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Thread: US military uses 8-inch floppy disks to coordinate nuclear force operations

  1. #1

    US military uses 8-inch floppy disks to coordinate nuclear force operations

    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/25/us-mi...perations.html

    25 May 2016

    Maybe they use the '80s flick "War Games" as a training film, too.

    The U.S. Defense Department is still using — after several decades — 8-inch floppy disks in a computer system that coordinates the operational functions of the nation's nuclear forces, a jaw-dropping new report reveals.

    The Defense Department's 1970s-era IBM Series/1 Computer and long-outdated floppy disks handle functions related to intercontinental ballistic missiles, nuclear bombers and tanker support aircraft, according to the new Government Accountability Office report.
    The department's outdated "Strategic Automated Command and Control System" is one of the 10 oldest information technology investments or systems detailed in the sobering GAO report, which calls for a number of federal agencies "to address aging legacy systems."

    The report shows that creaky IT systems are being used to handle important functions related to the nation's taxpayers, federal prisoners and military veterans, as well as to the U.S. nuclear umbrella.



    "Federal legacy IT systems are becoming increasingly obsolete: Many use outdated software languages and hardware parts that are unsupported," the report found. "Agencies reported using several systems that have components that are, in some cases, at least 50 years old."

    Defense has plans to upgrade its nuclear-related technology system soon. Lt. Col. Valerie Henderson, department spokeswoman, said: "This system remains in use because, in short, it still works. However, to address obsolescence concerns, the floppy drives are scheduled to be replaced with Secure Digital devices by the end of 2017. Modernization across the entire Nuclear Command, Control, and Communications (NC3) enterprise remains ongoing."

    Other agencies are moving toward that more slowly, at best. More than 75 percent of $80 billion budgeted for federal IT efforts across all agencies in fiscal 2015 was spent on operations and maintenance investment, and such spending has increased in the past seven years, GAO noted.

    In contrast, spending on "development, modernization and enhancement" of federal IT systems has declined, according to GAO.

    The office noted that the government plans to require agencies to identify which IT systems need to be updated, and then modify them. But until then, the GAO warned, "the government runs the risk of maintaining systems that have outlived their effectiveness."
    In testimony to Congress on Wednesday, the chief technology officer of the IRS said that although the agency continues to operate a number of older IT systems, "it is not our preference to do so."

    "Our ultimate goal is to retire all of them as quickly as possible," said Terence Milholland, the IRS tech officer.

    GAO pointed out that aging systems include the Treasury Department's "individual master file," which is the authoritative data source for individual taxpayers. It's used to assess taxes and generates refunds. That file "is written in assembly language code — a low-level computer code that is difficult to write and maintain — and operates on an IBM mainframe," the report said.

    Treasury's master business file, which contains all tax data on individual business income taxpayers, likewise is written in that same assembly language code, which was first used in the 1950s, and maintained on the old-school IBM mainframe.

    While Treasury has general plans to replace the systems, "there is no firm date associated with the transition," GAO's report said.

    In addition to Defense, the departments of Treasury, Commerce, Health and Human Services and Veterans Affairs "reported using 1980s and 1990s Microsoft operating systems that stopped being supported by the vendor more than a decade ago," GAO said.

    And the Social Security Administration "reported rehiring retired employees to maintain its" systems which use COBOL, the computer programming language which was widely used — in the 1970s — according to GAO.

    COBOL is also used by the Justice Department in its program to provide information about prison inmates, and the VA, which uses it for employee timekeeping and to track veterans' benefits claims and dates of death, the report said.




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  3. #2
    I don't understand why this is a bad thing. The tech works, and it adds a layer of security. Who is going to have the ability to read/write 8" floppies just laying around outside the security perimeter?

    Sure, modernize the stuff you need to, but why not keep the "key" on an 8" floppy forever? Will make it awful hard for an outside force to steal the codes or seize control over the missiles.

