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Thread: We Need the Police Because...

  1. #1

    We Need the Police Because...

    Hat tip to Suzanimal for the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by The Daily Mail
    Did a delay in response give the gunman more time? Cops face questions over why it took three hours for SWAT teams to storm Orlando nightclub as police chief admits officers may have shot some of the VICTIMS

    ...Police Chief John Mina has also admitted that some of the victims may have been hit by officers' gun fire.

    However he insisted it is a part of the investigation into the horrific attack.

    He said: 'I will say that is all part of the investigation. But I will say when our SWAT officers, about eight or nine officers, opened fire, their backdrop was a concrete wall. And they were being fired upon, so that is all part of the investigation.'

    The decisions made by Orlando police made them targets for scrutiny among experts in police tactics.

    They said the lessons learned from other mass shootings show that officers must get inside swiftly even at great risk to stop the threat and save lives.
    'We live in a different world. And action beats inaction 100 per cent of the time,' said Chris Grollnek, an expert on active-shooter tactics and a retired police officer and SWAT team member.

    Authorities in Orlando say the situation changed from an active-shooter scenario to a hostage situation once gunman Mateen made it into one of the bathrooms where club-goers were hiding.

    He first had a shootout with the off-duty officer at the club's entrance.

    Then two other officers arrived and the firing continued.

    Experts say there's a big difference between responding to a lone gunman and a shooter who has hostages.

    In active-shooter situations, police are now trained to respond immediately, even if only one or two officers are available to confront the suspect.
    In a hostage crisis, law enforcement generally tries to negotiate.

    Once in the restroom, Mateen called 911 and made statements pledging allegiance to the Islamic State, Orlando Police Chief John Mina said Monday.
    That's when the shooting stopped and hostage negotiators began talking with him, the chief said.

    'We had a team of crisis negotiators that talked to the suspect, trying to get as much information as possible, what we could do to help resolve the situation... He wasn't asking a whole lot, and we were doing most of the asking,' Mina said.

    But Mateen soon began talking about explosives and bombs, leading Mina to decide about 5am to detonate an explosive on an exterior wall to prevent potentially greater loss of life.

    The explosives did not penetrate the wall completely, so an armored vehicle was used to punch a two-foot-by-three-foot hole in the wall about two feet from the ground.
    'We knew there would be an imminent loss of life,' Mina said.

    Hostages started running out, as did Mateen, who was killed in a shootout with SWAT team members.
    It turned out there were no explosives.
    ...
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4BaJ0Hz7h

    Well, now. The cops had Mateen outnumbered three to one before he got inside, yet these three trained, experienced officers could not stop him.

    They had Mateen on the telephone and seem to have known he was in a restroom, yet they did not send someone in to evacuate, they did not call the bartender and tell him to set off the fire alarm, they did not suggest that someone--anyone--inside yell, "FIRE!" Why not? Because yelling fire in a crowded public building is illegal, and it's entrapment for cops to advise someone to do an illegal thing?

    There were innocents on the patio. They had a fire ladder truck, they had helicopters, and the wall surrounding the patio could not have been soundproof. A plumber with two ladders on his truck could have evacuated that patio. One guy with a sawzall could have evacuated that patio. Anyone with a car could have shouted, 'stay away from this wall' and knocked a hole in it with his or her car, and evacuated the patio. Apparently the people on the patio had the door barricaded. If that barricade had been torn down, some of the people inside could have been evacuated. But the plumber, or the guy with the sawzall, or the person with a car, was not allowed into the area by the cops. And the cops did not do these things either, or ask the firemen to do it. Why? Because their superiors had declared it a hostage situation, and regulations do not allow any breach of the perimeter during a hostage negotiation--even if there's no possible way the shooter can know it's happening?

    If they had gained access to the patio door, they would have had a silent way in which was not the front door. Instead, they blew holes in the wall, or tried to, and then used a battering ram. Why? What is the purpose of using shock and awe tactics if you aren't competent to pull them off? What is the point of battering the hole you failed to create with your explosives, when the point of using explosives was to gain the element of surprise?

    And why won't they say how many of the victims were shot not by the perp, but by the police?

    If three cops are manning the door, but a guy carrying an unconcealed AR-freaking-15 cannot be denied entrance to the building, if the cops are just going to putz around for three hours and then do everything wrong, if the cops are so hamstrung by their own regulations and chain of command that they can't even pull hostages out of a patio, and in the end they are going to shoot innocents with as much abandon as the perpetrator himself, then why are we banning handguns in bars and talking about banning them everywhere else too?

