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Thread: The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You to Read

  1. #1

    The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You to Read

    The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You to Read

    (And no, it's not the Bible.......this time.)

    From Amazon:
    It's past time to expose the truth about religion myths, frauds, fantasies and fiction from End-times to Virgin Birth to Sun Worship. Now into its 3rd printing. A Best-seller. This popular anthology tells it all, the textbook of Freethought, edited by Tim C. Leedom.
    The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You To Read (pdf)

    There's also a sequel.



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  3. #2
    Ronin, I'd like to ask you something. Do you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord, Savior, and God? Admittedly, that isn't a fair question to generally ask someone out of the blue but since you do tend to use the platform to consistently protest our churches and varying faiths, I think it's fair to ask. Once or twice, I wouldn't give it a second thought. But it's a consistent trend. So, then, I'm interested in your answer. Reason I ask is that I'm just trying to determine what it is that you're trying to accomplish. Seriously.

    So, do you, Ronin? Do you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord, Savior, and God? Fitty fitty shot here, man. Yes or no? Whether you do or you do not won' affect my day one bit.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 06-28-2016 at 06:39 AM.

  4. #3
    Let me tell you something, Ronin: Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against the church.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  5. #4
    This should be in the religion sub forum.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    This should be in the religion sub forum.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    This should be in the religion sub forum.
    Why, it's a book? Don't books belong here?

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Why, it's a book? Don't books belong here?
    It's about religion. Therefore, it's going to devolve. So, no.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Let me tell you something, Ronin: Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against the church.
    He probably meant his church, not Rome's AKA 'Christianity' (so called).



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    It's about religion. Therefore, it's going to devolve. So, no.
    Well, FWIW, I still think it's about books.

    Do you differentiate between religion and church?

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Well, FWIW, I still think it's about books.
    I think you can tell already the way the discussion is going...it's not about a book.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    I think you can tell already the way the discussion is going...it's not about a book.
    That would seem to be a poster's choice thing.

    Do you differentiate between religion and church?

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Ronin, I'd like to ask you something. Do you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord, Savior, and God? Admittedly, that isn't a fair question to generally ask someone out of the blue but since you do tend to use the platform to consistently protest our churches and varying faiths, I think it's fair to ask. Once or twice, I wouldn't give it a second thought. But it's a consistent trend. So, then, I'm interested in your answer. Reason I ask is that I'm just trying to determine what it is that you're trying to accomplish. Seriously.

    So, do you, Ronin? Do you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord, Savior, and God? Fitty fitty shot here, man. Yes or no? Whether you do or you do not won' affect my day one bit.
    Nope, but I really like Jesus. Are you a follower of Paul?

    "This world is not my home. I'm just passing through."
    Last edited by Ronin Truth; 06-28-2016 at 08:20 AM.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Nope, but I really like Jesus.
    Oh, okay. I see. Thank You for answering my question. So, then, a non-Christian scholar, I assume.

    Are you a follower of Paul?

    "This world is not my home. I'm just passing through."

    I'm a Natural Ciizen.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Oh, okay. I see. Thank You for answering my question. So, then, a non-Christian scholar, I assume.



    I'm a Natural Ciizen.
    Well, I don't know about scholar, but most definitely non-Christian (AKA non-Paulinist).

    Are you a follower of Paul?

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Well, FWIW, I still think it's about books.

    Do you differentiate between religion and church?
    That sub forum doesn't.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    That sub forum doesn't.
    Do YOU differentiate between religion and church?



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  20. #17
    Lord, please deliver us from the busy body, know it all, RPF moderators. And teach them the errors of their ways.

    Thanks!

    Amen.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Oh, okay. I see. Thank You for answering my question. So, then, a non-Christian scholar, I assume.
    I would suggest non-Christian, non-scholar.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Are you a follower of Paul?
    Saying it doesn't make it so.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Saying it doesn't make it so.
    Not answering the question, doesn't stop making it a question. So I'll just take that as a 'Yes'.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    I would suggest non-Christian, non-scholar.
    Seems pretty close, now just add in 'really likes Jesus'. And you're almost there.

