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Thread: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

  1. #1

    California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

    http://www.mercurynews.com/business/...ered-residents

    06/20/2016 By George Avalos

    Living in San Jose, Kathleen Eaton seemingly had it all: a well-paying job, a home in a gated community, even the Bay Area's temperate weather.

    But enduring a daily grind that made her feel like a "gerbil on a wheel," Eaton reached her limit.

    Skyrocketing costs for housing, food and gasoline, along with the area's insufferable gridlock, prompted the four-decade Bay Area resident to seek greener pastures -- 2,000 miles away in Ohio.

    "It was a struggle in California," Eaton said. "It was a very difficult place to live. ... It's a vicious circle."

    Eaton is far from alone.

    A growing number of Bay Area residents -- besieged by home prices, worsening traffic, high taxes and a generally more expensive cost of living -- believe life would be better just about anywhere else but here.

    During the 12 months ending June 30, the number of people leaving California for another state exceeded by 61,100 the number who moved here from elsewhere in the U.S., according to state Finance Department statistics. The so-called "net outward migration" was the largest since 2011, when 63,300 more people fled California than entered.

    "The main factors are housing costs in many parts of the state, including coastal regions of California such as the Bay Area," said Dan Hamilton, director of economics with the Economic Forecasting Center at California Lutheran University in Thousand Oaks.

    "California has seen negative outward migration to other states for 22 of the last 25 years."

    A recent poll revealed that an unsettling sense of yearning has descended on people in the Bay Area: About one-third of those surveyed by the Bay Area Council say they would like to exit the nine-county region sometime soon.

    "They are tired of the expense of living here. They are tired of the state of California and the endless taxes here," said Scott McElfresh, a certified moving consultant. "People are getting soaked every time they turn around."

    The area's sizzling job market and robust economy have created a domino effect: income spikes for highly trained workers, more people packing the area's roads, red-hot demand for housing.

    What's more, the technology boom has unleashed a hiring spree that has intensified the desire for homes anywhere near the job hubs of Santa Clara County, the East Bay and San Francisco. The South Bay job market has hit an all-time high after a 5,800-position surge in May, fueling an overall gain of 3,400 jobs for the Bay Area, according to a state labor report released Friday.

    The region's soaring housing prices are a key factor driving dissatisfied residents toward the exit door. Several people who have departed, or soon will leave, say they potentially could have hundreds of thousands of dollars left over even after buying a house in their new locations.

    "They're taking advantage of the housing bubble right now," McElfresh said. "The majority of the people we are seeing are moving to states that don't have state income taxes."

    Thomas Norman, of San Francisco, said he and his wife, Patricia, are seriously considering leaving the Bay Area. They have actively scouted for houses in the Rocky Mountains region, including a trip to Colorado to look for prospective homes.

    "The inconvenience of the Bay Area is a major factor," said Thomas Norman, a lifelong Bay Area resident burdened by a two-hour round-trip commute to an East Bay optometry practice. "The traffic is very bad. It is becoming more congested with all the housing that is being added here."

    Eaton, who left the South Bay to relocate near Dayton, Ohio, cited the high cost of living as a major factor driving her decision. The struggle to make ends meet became too much.

    "You can't get ahead," Eaton said. "It's more than the cost of living; it's the high taxes."

    Eaton and her sister had a $724,000 house in The Villages in South San Jose that they sold before moving to Ohio. Their mortgage payments were $2,200 a month, plus $1,000 for association fees in the gated community. They were able to pay $300,000 in cash for their new home in Ohio.

    Priya Govindarajan, a San Francisco resident, is planning to leave the Bay Area at the end of June and head with her husband, Ajay Patel, to North Carolina.

    Govindarajan, who works in the consumer packaged goods industry, and her husband, who is in the medical profession, determined that their wages aren't going far enough to cover their living expenses.

    Living in UC San Francisco housing, the couple pays $2,100 a month in rent. And they have to cough up $1,900 a month for child care.

    "My husband's salary would be in the six figures, but six figures is not enough to cover the rent, day care (and) food prices," Govindarajan said. "It all starts to add up."

    Govindarajan said she figures they can put down 20 percent on a nice house in North Carolina and have a monthly payment of $1,800 -- which would include the mortgage, property taxes and insurance.

    "I get why people want to live in the Bay Area, I really do," Govindarajan said. "But it is so difficult to live here, especially for people coming here for the first time."

    Some experts believe the boom in the Bay Area has exacerbated the problem of income inequality and the resentment that can accompany that economic reality.

    "There is a declining middle class in the Bay Area," said Christopher Hoene, executive director of the California Budget & Policy Center, a research group that recently completed a study about income inequality in Silicon Valley. "Widening income inequality can create polarization socially and economically."

    In 1989, the middle class accounted for 56 percent of all households in Silicon Valley, but by 2013, that share had slipped to 45.7 percent, the study found.

