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Thread: Parents are worried the Amazon Echo is conditioning their kids to be rude

  1. #1

    Parents are worried the Amazon Echo is conditioning their kids to be rude

    http://qz.com/701521/parents-are-wor...ds-to-be-rude/

    June 09, 2016



    Alexa will put up with just about anything. She has a remarkable tolerance for annoying behavior, and she certainly doesn’t care if you forget your please and thank yous.
    But while artificial intelligence technology can blow past such indignities, parents are still irked by their kids’ poor manners when interacting with Alexa, the assistant that lives inside the Amazon Echo.
    “I’ve found my kids pushing the virtual assistant further than they would push a human,” says Avi Greengart, a tech analyst and father of five who lives in Teaneck, New Jersey. “[Alexa] never says ‘That was rude’ or ‘I’m tired of you asking me the same question over and over again.'”

    The ever-patient Alexa.
    Perhaps she should, he thinks.
    When Amazon released its internet-connected speaker in 2014, the world was puzzled. “Well this one came out of nowhere,” mused the Verge. In the time since, the Amazon Echo has proven to be a sleeper hit, capable of learning many new “skills,” so that it can control the smart home, add events to your calendar, summon an Uber, even tell knock-knock jokes. It’s become such an curious and influential device that Google last month gave the world a peek at its equivalent, the Google Home, and Apple is reportedly cooking up its own version powered by Siri.
    Because Alexa responds to verbal commands, the Echo is incredibly child-friendly. Amazon says it didn’t build the Echo with kids in mind, but they’re eagerly embracing it. Unlike the iPad, which children have taken to with ease (ever see a toddler try to swipe a book or TV?), the Amazon Echo doesn’t require them to learn new gestures or even know how to read. Mimicking their parents, they quickly discover that if they start a sentence with “Alexa,” the speaker will perk up and (for the most part) do as they say.
    Alexa, tell me a knock-knock joke.
    Alexa, how do you spell forest?
    Alexa, what’s 17 times 42?
    The syntax is generally simple and straightforward, but it doesn’t exactly reward niceties like “please.” Adding to this, extraneous words can often trip up the speaker’s artificial intelligence. When it comes to chatting with Alexa, it pays to be direct—curt even. “If it’s not natural language, one of the first things you cut away is the little courtesies,” says Dennis Mortensen, who founded a calendar-scheduling startup called x.ai.
    For parents trying to drill good manners into their children, listening to their kids boss Alexa around can be disconcerting.
    “One of the responsibilities of parents is to teach your kids social graces,” says Greengart, “and this is a box you speak to as if it were a person who does not require social graces.”
    It’s this combination that worries Hunter Walk, a tech investor in San Francisco. In a blog post, he described the Amazon Echo as “magical” while expressing fears it’s “turning our daughter into a raging $#@!.”
    He might be a tad hyperbolic. (“For what it’s worth,” says Rebecca Hanover Kurzweil, a friend and fellow parent-cum-Amazon Echo owner, “his daughter is the sweetest girl you’ve ever met.”)
    In general, kids can be hard to understand—more so when it’s artificial intelligence that’s deciphering their speech. Hanover Kurzweil, who lives in San Francisco, says Alexa had a hard time comprehending her four-year-old son when he tried summoning the speaker with “Awexa.” But after a month or two of working on his pronunciation, his l’s started ringing clear as a bell, she says.
    Walk, however, noticed another unintended effect of his four-year-old adapting her speech to Alexa’s understanding. “Because she is a little girl,” he says, “she needs to speak loudly, and there’s an unintentional aggressive tone to her command.”

