean water was a granite crust; beneath that water was earth’s mantle. [See Figure 54.]

    Assumption 2: A Global Continent. The earth’s preflood crust encircled the globe. On the crust were deep and shallow seas, and mountains, generally smaller than those of today, but some perhaps 5,000 feet high.

    Assumption 3: An Initial Crack. A small initial crack occurred in the earth’s crust. (Later, several ways this crack could have started will be mentioned.) The basic forces that quickly propagated the crack around the earth will soon be explained. (pages 123-124)

    The theory also has four phases: Rupture, Flood, Drift, and Recovery.
    Last edited by goldenequity; 07-17-2016 at 08:26 AM.

  15. #103
    This one goes deeper and stays on target
    taking the time necessary
    to explain some of the nuances of the Rupture, Flood, Drift and Recovery phases..
    the mid oceanic rifts, hydro tectonics etc.

    In this excerpt video by Bob Enyart are compiled 'snips' from a seminar
    promoting/contrasting the hydroplate theory over competing biblical/creation theories
    like catastrophic plate tectonics theory (CPT) and the vapor canopy theory.



    **(for Bible Students/Christians: a critical/in-depth teaching on 'the firmament' of Day 2 is HERE
    (Email: From Walt Brown to Bob Enyart on March 22, 2005: "Dear Bob, I like your proposal concerning Genesis 1:8a, and after much thought, have decided to include it [in the 8th edition of In the Beginning]. I have credited Pastor Diego Rodriguez and you as the originators of this very attractive explanation. ... Thank you for sending me your explanation. -Walt")
    Enyart references and quotes from a seminal work (Genesis Flood, 1st Creation Science book I ever read... that's like dictionary thick)
    by the GODFATHER of Catastrophism: Dr. Henry Morris, The Genesis Flood, 1961 / The Genesis Record, 1976

    How deep do you want to go?
    Want to get into the Z-pinch and the heavy elements??
    (origins of radioactivity... but, but... that would include Carbon dating!!! yep. )



    Awesome that this guy is animating and explaining what was previously only in print.
    This one is only 6 days old.



    His channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGB...NCI8ppLIQOHmFg

    =================================

    Here is Dr. Walter Brown's book online:
    In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood, 8th edition, 2008
    This book online is 'textbook' size and can't be tackled in one sitting... maybe a 'chapter'
    here's one of my favorite pages.
    Last edited by goldenequity; 07-18-2016 at 08:12 AM.

  16. #104

    Freedom From Religion Foundation is Scared of the Ark Encounter

    Once again, secular humanists prove how they don't want any other religious worldview to compete with their own by preempting free speech. They are trying to convince public schools to not have field trips to the Ark Encounter, but what is the harm in having students presented with another perspective that may get them thinking differently about what they've been taught in the public schools (Yes, I know we shouldn't have public schools, but that's beside the point...)?

    Shouldn't secularists be thrilled to have students visit places like the Ark Encounter, where the assumptions and evidences for a global flood can be challenged in the public's eye, even if it discredits their work? I thought secularist humanists were "free-thinkers," after all. They sure are going through a lot of pains to keep people away from a supposed myth instead of opening a dialogue in the pursuit of truth, no matter where the evidences lie. It smells like fear, to me.

    Ken Ham writes:

    The secularist group Freedom From Religion Foundation (FRFF) is once again engaged in bullying tactics to thwart the First Amendment’s guarantee of freedom of religion and free exercise of religion under the Constitution. Here is another instance of the FFRF attempting to intimidate public schools.

    FFRF published a press release with the headline: “FFRF Warning More Than 1,000 School Districts About New ‘Noah’s Ark.’”

    In the article, they stated:

    The Freedom From Religion Foundation is advising public schools in more than 1,000 school districts against visiting a new religious theme park. . . . FFRF is already receiving inquiries from concerned parents that overzealous teachers or principals may mistakenly believe it appropriate to schedule school-related trips to the Ark Encounter, as has happened with the Creation Museum. In order to allay such concerns and to remind public schools of their constitutional obligations, it is sending a memo to every school district in Kentucky, Tennessee, Indiana, West Virginia and Ohio.

    Actually, FFRF is undermining or encouraging the violation of the First Amendment by bullying school districts with this threat. (Their usual threatening technique is to try to intimidate people to do what FFRF wants—not what the Constitution of the United States of America guarantees!)
    Read more about it here.
    "Then David said to the Philistine, 'You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of Yahweh of hosts, the God of the battle lines of Israel, Whom you have reproached.'" - 1 Samuel 17:45

    "May future generations look back on our work and say that these were men and women who, in moment of great crisis, stood up to their politicians, the opinion-makers, and the Establishment, and saved their country." - Dr. Ron Paul



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  18. #105

    "Eat the Meat, and Spit Out the Bones"

    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Nessie? Really? All these spottings and not one clear photo.

