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Thread: Donald Trump: American-born Orlando shooter “born an Afghan”

  1. #1

    Donald Trump: American-born Orlando shooter “born an Afghan”

    ...In a speech about terrorism, in the wake of the tragic mass shooting — which left nearly 50 dead and dozens injured in the hospital — Trump overlooked Mateen’s American citizenship in an attempt to justify his proposals to tighten the borders against Muslims and immigrants from the Middle East.

    "The killer was born an Afghan, of Afghan parents who immigrated to the United States," Trump said of Mateen’s ethnic background.
    http://www.vox.com/2016/6/13/1192413...shooter-afghan

    Random thought on this, interesting how he worked from that narrative. This parallels the argument he made against Curiel, calling him Mexican repeatedly. Birthplace is irrelevant it appears. Trump's working with the ethnic argument again. He doesn't see place of birth, and nation of residence, he sees whom the person was raised by and thus defines them by that, ignoring all the other influences that are involved.
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle



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  3. #2
    What he obviously considers irrelevant is the Constitution of the United States.

    I guess he figures if a woman can knit an afghan in the U.S, she can birth one too.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    What he obviously considers irrelevant is the Constitution of the United States.

    I guess he figures if a woman can knit an afghan in the U.S, she can birth one too.
    Big surprise: Trump doesn't know the Constitution.

  5. #4
    I wonder if he would be eligible to be president.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    I wonder if he would be eligible to be president.
    You have to live to the age of 35.

    If only the Constitution required a mental age of 35 be achieved, Trump would be disqualified.

  7. #6
    Yes, Mental age and IQ are not in the US Constitution.

    Thankfully Trump can still be elected if the majority of the votes go his way.
    (Of course the electoral college and congress can still pull some s#!t.)

  8. #7
    Say what? (Trump's mother and wives were foreigners) I guess that makes him a foreigner too. Can a foreigner be president?

    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 06-13-2016 at 09:34 PM.

  9. #8
    Is there any end to this man's ignorance?

    Or maybe he goes to bed every night laughing his ass off over his "supporters"
    Brawndo's got what plants crave. Its got electrolytes.



    H. L. Mencken said it best:


    “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”


    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."



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  11. #9

  12. #10
    His dad ran an Afghan household all his life, tv show & potential prez run against Karzai; & part of the issue is gay shaming of Muslim sons.
    BOWLING GREEN, Kentucky – Washington liberals are trying to push through the so-called DREAM Act, which creates an official path to Democrat voter registration for 2 million college-age illegal immigrants.
    Rand Paul 2010

    Booker T. Washington:
    Cast it down among the eight millions of Negroes whose habits you know, whose
    fidelity and love you have tested in days when to have proved treacherous meant the ruin of your firesides.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by RJ Liberty View Post
    Big surprise: Trump doesn't know the Constitution.
    Uh, you realize Ron Paul doesn't believe the US Constitution bestows citizenship on anchor babies either and has worked to have the entire concept of "birthright citizenship" (which Rand Paul also opposes!) eliminated?

  14. #12
    Trump's thought process to this is even more peculiar when you consider one of his own parents was not born in America and he repeatedly married immigrants. I wonder what inferiority complex may lie beneath the rhetoric.What life circumstances brought him to behave as he does towards others?
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle

  15. #13
    I watched the video and I'm pretty sure he just misread the teleprompter.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudeman View Post
    I watched the video and I'm pretty sure he just misread the teleprompter.
    The copy given to the press beforehand didn't have the statement. He went off script on that part. No doubt he had a disagreement with his speechwriter.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulMall View Post
    Uh, you realize Ron Paul doesn't believe the US Constitution bestows citizenship on anchor babies either and has worked to have the entire concept of "birthright citizenship" (which Rand Paul also opposes!) eliminated?
    But Ron Paul isn't calling native-born citizens Afghans, is he? Was the killer an anchor baby?

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudeman View Post
    I watched the video and I'm pretty sure he just misread the teleprompter.
    Link for video, the statement is less than a minute in:

    https://vimeo.com/170521432

    Trump doesn't falter or hesitate. His use of phrasing is very specific. And it is a statement that will be defended by disparaging the otherness rather than acknowledging it is factually incorrect. It was a slight of hand necessary to the dialogue he proceeds with to reframe the discussion to something he perceives hands him the victory.