  25. #22
    Son-of-a-gun manually scanned 463 pages of a bound book lol

    that's a pretty big chore.
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Not answering the question, doesn't stop making it a question. So I'll just take that as a 'Yes'.
    Sir, you may not label me according to your own thinking. You have no authority or education to address anything concerning me or what I believe. All you know is what you read on Google links. No scholarship whatever.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  27. #24
    This is an interesting exerpt:

    The following is a list of writers who lived and wrote during the time, or within a century after the time, that Christ is said to have lived and performed his wonderful works:

    Josephus Persius Arrian
    Pompon Mela Philo-Judaeus Plutarch
    Petronius Quintius Curtius Seneca
    Justus of Tiberius Dion Pruseus Lucian
    Pliny the Elder Apollonius Paterculus
    Pausanias Suetonius Pliny the Younger
    Appian Valerius Flaccus Juvenal
    Tacitus Theon of Smyran Florus Lucius
    Martial Quintilian Phlegon
    Favorinus Lucanus Phaedrus
    Epictetus Damis Silius ltalicus
    Aulus Gellius Statius Columella
    Ptolemy Dio Chrysostom Hermogones
    Lysias Valerius Maximus

    Enough of the writings of the authors named in the foregoing list remains to form a library. Yet in this mass of Jewish and Pagan literature, aside from two forged passages in the works of a Jewish author, and two disputed passages in the works of Roman writers, there is to be found no mention of Jesus Christ.

    Philo was born before the beginning of the Christian era, and lived until long after the reputed death of Christ. He wrote an account of the Jews covering the entire time that Christ is said to have existed on earth. He was living in or near Jerusalem when Christ's miraculous birth and the Herodian massacre occurred. He was there when Christ made his triumphal entry into Jerusalem. He was there when the crucifixion with its attendant earthquake, supernatural darkness, and resurrection of the dead took place - when Christ himself rose from the dead, and in the presence of many witnesses ascended into heaven.

    These marvelous events which must have filled the world with amazement, had they really occurred, were unknown to him. It was Philo who developed the doctrine of the Logos, or Word, and although this Word incarnate dwelt in that very land and in the presence of multitudes revealed himself and demonstrated his divine powers, Philo saw it not.

    Josephus, the renowned Jewish historian, was a native of Judea. He was born in 37 A.D., and was a contemporary of the Apostles. He was, for a time~ Governor of Galilee, the province in which Christ lived and taught. He traversed every part of this province and visited the places where but a generation before Christ had performed his prodigies. He resided in Cana, the very city in which Christ is said to have wrought his first miracle. He mentions every important event which occurred there during the first seventy years of the Christian era. But Christ was of too little consequence and his deeds too trivial to merit a line from this historian's pen.

    Justus of Tiberius was a native of Christ's own country, Galilee. He wrote a history covering the time of Christ's reputed existence. This work has perished, but Photius, a Christian scholar and critic of the ninth century, who was acquainted with it, says: He (Justus) makes not the least mention of the appearances of Christ, of what things happened to him, or of the wonderful works that he did" (Photius' Bibliotheca, code 33)

    Judea, where occurred the miraculous beginning and marvelous ending of Christ's earthly career, was a Roman province, and all of Palestine is intimately associated with Roman history. But the Roman records of that age contain no mention of Christ and his works. Greek writers of Greece and Alexandria who lived not far from Palestine and who were familiar with its events, are silent also.

    Josephus: Late in the first century, Josephus wrote his celebrated work, The Antiquities of the Jews, giving a history of his race from the earliest ages down to his own time. Modern versions of this work contain the following passage:

    Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works; a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was (the) Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day. (Book XVIII, Chap. iii, sec. 3)

    For nearly sixteen hundred years Christians have been citing this passage as a testimonial, not merely to the historical existence, but to the divine character of Jesus Christ. And yet a ranker forgery was never penned.

    Its language is Christian. Every line proclaims it the work of a Christian writer. "If it be lawful to call him a man." "He was the Christ." "He appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him."

    These are the words of a Christian, a believer in the divinity of Christ. Josephus was a Jew, a devout believer in the Jewish faith the last man in the world to acknowledge the divinity of Christ. The inconsistency of this evidence was early recognized, and Ambrose, writing in the generation succeeding its first appearance (360 A.D.), offers the following explanation, which only a theologian could frame:

    If the Jews do not believe us, let them, at least, believe their own writers. Josephus, whom they esteem a great man, hath said this, and yet hath he spoken truth after such a manner; and so far was his mind wandered from the right way, that even he was not a believer as to what he himself said; but thus he spake, in order to deliver historical truth, because he thought it not lawful for him to deceive, while yet he was no believer, because of the hardness of his heart, and his perfidious intention.

    Its brevity disproves its authenticity. Josephus' work is voluminous and exhaustive. It comprises twenty books. Whole pages are devoted to petty robbers and obscure seditious leaders. Nearly forty chapters are devoted to the life of a single king. Yet this remarkable being, the greatest product of his race, a being of whom the prophets foretold ten thousand wonderful things, a being greater than any earthly king, is dismissed with a dozen lines.