    "The region's middle class has shrunk, while the numbers of lower-income and higher-income households has grown," the report stated. Silicon Valley, for the purposes of the study, consists of Santa Clara County, San Mateo County and San Francisco.

    Lower-income residents accounted for 30.3 percent of Silicon Valley's households in 1989, and that number grew to 34.8 percent in 2013. Upper-income residents had 13.7 percent of the share of households in 1989, and that figure swelled to 19.5 percent in 2013, the study found.

    "A lot of middle-class jobs have vaporized," said Russell Hancock, president of San Jose-based Joint Venture Silicon Valley. "The support positions, the assembly line positions, the jobs that paid the middle class -- a lot of those have gone away."

    A big chunk of the jobs that are being created in the Bay Area are in the high-tech sector, which requires specialized skill sets to fill them. When jobs that would cater to the middle class wane, that can force people to relocate -- in many cases, out of the Bay Area entirely.

    "This summer, I have booked more business than in any of the other 27 years that I've been working," said McElfresh, the moving consultant. "People are packing up and leaving."

    Eaton, while happy to have escaped the high cost of living and traffic, recently found herself longing for one Bay Area staple -- its mild weather.

    "There's a huge thunderstorm overhead," Eaton said while talking to a reporter. "Got to get used to that, I guess."
    Last edited by timosman; 06-28-2016 at 02:20 AM.



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  3. #2
    Supply and demand. People want to live here so they are willing to pay higher prices to do so. Housing prices (and prices of everything else) can only rise if people are willing to pay the prices they are asking. If demand falls, housing prices will fall also. I hear Detroit is pretty affordable. Article is on the Bay Area which has always been expensive.

    The area's sizzling job market and robust economy have created a domino effect: income spikes for highly trained workers, more people packing the area's roads, red-hot demand for housing.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 06-28-2016 at 03:12 AM.

  4. #3
    I would prefer a third world country over the bay area. Same amount of communists , cheaper prices.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Supply and demand. People want to live here so they are willing to pay higher prices to do so. Housing prices (and prices of everything else) can only rise if people are willing to pay the prices they are asking. If demand falls, housing prices will fall also. I hear Detroit is pretty affordable. Article is on the Bay Area which has always been expensive.
    And what creates housing demand, Oracle of Minitru?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

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    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  6. #5
    Build a $#@!ing wall!

    Keep those commie bastards there........

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    http://www.mercurynews.com/business/...ered-residents
    Priya Govindarajan, a San Francisco resident, is planning to leave the Bay Area at the end of June and head with her husband, Ajay Patel, to North Carolina.
    Deju vu all over again. The people who came to replace the mass exodus of the late 90's/early 2000s are now leaving because it's overcrowded and expensive. California is the bleeding edge, but it eventually flows throughout the country. They will turn those remaining red states into socialist hell-holes soon enough.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    And what creates housing demand, Oracle of Minitru?
    A place many people would like to live. Weather, lifestyle, jobs. The better a place is, the more people will want to live there. Then if you have high paying jobs (isn't that what many want), then they have more money to spend on housing which also drives up the price.

  9. #8
    Droughts, earthquakes, wild fires, mudslides, criminal aliens, psychotic state government, etc. has absolutely nothing to do with it.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    ... lifestyle ...

  12. #10
    California should charge $2,350 dollars to renounce state citizenship like the U.S. does.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Droughts, earthquakes, wild fires, mudslides, criminal aliens, psychotic state government, etc. has absolutely nothing to do with it.
    My Grandmother would call that the Wrath of God .

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Droughts, earthquakes, wild fires, mudslides, criminal aliens, psychotic state government, etc. has absolutely nothing to do with it.
    Earthquakes are actually rare and the other events can happen anywhere (actually quakes can happen anywhere too).

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Earthquakes are actually rare and the other events can happen anywhere (actually quakes can happen anywhere too).
    Check the stats. (Oh, I forgot to include tsunami threats.) Granola-land, what ain't fruits and nuts, is flakes.
    Last edited by Ronin Truth; 06-29-2016 at 07:29 AM.

  16. #14
    Meh... CA has been this way for 40 years at least. People have been escaping for at least 25 and those places to where they have escaped have been almost universally ruined, the "natives" of such places coming to hate Californians to the point of wanting an open hunting season declared on them.

    Most of the people who emigrate from California settle in and then demand their new host state becomes just like California. IOW, most of the people in California are $#@!s. Dumber'n a post $#@!s, at that.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I would prefer a third world country over the bay area. Same amount of communists , cheaper prices.
    Good point. I attended USC and lived in LA county. I attended UC Davis and lived in Yolo county. Lived in San Mateo, as well. CA was a whole hell of a lot nicer in those days (mid-70s) than now, and in some ways it was pretty bad even then... though not nearly as bad as it is now. At Davis I was allowed my rifles at the dorms, so long as I kept them at the security office, unloaded. Try that today and see how long you will have your loved ones visiting you at Folsom.