    Curious thing, running with this thought stream came across this article, by chance, just a moment ago:

    Nationalism vs. Patriotism: Narcissism vs. Self-love
    Posted on November 9, 2014 by samvaknin
    By Sam Vaknin
    Author of “Malignant Self-love: Narcissism Revisited”

    Patriotism is akin to the healthy form of self-love: it consists mainly of pride in one’s self-identity and values based on one’s culture and shared history. Patriotism is not exclusionary, but inclusive. The patriot, in constantly seeking to improve his lot and that of his compatriots, is open to advice and suggestions, and welcomes criticism.

    Patriotism is concerned with the concrete, the here and now. It is grounded in reality.

    Nationalism is very much like compensatory, malignant narcissism. It rears its head when people stop being patriots, when they are rendered by circumstances (usually of their own making) ashamed of who they are: Nazi Germany comes to mind. Nationalism is exclusionary and oppositional: the nationalist’s sense of self-identity and self-worth depends on the aggressive belittlement and devaluation of other collectives (other nations, minorities, ethnic groups, or religions.) The nationalist regards every hint of criticism of “his” nation as an act of violence. Though he volubly professes to an ardent love of his “Volk”, the nationalist is mostly concerned with the abstract and the elitist: megalomaniacal, grandiose fantasies of a utopian future occupy his time, not the concrete, or the here and now.

    ... Freud coined the phrase “narcissism of small differences” in a paper titled “The Taboo of Virginity” that he published in 1917. Referring to earlier work by British anthropologist Ernest Crawley, he said that we reserve our most virulent emotions – aggression, hatred, envy – towards those who resemble us the most. We feel threatened not by the Other with whom we have little in common – but by the “nearly-we”, who mirror and reflect us.

    The “nearly-he” imperils the narcissist’s selfhood and challenges his uniqueness, perfection, and superiority – the fundaments of the narcissist’s sense of self-worth. It provokes in him primitive narcissistic defences and leads him to adopt desperate measures to protect, preserve, and restore his balance. I call it the Gulliver Array of Defence Mechanisms.

    The very existence of the “nearly-he” constitutes a narcissistic injury. The narcissist feels humiliated, shamed, and embarrassed not to be special after all – and he reacts with envy and aggression towards this source of frustration.

    In doing so, he resorts to splitting, projection, and Projective Identification. He attributes to other people personal traits that he dislikes in himself and he forces them to behave in conformity with his expectations. In other words, the narcissist sees in others those parts of himself that he cannot countenance and deny. He forces people around him to become him and to reflect his shameful behaviours, hidden fears, and forbidden wishes...
    https://samvaknin.wordpress.com/tag/racism/

    Which this could be a whole new angle of the argument regarding racism wrt Trump. He isn't arguing his positions based upon race but ethnicity. The nearly-he is the country of origin. Facts are but a pesky thing that interrupts the magnificence in Trump's mind of his logic. There is this fracturing between the persistent divisiveness and the argument he isn't being racist. Perhaps, in a warped way he isn't racist, but he is, because he sees the nearly-he in other's humanity yet projects outwardly confrontations on the grounds of ethnicity.
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle



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  20. #17
    ...For more than 200 years, "American" has been about something more than blood and surname. By accusing second-generation Americans of being un-American, Donald Trump, the son of an immigrant mother, might be one of them himself.

    Trump consistently treats some Americans as not fully American

    An instructive counterpoint: Here is what Donald Trump said during an interview about a mass shooting at Umpqua Community College in October, conducted by Christopher Harper-Mercer, a US citizen whose parents weren’t immigrants (emphasis added):

    People are going to slip through the cracks [...] oftentimes this happens and the neighborhood’s just, you know, we sort of saw that about him, it really looked like he could be a problem but it’s often hard to put someone in an institution for the rest of their lives based on the fact that he looks like he could be a problem.

    The contrast couldn’t be clearer. Some people get the benefit of the doubt: The suspicions of their neighbors aren't enough to punish them for something they haven’t yet done (and may never do). Other people don’t. The fact of their heritage not only puts them under suspicion of radicalization but makes them such a threat to the American homeland that it's worth banning their parents from the US just to prevent them from being born here.

    The difference between the two groups isn't whether they’re American. Both Omar Mateen and Christopher Harper-Mercer were American in the eyes of the law. But in the eyes of Donald Trump — who said Monday that he wanted to be the president of "all Americans," even as he harped on the dangers of second-generation Americans — Mateen simply doesn’t count as American because of who his parents were.