    One competent civilian could have ended this thing in the first two minutes. Which would not only have saved dozens of lives, but would have saved the Orlando Police Department the embarrassment of making complete asses of themselves. If only there had not been a law against carrying firearms in a bar. And all because the police are professionals, and we have to let them handle it.

    Well. So much for that theory. Now. Can we do the sane thing yet?
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.



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  3. #2

  4. #3
    Good idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  5. #4
    The best defense against a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

    When good guys are no longer allowed to have guns, who do you think is gonna win? This story is going to have many many repeats and continue to repeat in various forms as long as idiots in government think that criminals obey gun laws. Those gun laws only serve to disarm the good guys, criminals do not pay any attention to laws to begin with.

    ---

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...rrorists-brain
    Last edited by DamianTV; 06-14-2016 at 05:35 PM.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  6. #5
    To keep us safe on the roads.
    [T]he enshrinement of constitutional rights necessarily takes certain policy choices off the table. (Heller, 554 U.S., at ___, 128 S.Ct., at 2822.)

    How long before "going liberal" replaces "going postal"?

  7. #6
    We Need the Police Because...
    For the children!

  8. #7
    Because

    No - No - No - No
    2016

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    What is that between the gun and "ISIS" ?

    looks like a canteen with a duck's head sticking out of it lol



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesiv1 View Post
    What is that between the gun and "ISIS" ?

    looks like a canteen with a duck's head sticking out of it lol
    A pressure cooker.

  12. #10
    This horrible incident will have its own chapter in the crisis management manual under cluster$#@!.

  13. #11
    Remember Rule #1 of establishing a tyrannical government: NEVER let a good crisis go to waste!
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Remember Rule #1 of establishing a tyrannical government: NEVER let a good crisis go to waste!
    ^^THIS IS PLAYBOOK^^
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This horrible incident will have its own chapter in the crisis management manual under cluster$#@!.
    I would hope it is investigated. Thoroughly and openly. an absolute accounting for every bullet fired.. By who , at who.
    How many injured in the blast?

    Cuz what we are being told is gutter slime.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    I would hope it is investigated. Thoroughly and openly. an absolute accounting for every bullet fired.. By who , at who.
    How many injured in the blast?

    Cuz what we are being told is gutter slime.
    Not likely. The will be investigating themselves.
    I do not consent.

  17. #15
    The fact that this fiasco is being used as an excuse to once again push for gun control is asinine. Not only does it demonstrate yet how vulnerable a disarmed populace is, by being yet another example of a psycho specifically choosing a 'gun-free zone' as the logical place to wreak his havoc, and by demonstrating in no uncertain terms just how foolish relying on 'trained professionals' for our security truly is, it brings a whole new element into the discussion.

    This guy was investigated by the FBI twice, yet still, through Wackenhut, had a license to carry. Which means even if we had full-on gun control before this happened, HE WOULD STILL HAVE BEEN ARMED!
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  18. #16
    Because it's just a coincidence that all the high body counts come in gun-free zones, right?

    http://stories.avvo.com/crime/8-horr...un-owners.html

    So let's make the whole country one big gun-free zone--except for those nice, sane people cleared by the FBI and employed by Wackenhut, of course...
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.



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  20. #17
    "Not one of Donald Trump's reckless ideas would have saved a single life in Orlando," Clinton said
    Are you admitting that your own calls for gun bans wouldn't have saved a single life in Orlando, old woman?
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  21. #18
    Police serve pretty much one purpose: allow the rich to continue to stealing from the poor.

    Monopoly of Violence.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    ^^THIS IS PLAYBOOK^^
    Aaaaactually. Its a rulebook.

    Better call Saul.

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  23. #20
    They said the lessons learned from other mass shootings show that officers must get inside swiftly — even at great risk — to stop the threat and save lives.
    At great risk - to who? If its the Officers, thats just unacceptable
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  24. #21
    The police department spokesman announced he cannot say if the police killed any of the victims. But police pathologists have had the technology to determine just that for about eighty years now.

    What can we infer from this?

  25. #22
    Police Chief John Mina has also admitted that some of the victims may have been hit by officers' gun fire.
    Shocked, shocked I am.

  26. #23
    Police Chief John Mina has also admitted that some of the victims may have been hit by officers' gun fire.
    Shocked, shocked I am.

  27. #24
    Police Chief John Mina has also admitted that some of the victims may have been hit by officers' gun fire.
    Shocked, shocked I am.



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  29. #25
    Authorities in Orlando say the situation changed from an active-shooter scenario to a hostage situation once gunman Mateen made it into one of the bathrooms where club-goers were hiding.

    He first had a shootout with the off-duty officer at the club's entrance.

    Then two other officers arrived and the firing continued.