    California is a dump. Very pretty, mind you, but a dump in any event. Very sad because I liked living there in those days, but could never get comfortable because even then I saw where things were heading. I left in 1980 and never looked back.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  18. #16
    Google, "mark dice man on the street mondays", frightening. What's in their water?
    Last edited by kfarnan; 06-29-2016 at 08:23 PM.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Deju vu all over again. The people who came to replace the mass exodus of the late 90's/early 2000s are now leaving because it's overcrowded and expensive. California is the bleeding edge, but it eventually flows throughout the country. They will turn those remaining red states into socialist hell-holes soon enough.
    I hear Nevada isn't far behind.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Meh... CA has been this way for 40 years at least. People have been escaping for at least 25 and those places to where they have escaped have been almost universally ruined, the "natives" of such places coming to hate Californians to the point of wanting an open hunting season declared on them.

    Most of the people who emigrate from California settle in and then demand their new host state becomes just like California. IOW, most of the people in California are $#@!s. Dumber'n a post $#@!s, at that.
    Yep. You left in 80? Wow. It might as well be an entirely different nation since then

    It should be an eye opener for everyone in other states that laugh and say "doesn't matter what happens in California, screw them". The entire nation will be just like California at some point. Overcrowded, over-regulated, over taxed, crime ridden, socialist big Mommy state. We will probably add starving to the list by then. Paving over all of the best farmland is another trend that will spread.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    A place many people would like to live. Weather, lifestyle, jobs. The better a place is, the more people will want to live there. Then if you have high paying jobs (isn't that what many want), then they have more money to spend on housing which also drives up the price.
    That's right, more people. There's a couple billion in Asia that want to come to California, you have some spare space in your home? No worries, as the story illustrates, they won't all stay in California. Hello North Carolina!
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    That's right, more people. There's a couple billion in Asia that want to come to California, you have some spare space in your home? No worries, as the story illustrates, they won't all stay in California. Hello North Carolina!
    Shush you! We already have enough "half-backs" that are making life miserable.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Yep. You left in 80? Wow. It might as well be an entirely different nation since then

    It should be an eye opener for everyone in other states that laugh and say "doesn't matter what happens in California, screw them". The entire nation will be just like California at some point. Overcrowded, over-regulated, over taxed, crime ridden, socialist big Mommy state. We will probably add starving to the list by then. Paving over all of the best farmland is another trend that will spread.
    Also putting everyone in a sub 1000 sq ft living space(300 sq ft? Too much?) in order to fit in as many people as they can. Learn to share!

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Supply and demand.
    Sure, supply and demand, don't forget land that is off limits because of government and insane government property taxes.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


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  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Also putting everyone in a sub 1000 sq ft living space(300 sq ft? Too much?) in order to fit in as many people as they can. Learn to share!
    "Tiny House Nation". The conditioning is happening right now.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Also putting everyone in a sub 1000 sq ft living space(300 sq ft? Too much?) in order to fit in as many people as they can. Learn to share!
    Factoid: Everyone on earth would comfortably fit in an area the size of Texas.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Sure, supply and demand, don't forget land that is off limits because of government and insane government property taxes.
    California actually ranks #17 in property tax rates. https://wallethub.com/edu/states-wit...y-taxes/11585/ And with Prop 17 there are very low limits on how much they can be raised (until property is sold).

    But yeah, if people were not willing to pay those prices for houses, the houses would not sell for those prices.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 06-30-2016 at 02:06 PM.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Yep. You left in 80? Wow. It might as well be an entirely different nation since then
    I've been back since then, and yes it is a different planet.

    Paving over all of the best farmland is another trend that will spread.
    Just look at NJ. Damned near completed there.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    California actually ranks #17 in property tax rates. https://wallethub.com/edu/states-wit...y-taxes/11585/ And with Prop 17 there are very low limits on how much they can be raised (until property is sold).

    But yeah, if people were not willing to pay those prices for houses, the houses would not sell for those prices.

    Not talking about rates. But amount.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  32. #28
    Since the size and prices of homes vary, rates are a better comparison between different areas. If you want to consider total tax dollars collected by a state then states with the largest number of homes (like California) would naturally lead such a list. Again, that is not useful information for comparisons. But do you have a list by "amount"?
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 06-30-2016 at 07:22 PM.

  33. #29
    You are not getting the point. You can have a similar size home or even bigger and pay less amount in property taxes in other states. There are also less taxes , fees and regulations not related to property that one finds in other states. That is why many Californians are leaving to greener pastures.
    Last edited by Danke; 07-01-2016 at 12:14 AM.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Build a $#@!ing wall!

    Keep those commie bastards there........
    no $#@!. They are polluting nevada.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it."
    James Madison

    "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams



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