    "He was born an Afghan of Afghan parents who immigrated to the United States," Trump said during his Monday speech (in another apparent ad lib).

    We’ve seen this distinction before. Gonzalo Curiel is a federal judge. Before being appointed to the federal bench, he was a distinguished prosecutor. Curiel is a second-generation American. He was born in Indiana; his parents were born in Mexico.

    Shortly before the Orlando attack, Donald Trump spent more than a week saying that Curiel couldn't be objective toward Trump in a class-action suit because Trump wanted to build a wall with Mexico — implying, in a not-even-veiled way, that Curiel would put Mexico's interests in front of America’s.

    Trump and his supporters pointed to Curiel’s membership in a Latino lawyers association, calling it a "radical" Latino organization. So Curiel, too, in his way, was accused of being a member of the radicalized second generation.

    ...Because the debate over immigration to the US (prior to the presidential candidacy of Donald Trump) focused on unauthorized immigrants, it's often been characterized as a debate over the "rule of law." (As a matter of fact, one of the most common lines heard among opponents of legalizing unauthorized immigrants is, "My ancestors came here the right way" — an acknowledgment that someone can become American from immigrant stock.)

    Trump has blown the cover off that, by impugning the Americanness of legal immigrants and American citizens just as much as he’s attacked unauthorized ones. He's shown that many Americans are anxious, more than anything, about the threat immigrants pose to their values.

    These Americans suspect there are some cultures that cannot simply be subsumed into American culture — that are completely inimical to Americanness. Immigrants from these cultures can't be expected (or shouldn't be trusted) to choose American values over the values of their home countries. If allowed to take root in American communities, they will simply promote pockets of separatism — cultural "no-go zones." And if their home countries come into conflict with America, they — and their children, and their children’s children — will choose heritage over patriotism.

    The fear of a fifth column is nothing new, either: For as long as Americans have held up the ideal of the integrated or assimilated immigrant, they’ve been afraid that some immigrants are simply occupying America without joining it. These fears gave us anti-Catholic discrimination and riots in the 19th century. In the early 20th century, it gave us surveillance of German-American communities — and forced 120,000 Japanese Americans, many of them US citizens, into concentration camps.

    ...The question of how to prevent second-generation Americans (or Belgians, or Brits) from becoming radicalized is a tough one. It’s something that many people — specifically, Muslim community leaders — in both the US and Europe are working on. There aren’t good answers yet. Nor are there easy answers for how people become radicalized.

    The evidence is suggestive, however, that one of the factors that makes young people most vulnerable to recruitment by radicals is social isolation. In particular, when young people feel disconnected from both the culture of their heritage and the culture of their countries, they are more likely to find a home in a radical ideology instead. One 2013 study of Dutch Muslims found that "a feeling of being disconnected from society" was an "important determinant of a radical belief system."

    It’s nowhere near as simple as "if Americans don’t embrace second-generation immigrants, they’ll get radicalized." These are just factors in a larger matrix. But discriminating against second-generation young people on the basis of their heritage is certainly correlated with social isolation and radicalization.

    ...Identity doesn’t have to be a zero-sum game. Just look at Judge Curiel — who’s spent the bulk of his career working for the American government while remaining active in a group that celebrates his Latino heritage. Most studies of immigrant integration suggest that the most successful children of immigrants are those who manage to retain connections to both the heritage of their parents and the culture of the country in which they live.

    But to Donald Trump (and many of his supporters), Curiel’s "pride" in his Mexican heritage was a threat of greater loyalty. The only way an immigrant — or the child of an immigrant, etc. — can prove she is truly American is to reject the identity of her ancestry.

    Short of that, second-generation Americans are all equally deserving of scrutiny — they’re all, to some extent, impostor Americans, whose enemy loyalties will eventually come to the fore.

    When you regard Gonzalo Curiel and Omar Mateen with exactly the same degree of suspicion, you give second-generation immigrants very few reasons to aspire to be Gonzalo Curiel. You give second-generation immigrants just one more reason to suspect that maybe the Omar Mateens of the world have it right after all.
    http://www.vox.com/2016/6/14/1192052...igrants-muslim
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudeman View Post
    I watched the video and I'm pretty sure he just misread the teleprompter.
    Oh. Well. Very reassuring.