    Experts say there's a big difference between responding to a lone gunman and a shooter who has hostages.

    In active-shooter situations, police are now trained to respond immediately, even if only one or two officers are available to confront the suspect.
    In a hostage crisis, law enforcement generally tries to negotiate.

    Once in the restroom, Mateen called 911 and made statements pledging allegiance to the Islamic State, Orlando Police Chief John Mina said Monday.
    That's when the shooting stopped and hostage negotiators began talking with him, the chief said.
    We aren't going to get the exact truth from stories on the internet. And this story doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

    When did the shooter have time to shoot 100 people if he was also in a firefight with 3 cops the whole time (until the bathroom)?

    Apparently the cops were outside having a firefight with the outside of the building while the shooter was inside killing everyone?
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate. - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  30. #26
    Authorities in Orlando say the situation changed from an active-shooter scenario to a hostage situation once gunman Mateen made it into one of the bathrooms where club-goers were hiding.

    He first had a shootout with the off-duty officer at the club's entrance.

    Then two other officers arrived and the firing continued.


    Experts say there's a big difference between responding to a lone gunman and a shooter who has hostages.

    In active-shooter situations, police are now trained to respond immediately, even if only one or two officers are available to confront the suspect.
    In a hostage crisis, law enforcement generally tries to negotiate.

    Once in the restroom, Mateen called 911 and made statements pledging allegiance to the Islamic State, Orlando Police Chief John Mina said Monday.
    That's when the shooting stopped and hostage negotiators began talking with him, the chief said.
    We aren't going to get the exact truth from stories on the internet. And this story doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

    When did the shooter have time to shoot 100 people if he was also in a firefight with 3 cops the whole time (until the bathroom)?

    Apparently the cops were outside having a firefight with the outside of the building while the shooter was inside killing everyone?
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate. - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  31. #27
    Love, Leftist Style
    Becky Akers

    I am no fan of Geraldo Rivera—in fact, since I avoid the sewer that is popular culture, I have only a vague and unpleasant notion of his notoriety. But he’s apparently in hot water with the mindless masses for this innocuous and even sensible analysis of the shootings in Orlando (presuming they happened as Our Rulers claim, despite mounting evidence that the whole thing may be yet another false flag):

    When you’re in that situation and you have no weapons you have two choices. If you can’t hide and you can’t run there’s only two choices – you stay and die or you fight…For God’s sake, fight back. Fight back. There’s a hundred [sic] people that he murdered with one weapon that he reloaded.

    Ah, but then what use would the State’s “first responders” be? And think of the independence and autonomy if Americans reverted to the formerly universal reflex of defending themselves! Why, they’d invalidate much of the premise for Leviathan. And we can’t have that.

    With their god threatened even this remotely, Progressives are unleashing all the hatred-sorry, love in their benighted little souls:

    Actor, painter and musician John Lurie posted a series of tweets about Rivera’s comments. ‘Someone slap Geraldo Rivera in the face,’ wrote Lurie.

    Aaaaccckkkk! I need a “safe space,” quick, before this incitement to violence triggers my anxieties!

    He then added: ‘I believe the only solution to save this world is love towards one another, except toward Geraldo Rivera. No love for Geraldo. If all of the hate groups focused their hate on one man – the world would be a safer, better place – let that man be Geraldo Rivera.’

    You’d think poor Rivera had bombed innocent folks in Afghanistan or lied about a private server for official emails instead of urging men to act like men. Oh, wait… Hmmm…

    Then there’s this from “Media Matters for America, a left-leaning media watchdog. ‘The appalling notion that the victims of senseless violence bear the responsibility of preventing crimes committed against them has long lurked in the US conservative media,’ said Tim Johnson the organization’s guns and public safety program director.”

    Yeah, far better to wait for “first responders,” even if it costs 50 people their lives.
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog...leftist-style/
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  32. #28
    I don't get it...we were told what great heroes the people that fought back on Flight 93 on 9/11 were.

    Has that much changed in 15 years?

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by unknown View Post
    Gary Johnson: "Gun Restrictions Make Us Less Safe".

    "I understand how so many people can believe that if you restrict this kind of weapon you can prevent this kind of incident," said Libertarian Party candidate Gary Johnson in reaction to the murders in Orlando and the political calls to further restrict access to certain guns that arose after the shooting.

    "But there's just no evidence whatsoever to suggest that it makes us any safer, and in fact restricting guns makes things less safe, that's the camp that I'm in," he said in a phone interview this morning.
    At-least one of the candidates got it right.
    ..
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  34. #30
    Why we need police?

    No - No - No - No
    2016

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