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Thread: Orlando: The New 9/11? By Ron Paul

  1. #1

    Orlando: The New 9/11? By Ron Paul


    Orlando: The New 9/11? By Ron Paul

    Ron Paul Institute

    June 21, 2016

    Last week America was rocked by the cold-blooded murder of 49 people at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, Florida. Unlike the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, the Orlando shooter appears to be a lone gunman who, while claiming allegiance to ISIS, was not actually working with a terrorist group. About the only thing Orlando has in common with 9/11 is the way power-hungry politicians and federal officials wasted no time using it to justify expanding government and restricting liberty.

    Immediately following the shooting, we began to hear renewed calls for increased government surveillance of Muslims, including spying on Muslim religious services. Although the Orlando shooter was born in the US, some are using the shooting to renew the debate over Muslim immigration. While the government certainly should prevent terrorists from entering the country, singling out individuals for government surveillance and other violations of their rights because of religious faith violates the First Amendment and establishes a dangerous precedent that will be used against other groups. In addition, scapegoating all Muslims because of the act of one deranged individual strengthens groups like ISIS by making it appear that the US government is at war with Islam.

    The Orlando shooting is being used to justify mass surveillance and warrantless wiretapping. For the past three years, the House of Representatives passed an amendment to the Defense Department appropriations bill limiting mass surveillance. But, last week, the same amendment was voted down. The only difference between this year’s debate and previous debates was that this year defenders of the surveillance state were able to claim that the Orlando shooting justifies shredding the Fourth Amendment.

    The fact that the Orlando shooter had twice been investigated by the FBI shows that increased surveillance and wiretapping would not have prevented the shooting. Mass surveillance also creates a “needle in a haystack” problem that can make it difficult, or impossible, for law enforcement to identify real threats.

    Unfortunately, evidence that giving up liberty does not increase security has never deterred those who spread fear to gain support for increased government power.

    The Orlando shooter successfully passed several background checks and was a licensed security guard. But, just like those who used Orlando to defend unconstitutional surveillance, authoritarian supporters of gun control are not allowing facts to stand in the way of using the Orlando shooting to advance their agenda.

    Second Amendment opponents are using Orlando to give the federal government new powers to violate individuals’ rights without due process. One pro-gun control senator actually said that “due process is what’s killing us.”


    Ironically, if not surprisingly, one of those calling for new gun control laws is Hillary Clinton. When she was sectary of state, Clinton supported interventions in the Middle East that resulted in ISIS obtaining firearms paid for by US taxpayers!

    Mass surveillance, gun control, and other restrictions on our liberty will not prevent future Orlandos. In fact, by preventing law-abiding Americans from defending themselves, gun control laws make us less safe from criminals. Similarly, mass surveillance and warrantless wiretapping erode our rights while making it more difficult for law enforcement to identify real threats.

    If Congress really cared about our security and liberty, it would repeal all federal gun laws, end all unconstitutional surveillance, and end the hyper-interventionist foreign policy that causes many around the world to resent the US.

    The Best of Ron Paul

    Dr. Ron Paul is a former member of Congress and Distinguished Counselor to the Mises Institute. He was the 1988 Libertarian Party candidate for president.



    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/06/...ando-new-9-11/

    Copyright © 2016 by RonPaul Institute. Permission to reprint in whole or in part is gladly granted, provided full credit and a live link are given.