    The Four Gospels were unknown to the early Christian Fathers. Justin Martyr, the most eminent of the early Fathers, wrote about the middle of the second century. His writings in proof of the divinity of Christ demanded the use of these Gospels had they existed in his time. He makes more than 300 quotations from the books of the Old Testament, and nearly one hundred from the Apocryphal books of the New Testament; but none from the four Gospels. Rev. Giles says:

    The very names of the Evangelists, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, are never mentioned by him (Justin)- do not occur once in all his writings.

    Papias, another noted Father, was a contemporary of Justin. He refers to writings of Matthew and Mark, but his allusions to them clearly indicate that they were not the Gospels of Matthew and Mark. Dr. Davidson, an English authority on the canon, says: "He (Papias) neither felt the want nor knew the existence of inspired Gospels."

    **********************
    Excerpts from John E. Remsburg's book: The Christ reprinted by Prometheus Books, New York, 1994.
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesiv1 View Post
    This is an interesting exerpt:
    Christ came a lamb, in a manger, a baby in a cave. To those who sensed the sign of the times, He did make an impression. To those who saw Him raised from the dead, He changed their entire lives. To those who did not believe, He was barely something to mention : A magician, or charlatan, not worthy of the ink and scroll.

    Christ came a lamb. He is coming back a lion.
    Last edited by TER; 06-28-2016 at 10:11 PM.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesiv1 View Post
    This is an interesting exerpt:
    Perhaps interesting, but incorrect. He should read Martyr's dialogue with Trypho (among many other things). You can read many volumes of the Church Fathers here free of charge: http://www.earlychristianwritings.co...chfathers.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    Christ came a lamb, in a manger, a baby in a cave. To those who sensed the sign of the times, He did make an impression. To those who saw Him raised from the dead, He changed their entire lives. To those who did not believe, He was barely something to mention : A magician, or charlatan, not worthy of the ink and scroll.

    Christ came a lamb. He is coming back a lion.
    Amen
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You to Read
    My Church does not support banning books.

    Seeking truth is encouraged.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Perhaps interesting, but incorrect. He should read Martyr's dialogue with Trypho (among many other things). You can read many volumes of the Church Fathers here free of charge: http://www.earlychristianwritings.co...chfathers.html
    Wait. wtf. What do you mean by "Church Fathers?"

    'splain yoself, man.

    What's all of that in Matthew 23:9 about?

    ....call no man your father upon the Earth and whatnot.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 06-28-2016 at 10:53 PM.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Wait. wtf. What do you mean by "Church Fathers?"

    'splain yoself, man.

    What's all of that in Matthew 23:9 about?

    ....call no man your father upon the Earth and whatnot.
    It's a title given to those men who founded and/or nourished the Christian Church (now distinguished by the term "Orthodox" because of all the schisms and heresies and whatnot that have arisen over the years) in the first millennium.

    https://orthodoxwiki.org/Church_FathersWho are the Fathers?

    Those fathers who wrote in Latin are generally called the Latin Fathers, and those who wrote in Greek the Greek Fathers. The very earliest Church Fathers, of the first two generations after the Apostles of Christ, are usually called the Apostolic Fathers.
    Famous Latin Fathers include Tertullian, St. Augustine of Hippo, St. Ambrose of Milan, and St. Jerome, the translator of the Vulgate; famous Greek Fathers include St. Irenaeus of Lyons (whose work has survived only in Latin translation), Clement of Alexandria, Origen, St. Athanasius of Alexandria, St. John Chrysostom, and the three Cappadocian Fathers, Ss. Basil the Great, Gregory the Theologian, and Gregory of Nyssa. There are many more, however.
    The Desert Fathers were early monastics living in the Egyptian desert; although they did not write as much, their influence was also great. Among them are Ss. Anthony the Great and Pachomius the Great. A great number of their usually short sayings is collected in the Apophthegmata Patrum.
    A small number of other Fathers wrote in other languages: Ephrem the Syrian, for example, wrote in Syriac, but his works were widely translated into Latin and Greek.
    Though the Roman Catholic Church regards the 8th century St. John of Damascus to be the last of the Church Fathers, the Orthodox Church does not consider the age of Church Fathers to be over at all and it includes later influential writers in the term.
    The Consensus Patrum

    It should be noted that not all of the Fathers are considered to be saints, and certainly none of them are regarded as infallible, most especially those who fell into heresy, such as Tertullian and Origen. The Orthodox Church looks rather to the consensus patrum—that is, the consensus of the Fathers—for its understanding of the patristic Orthodox faith.
    Further reading

    Published works



    The following are published collections of the writings of the Church Fathers, listed by the faith of the editor(s):
    Catholic


    Protestant


    External links


    Last edited by heavenlyboy34; 06-28-2016 at 11:56 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

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