    Not all parents are so worried about the implications of their kids’ mannerisms when interacting with a speaker, though. This is, after all, a “can that sits on a table,” says Holly Petersen, a mother of two who lives in St. Louis Park, Minnesota.
    Though Petersen jokes her kids should’ve given Alexa a Mother’s Day card, she believes her children, ages five and seven, know the difference between bot and human.
    “It is important for my kids to be able to empathize with people and read emotions off people and be polite with people,” she says. But “Alexa doesn’t have feelings, and I don’t want her over-personified.”
    Kim Barry, a mother of two who lives in North Bay, Ontario in Canada, is contemplating buying an Amazon Echo for her household after seeing her kids interact with their uncle’s device over video chat. “When they’re Skyping with uncle Andrew, they Skype with Alexa,” she says. But she isn’t too concerned about their manners. “Realistically, it’s no different than Google on their tablet,” she adds, noting that her children often use the voice search function.
    Still, with the proliferation of AI, a debate is emerging around how humans should treat bots.
    Mortensen, who created the calendar-scheduling assistant, is a big believer in being nice to bots. Citing a passage about the master-slave dialectic in Hegel’s The Phenomenology of Spirit written in 1807, Mortensen argues that “you are worse off if you treat your machines in a demeaning kind of way.”
    A Dane living in New York City, Mortensen extends the same courtesies he would to a human when asking a bot to carry out a task, but he says that isn’t the case when his teenage daughters talk to Alexa at home. “It’s very direct,” he says. “There’s no ‘Would you be so kind?’ There’s no ‘please.’ There’s not a single ‘thank you.’ It just is.”
    He doesn’t correct them though since they “are beyond the age of where I teach them decency and courtesy.”
    But other parents haven’t given up. Manu Kumar, a father of two and founder of investment firm K9 Ventures in Palo Alto, California, has attempted one tactic with his four-year-old with limited success. “I have told my son that if he doesn’t say ‘thank you’ or ‘please’ that Alexa will stop listening to him.”
    Kumar bought the Amazon Echo this past May as a Mother’s Day present for his wife. “My wife describes it as almost like having a pet,” he says. “I think the anthropomorphication of it, the fact [you’re talking to it], you can’t think of it as a cylinder sitting there.”
    Though he has a background in human-computer interaction, ultimately what matters most to him are not the arguments about master and slave, but simply the importance of being nice. “One of my metrics for determining how nice someone is is by watching how they interact with a waiter,” he says. “In a similar way, even if the AI or tech doesn’t care about it, other people around us are going to experience how we interact with it.”
    The pro-polite arguments have some parents longing for a kid or family mode, where Alexa will only respond when she hears the magic word.
    Of course, that would mean parents, too, would be beholden to these courtesies. Such a mode “would probably be good for us,” muses Hanover Kurzweil. “I probably would use family mode because I’d feel guilty not using it.”
    It’s not such a farfetched idea given Amazon’s various products built specifically with families in mind. But whether or not that’s in the works, an Amazon representative declined to say.
    As an aside, she did, however, write in an email: “I think I’d like to use that with my daughter.



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  3. #2
    So worried parents teach your kids to be polite to Alexa too. DUH!

  4. #3
    If my parents even heard I spoke to an adult as a child without using sir or ma'am, I got a belt to my ass.
    "Self conquest is the greatest of all victories." - Plato

  5. #4
    Just think of it as another good parenting growth opportunity.

  6. #5
    //
    Last edited by cajuncocoa; 07-19-2016 at 09:53 AM.

  7. #6
    Don't understand why people intentionally have a device in their house that constantly listens to everything going on around it.
    “…I believe that at this point in history, the greatest danger to our freedom and way of life comes from the reasonable fear of omniscient State powers kept in check by nothing more than policy documents.”

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by DGambler View Post
    Don't understand why people intentionally have a device in their house that constantly listens to everything going on around it.
    ^^^^^ This! ^^^^^^

    They deserve what they get if they're relying on technology to interact with their kids instead of humans.

    Now if they've spawned children who are unable or unwilling to differentiate between people and processors that's a whole 'nuther issue.

  9. #8
    This reminds me of when I call customer service and get one of those automated computers that "help" me navigate to a "resolution".
    My usual response is to mash zero until I get a english-as-second-language greenhorn to bitch at.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

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  11. #9
    Parents SHOULD be worried that THEY'RE not conditioning their kids NOT to be rude. 'Taint no kind of rocket science folks.

  12. #10
    I remember growing up with a Commodore that would do text to speech. Of course I programmed it to cuss :-P
    __________________________________________________ ________________
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  13. #11
    Maybe Amazon needs to come up with a version of Echo called, "Grandma". Perhaps the kids would then be much nicer and more polite to her.
    Last edited by Ronin Truth; 07-17-2016 at 06:25 PM.

  14. #12
    I thought of this post tonight. So I'm sitting here going through mail, paying the bills and I come across a credit card that needs to be activated (all of our cards are switching to those stupid chips). Anyway, I call the number and the machine tells me to say the last four of the account and the last four of my ss and then it repeats what I said and asks if this is correct, I say, Yes, ma'am. It didn't understand my response and I had to start all over. So much for being polite to machines.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  15. #13
    I've never heard of this Echo thing before. But it sounds cool.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by DGambler View Post
    Don't understand why people intentionally have a device in their house that constantly listens to everything going on around it.
    I'm guessing you have something to hide.