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  3. #2
    Orlando is not comparable to 9/11.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Orlando is not comparable to 9/11.
    Neither was ever used by the government as an excuse to shove through previously unpopular policies while people are emotionally charged?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  5. #4
    There has been talk, but what significant changes in law have come from Orlando? 9/11 led to the Department of Homeland Security and the Patriot Act and the significant expansion of surveillance.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    There has been talk, but what significant changes in law have come from Orlando? 9/11 led to the Department of Homeland Security and the Patriot Act and the significant expansion of surveillance.
    So, a pair of incidents that led to loss of life and got blamed on Islamic terrorists and involved someone with ties to Afghanistan and did lead to legislative activity are completely different because they didn't both lead to the PATRIOT Act, even though one only happened a week ago and the PATRIOT Act didn't get signed into law until October 26, 2001?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Orlando is not comparable to 9/11.
    Says you. It's not comparable in terms of number of dead but it is very much comparable in terms of political effect.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    There has been talk, but what significant changes in law have come from Orlando? 9/11 led to the Department of Homeland Security and the Patriot Act and the significant expansion of surveillance.
    The war in Iraq wasn't launched until almost 2 years after the incident, I think we should be more patient before making judgement calls.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    There has been talk, but what significant changes in law have come from Orlando? 9/11 led to the Department of Homeland Security and the Patriot Act and the significant expansion of surveillance.
    After you've built want department of homeland insecurity, building another would be pretty redundant don't you think? And we're less than a month out from the shooting. It took over a month after 9/11 for the Patriot Act to pass. This time, a couple of weeks later, senate dems attempted to pass a bill that would have essentially gutted the 2nd amendment. The GOP version would have restricted 2nd amendment rights.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  11. #9
    There is momentary sadness but not national outrage. Orlando is viewed as a single attack by a lone gunman without any real international connection.

  12. #10
    Orlando? Cui Bono?

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    There is momentary sadness but not national outrage. Orlando is viewed as a single attack by a lone gunman without any real international connection.
    There is national outrage at the NRA by a pretty large group of people.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  14. #12
    It might all be MUCH worse and run far deeper. A real challenge for Libertarians (and Trump?) to sort out:

    WARNING, GRAPHIC:


  15. #13
    They were both gov. psy ops.

  16. #14
    Here's one 9-11 like outcome of Orlando---the etch-a-sketching of concerns about probable cause:

    Another Reason for the Feds’ False Flag in Orlando
    Becky Akers

    “With the terrorist-inspired Orlando shooting fresh in their minds, House lawmakers reversed course last week and voted to uphold the government’s ability to snoop through its data when it believes American citizens are involved in terrorism — suggesting the post-Snowden wariness of the NSA has dissipated. … Dozens of lawmakers who voted [that the Feds must obtain a warrant before searching information on Americans’ ‘incidentally’ collected while spying on foreigners] in previous years flipped their votes last week. The switchers came chiefly from the Republican side of the aisle.”
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    There is momentary sadness but not national outrage.
    The elite are never outraged. Did you see them get outraged with the bombing of a hospital? Wedding parties? Arming and funding of ISIS? Total annihilation of Yugoslavia? Torture? Renditions? ... No. its merely a pretext for them. Its just an opportunity for them to exploit the people, and in terms of exploitation they certainly are trying to make this NSA failure into another 911 exploitation opportunity to expand surveillance/police state power.

    "You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before." - Rahm Emanuel

    From the article:

    About the only thing Orlando has in common with 9/11 is the way power-hungry politicians and federal officials wasted no time using it to justify expanding government and restricting liberty.

    Immediately following the shooting, we began to hear renewed calls for increased government surveillance ... The Orlando shooting is being used to justify mass surveillance and warrantless wiretapping. For the past three years, the House of Representatives passed an amendment to the Defense Department appropriations bill limiting mass surveillance. But, last week, the same amendment was voted down. ...

    The fact that the Orlando shooter had twice been investigated by the FBI shows that increased surveillance and wiretapping would not have prevented the shooting. ... But, just like those who used Orlando to defend unconstitutional surveillance, authoritarian supporters of gun control are not allowing facts to stand in the way of using the Orlando shooting to advance their agenda.

    Second Amendment opponents are using Orlando to give the federal government new powers to violate individuals’ rights without due process. ... Ironically, if not surprisingly, one of those calling for new gun control laws is Hillary Clinton. When she was sectary of state, Clinton supported interventions in the Middle East that resulted in ISIS obtaining firearms paid for by US taxpayers!