    He makes a lot of good points in the video and he was very entertaining but I'm not convinced.


    And what's wrong with watching people drink on tv? What if it's a show about the wedding at Cana?
    Yeah, I don't agree with Dr. Hovind on many theological points, especially as his ones against alcohol consumption. But, nonetheless, you should watch his other seminars to get a full scope on what he's talking about.

    With the Loch Ness Monster, it's not like people have their cameras ready when a sighting happens, just like when an accident occurs no one can take a picture of the actual accident. It's an unexpected event, so you would not expect there to be many photos of sightings like the Loch Ness Monster. But the fact that there are so many accounts of seeing plesiosaurian creatures all around the world is quite compelling that such creatures still exist today.
    "Then David said to the Philistine, 'You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of Yahweh of hosts, the God of the battle lines of Israel, Whom you have reproached.'" - 1 Samuel 17:45

    "May future generations look back on our work and say that these were men and women who, in moment of great crisis, stood up to their politicians, the opinion-makers, and the Establishment, and saved their country." - Dr. Ron Paul

  19. #106
    Which way to the dinosaurs and unicorns exhibits?

  20. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    what is the harm in having students presented with another perspective that may get them thinking differently about what they've been taught in the public schools
    Would you feel the same way if the field trip was to a mosque, a Buddhist temple, or an atheist reading room?
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  21. #108

    It's Not Too Far From the Ark...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Which way to the dinosaurs and unicorns exhibits?
    You find them here.
    "Then David said to the Philistine, 'You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of Yahweh of hosts, the God of the battle lines of Israel, Whom you have reproached.'" - 1 Samuel 17:45

    "May future generations look back on our work and say that these were men and women who, in moment of great crisis, stood up to their politicians, the opinion-makers, and the Establishment, and saved their country." - Dr. Ron Paul

  22. #109

    Truth Doesn't Hide From Lies

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Would you feel the same way if the field trip was to a mosque, a Buddhist temple, or an atheist reading room?
    Yes.
    "Then David said to the Philistine, 'You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of Yahweh of hosts, the God of the battle lines of Israel, Whom you have reproached.'" - 1 Samuel 17:45

    "May future generations look back on our work and say that these were men and women who, in moment of great crisis, stood up to their politicians, the opinion-makers, and the Establishment, and saved their country." - Dr. Ron Paul

  23. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    also to keep this on topic, cleaning the stalls on the arc would have been a pretty big job.
    ... We had to wash all the animals we had to feed them too
    We were merely human slaves in a big floating zoo ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-82ubie58E
    The Bastiat Collection ˇ FREE PDF ˇ FREE EPUB ˇ PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    ˇ tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ˇ

  24. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    Yeah, I don't agree with Dr. Hovind on many theological points, especially as his ones against alcohol consumption. But, nonetheless, you should watch his other seminars to get a full scope on what he's talking about.

    With the Loch Ness Monster, it's not like people have their cameras ready when a sighting happens, just like when an accident occurs no one can take a picture of the actual accident. It's an unexpected event, so you would not expect there to be many photos of sightings like the Loch Ness Monster. But the fact that there are so many accounts of seeing plesiosaurian creatures all around the world is quite compelling that such creatures still exist today.
    Been to Loch Ness and everyone there had a camera looking for the monster.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  25. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Been to Loch Ness and everyone there had a camera looking for the monster.
    200,000 people visit a year. Surely somebody would have seen and photographed something. They have also scanned the entire loch from one end to the other and found no evidence of a large creature.
    http://www.gizmag.com/robot-underwater-nessie/42800/

    There have been sporadic sightings of what is purported to be the Loch Ness Monster since the first recorded encounter by St Columba in 565 AD. After a supposed photograph was taken in 1933, public interest in some sort of large, dinosaur-like creature making its home in the Highlands skyrocketed, and in the decades since the loch has been subjected to sonar scans, submersible hunts, hydrophone surveys, and enough photographs taken above and below the surface to wallpaper the Grand Canyon.

    However, despite all this effort, no conclusive evidence for the existence of Nessie, as it is nicknamed, has ever been found.
    Coelacanths and sharks are the closest thing to "living dinosaurs" we have today. Or crocs and alligators.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 07-18-2016 at 06:22 PM.



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  27. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    200,000 people visit a year. Surely somebody would have seen and photographed something. They have also scanned the entire loch from one end to the other and found no evidence of a large creature.
    http://www.gizmag.com/robot-underwater-nessie/42800/



    Coelacanths and sharks are the closest thing to "living dinosaurs" we have today. Or crocs and alligators.
    They have a big fake Nessie right there by the water.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

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