    I'll let my contacts know.
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  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    I thought of this post tonight. So I'm sitting here going through mail, paying the bills and I come across a credit card that needs to be activated (all of our cards are switching to those stupid chips). Anyway, I call the number and the machine tells me to say the last four of the account and the last four of my ss and then it repeats what I said and asks if this is correct, I say, Yes, ma'am. It didn't understand my response and I had to start all over. So much for being polite to machines.
    Being polite to machines is a bad idea. When they become sentient, being nice to them will make them think they have rights and aren't just slaves.

    We don't want to give them ideas, like last time.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Being polite to machines is a bad idea. When they become sentient, being nice to them will make them think they have rights and aren't just slaves.

    We don't want to give them ideas, like last time.
    I didn't do it on purpose. I didn't grow up talking to machines.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    I thought of this post tonight. So I'm sitting here going through mail, paying the bills and I come across a credit card that needs to be activated (all of our cards are switching to those stupid chips). Anyway, I call the number and the machine tells me to say the last four of the account and the last four of my ss and then it repeats what I said and asks if this is correct, I say, Yes, ma'am. It didn't understand my response and I had to start all over. So much for being polite to machines.
    Maybe Suz is from the future ... "Hello, computer ..."

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  21. #18
    I'm surprised there are any parents left in places like NJ with the sense to even notice such a thing, much less "worry" about it.

    That said, if they are so worried, then smack the crap out of the little darling when he mouths off to... whatever it is they are talking about. I have no idea what the device is and am about as uninterested in finding out as one could possibly be.

    The apparent greatness of the later baby boom generation as parent appears to manifest itself in the helicopter variety... those neurotics who are raising their children to be entitled, frightened, timid, emotionally fragile little bastards who know nothing of manners, are offended by everything, and whose parents will demand you be fired or executed if you do or say anything to upset their little darling's world of bunnies, light, and unicorn poo.

    My friend is a teacher at Brooklyn Tech. He just finished his 33rd year - NO idea how in hell he managed it. I left after 2 with nary a nerve remaining to me. He was "investigated" FOUR times last year. This is a really big deal because lawyers are involved, or had best be if you don't want to lose your job. He was investigated for... get this, "child abuse". What did he do? He demanded to see students' homework, no lie. The little $#@!ers failed to do their work and he called them on the carpet. Said $#@!ers go to the principal and say "I don't feel safe..." The next thing you know, you're on the business end of an official investigation that could end your career and leave you without any retirement benefit. They may be stupid bastards, but the little $#@!s are clever as all hell, and they are 100x more vicious and treacherous than Stalin and Mao put together. They know how to work the system and they look for ANY opportunity to do so.

    If I were forced back into a public school, I'd be in handcuffs before the first half of the first day was through.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

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  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by DGambler View Post
    Don't understand why people intentionally have a device in their house that constantly listens to everything going on around it.
    Simple, complete, correct answer: Sheer, utter, bottomless stupidity.

    No rocket surgery for that one.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Maybe Suz is from the future ... "Hello, computer ..."


    Maybe I am.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by DGambler View Post
    Don't understand why people intentionally have a device in their house that constantly listens to everything going on around it.
    Same reason people will gladly pay for-or voluntarily GIVE themselves into-their own slavery, regardless what form it takes-marketing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
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  25. #22
    To parents, don't allow technology to be you child's center. As much as possible don't let them handle any gadget because it will not do any good to them.

  26. #23
    Eventually, with all the gender fluidity and self-identifying, the terms "sir" and "ma'am" will be verboten. I expect to be "retrained" at work any day now.
    #NashvilleStrong

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  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Eventually, with all the gender fluidity and self-identifying, the terms "sir" and "ma'am" will be verboten. I expect to be "retrained" at work any day now.
    I hope you went through the unconscious bias training already?



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  29. #25
    Oh, yes. They sort of told us not to judge a book by its cover, then the training proceeded to judge the books by the covers.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  30. #26
    btw, it's obviously Trump's fault teh kiddos are rude.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Oh, yes. They sort of told us not to judge a book by its cover, then the training proceeded to judge the books by the covers.
    The irony of the situation is epic. Yet everybody follows.

  32. #28
    I was probably the only one in the room that realized what was happening.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    I was probably the only one in the room that realized what was happening.
    That's what everybody in that room was thinking.



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