    Mass surveillance, gun control, and other restrictions on our liberty will not prevent future Orlandos. ... mass surveillance and warrantless wiretapping erode our rights while making it more difficult for law enforcement to identify real threats.

    ... repeal all federal gun laws, end all unconstitutional surveillance, and end the hyper-interventionist foreign policy that causes many around the world to resent the US.
    Last edited by AZJoe; 06-22-2016 at 03:01 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    There has been talk, but what significant changes in law have come from Orlando? 9/11 led to the Department of Homeland Security and the Patriot Act and the significant expansion of surveillance.
    expansion of the patriot act is 1 vote shirt, and they are still trying. female draft registration is now more likely, and the Dems are not backing down on gun control as they did in the past. laws take time.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Orlando is not comparable to 9/11.
    Inside Job.

    and an excuse for more atrocity
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  21. #18
    Im not saying I subscribe to the CTs, but this is a strange disconnect:



    Spoilers: Victim was said he was shot in the hand and there are no bandages or visible signs of damage to his hand.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    There is momentary sadness but not national outrage. Orlando is viewed as a single attack by a lone gunman without any real international connection.
    You really haven't been paying attention have you? The left is trying to make Orlando all about guns and homophobia and even trying to try an Islamic gunman to conservative Christians as if somehow he was watching Jerry Farwell Jr. and said "I can't get with this Jesus as Lord think but yeah homosexuality is wrong! I need to go kill some people in the name of Jesus...I mean Allah...I mean...." Meanwhile the right is trying to make this all about immigration and Muslims. And only dishonest people looking at this ignore the international connection. (He pledged intelligence to ISIS and Lorretta Lynch at first censored that as if nobody would notice.)

    There is national outrage but the outrage is aimed in different directions for political purposes. Instead of seeing U.S. flags all over the place we are seeing rainbow flags.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    The elite are never outraged. Did you see them get outraged with the bombing of a hospital? Wedding parties? Arming and funding of ISIS? Total annihilation of Yugoslavia? Torture? Renditions? ... No. its merely a pretext for them. Its just an opportunity for them to exploit the people, and in terms of exploitation they certainly are trying to make this NSA failure into another 911 exploitation opportunity to expand surveillance/police state power.

    "You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before." - Rahm Emanuel

    From the article:

    About the only thing Orlando has in common with 9/11 is the way power-hungry politicians and federal officials wasted no time using it to justify expanding government and restricting liberty.

    Immediately following the shooting, we began to hear renewed calls for increased government surveillance ... The Orlando shooting is being used to justify mass surveillance and warrantless wiretapping. For the past three years, the House of Representatives passed an amendment to the Defense Department appropriations bill limiting mass surveillance. But, last week, the same amendment was voted down. ...

    The fact that the Orlando shooter had twice been investigated by the FBI shows that increased surveillance and wiretapping would not have prevented the shooting. ... But, just like those who used Orlando to defend unconstitutional surveillance, authoritarian supporters of gun control are not allowing facts to stand in the way of using the Orlando shooting to advance their agenda.

    Second Amendment opponents are using Orlando to give the federal government new powers to violate individuals’ rights without due process. ... Ironically, if not surprisingly, one of those calling for new gun control laws is Hillary Clinton. When she was sectary of state, Clinton supported interventions in the Middle East that resulted in ISIS obtaining firearms paid for by US taxpayers!

    Mass surveillance, gun control, and other restrictions on our liberty will not prevent future Orlandos. ... mass surveillance and warrantless wiretapping erode our rights while making it more difficult for law enforcement to identify real threats.

    ... repeal all federal gun laws, end all unconstitutional surveillance, and end the hyper-interventionist foreign policy that causes many around the world to resent the US.
    Yep. A shill's gotta shill and a Zippy's gotta Zip.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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