    He'll lie to millions because he can't read a teleprompter, but he'd never launch a strike and kill people because he misread a security brief. Because--well, you just have to have faith, I guess...
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by moostraks View Post
    http://www.vox.com/2016/6/13/1192413...shooter-afghan

    Random thought on this, interesting how he worked from that narrative. This parallels the argument he made against Curiel, calling him Mexican repeatedly. Birthplace is irrelevant it appears. Trump's working with the ethnic argument again. He doesn't see place of birth, and nation of residence, he sees whom the person was raised by and thus defines them by that, ignoring all the other influences that are involved.
    Somehow nobody batted an eyelash when the current commander in chief ordered a drone strike on a US citizen in Yemen - Anwar al-Awlaki.

  23. #20
    Dat Trump, he are so igornant. Dat why we loves him, us dumb folkses.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Bossobass View Post
    Dat Trump, he are so igornant. Dat why we loves him, us dumb folkses.
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. Mencken
    “As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
    But they're getting fooled. Trump is not quite a downright moron--he just plays one on TV.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Somehow nobody batted an eyelash when the current commander in chief ordered a drone strike on a US citizen in Yemen - Anwar al-Awlaki.
    Not true.

    Al-Aulaqi v. Panetta is a case challenging the drone killings by the United States of three U.S. citizens in Yemen. In 2010, after reports that Anwar Al-Aulaqi had been placed on CIA and military “kill lists,” the Center for Constitutional Rights and the American Civil Liberties Union filed suit on behalf of his father, Nasser Al-Aulaqi, challenging the government’s authorization for his son’s killing. That case was dismissed by a district court. On September 30, 2011, U.S. drone strikes killed Anwar Al-Aulaqi, along with Samir Khan and two other men. Two weeks later, the U.S. launched another drone strike at an open-air restaurant in Yemen, killing Anwar Al-Aulaqi’s 16-year-old son, Abdulrahman, and six others, including Abdulrahman’s teenage cousin. CCR and the ACLU filed a second case charging that these killings, undertaken without due process, in circumstances where lethal force was not a last resort to address a specific and imminent threat and where the government failed to take required measures to protect bystanders, violated the deceased Americans’ fundamental rights under the Constitution. This case is part of CCR’s work challenging unlawful drone killings by the United States and other rights violations being committed in the name of national security.

    Defendants were former Defense Secretary and CIA Director Leon C. Panetta, former Commander of the U.S. Special Operations Command William H. McRaven, former Commander of the Joint Special Operations Command Joseph Votel, and former CIA Director David Petraeus.
    http://ccrjustice.org/home/what-we-d...laqi-v-panetta

    Search engines will also show that it received attention by RPFs as well as others.
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Bossobass View Post
    Dat Trump, he are so igornant. Dat why we loves him, us dumb folkses.
    This was also true about the previous POTUS, the current one on the other hand is so sophisticated:



    He is also a constitutional lawyer and a Nobel Peace Prize recipient.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Bossobass View Post
    Dat Trump, he are so igornant. Dat why we loves him, us dumb folkses.
    Is that what you feel every time someone disagrees with you on Trump?
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This was also true about the previous POTUS, the current one on the other hand is so sophisticated:



    He is also a constitutional lawyer and a Nobel Peace Prize recipient.
    Who is pushing that narrative here?
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by moostraks View Post
    Who is pushing that narrative here?
    No one here. But that has been the Official Narrative for a dozen years now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    No one here. But that has been the Official Narrative for a dozen years now.
    So they are going to take their cross and beat us with it? I don't accept guilt for the official narrative when it's never represented my position.
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle

  32. #28
    Trump is being shoved down our throats by Dubya voters. I don't see why we wouldn't say so.

    I think Dubya voters have done us enough damage, and we should point that fact out. In fact, I think it's long past time for us to say so.

    Obama voters were hoping for change from Bush. They didn't get it. Now Trump voters are hoping for change from Obama. What do we have to do to make them see they won't be getting it, either?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 06-14-2016 at 10:26 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by moostraks View Post
    So they are going to take their cross and beat us with it?
    They will sure try.

    I don't accept guilt for the official narrative when it's never represented my position.
    And there's the rub.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by moostraks View Post
    http://www.vox.com/2016/6/13/1192413...shooter-afghan

    Random thought on this, interesting how he worked from that narrative. This parallels the argument he made against Curiel, calling him Mexican repeatedly. Birthplace is irrelevant it appears. Trump's working with the ethnic argument again. He doesn't see place of birth, and nation of residence, he sees whom the person was raised by and thus defines them by that, ignoring all the other influences that are involved.
    Sounds like Trump may be making the case for jus sanguinis over jus soli.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

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