    ETA: I'd rather keep the codes on an 8" floppy which almost nobody can read, than a USB thumb drive which basically anyone can.
    Last edited by GunnyFreedom; 05-26-2016 at 04:45 PM.

  4. #3
    Wait, we spend $800,000,000,000 a year on military spending and now they want more???

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    I don't understand why this is a bad thing. The tech works, and it adds a layer of security. Who is going to have the ability to read/write 8" floppies just laying around outside the security perimeter?

    Sure, modernize the stuff you need to, but why not keep the "key" on an 8" floppy forever? Will make it awful hard for an outside force to steal the codes or seize control over the missiles.

    ETA: I'd rather keep the codes on an 8" floppy which almost nobody can read, than a USB thumb drive which basically anyone can.
    ^this

    Clearly, the compute/storage demand is not exceeding the capacity. There are security concerns which should primarily be addressed by physical security measures - I dont think you'd want these systems residing in a network DMZ somewhere. We still see tape reels in use, albeit less and less. Just in the last year we had destroyed hundreds of cartridges (those are still common and managed by robots)

    As for reliability - the hardware from the 70's and 80's was designed for 50 year service life - some more than that. The sh!t they make today, when not engineered for deliberate obsolescence, is designed to last 3-5 years. Most of the quality issues are addressed with quantity. Low quality is acceptable because its cheap and disposable.

    The mainframe is a general exception, but even that platform is designed with 1/2 the service life of hardware built only 20 years ago.

    Here's a fun teardown vid by Dave Jones of EEVBlog. He's tearing apart a 3390 DASD (hard drive) from the late 80's.



    So I'd agree that there's no real need to upgrade. As for the comments about "low level code", that's horsesh!t. Mainframes built today will execute with nearly perfect backward compatibility, the same code that was written in the 60's,70's, and 80's with almost no alterations (none since y2k). Assembler, cobol, all in common use today, just like it was yesterday.

    Now, the microsoft stuff... eh... hard to argue, but.. Reminds me of an old "Car Talk" episode where a caller asked whether he should change the oil in his Honda that had 150k on the clock? He claimed to be running on the same oil it came with when purchased new, and it was still running after 150k. The answer was perfect; why change the oil now?

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  6. #5
    Nothing creeps me out more than a launch suitcase with the built-in 1.44 disk drive...

    Unlikely to be hacked by some kid Hell-bent on destroying the world.

    The drive is only used to boot and reprogram it; the electronics are bullet-proof though, no worries.

  7. #6
    Who still has one of these Zip drives?



    They could hold up to 750MB the last time I checked. They never really took off because CD burners/media became cheap, plus USB 2.0 and growing capacity of USB sticks made them more attractive.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    Who still has one of these Zip drives?
    They could hold up to 750MB the last time I checked. They never really took off because CD burners/media became cheap, plus USB 2.0 and growing capacity of USB sticks made them more attractive.
    Click of death
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Click_...ega_Zip_drives

  9. #8
    Crimenentlies, with as much money as you get each year, couldn't you at least move into this tech millennium? SHEESH!



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    Who still has one of these Zip drives?



    They could hold up to 750MB the last time I checked. They never really took off because CD burners/media became cheap, plus USB 2.0 and growing capacity of USB sticks made them more attractive.
    I used a Jaz Drive. Presumably it still works but I haven't touched it in like 10 years.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    Who still has one of these Zip drives?



    They could hold up to 750MB the last time I checked. They never really took off because CD burners/media became cheap, plus USB 2.0 and growing capacity of USB sticks made them more attractive.
    I have one of those around here some place.

  13. #11
    If an investigatory journalist ever found out how many mag amps and tubes are on a warship, their head would probably explode. That's 100 year old technology.

    XNN
    "They sell us the president the same way they sell us our clothes and our cars. They sell us every thing from youth to religion the same time they sell us our wars. I want to know who the men in the shadows are. I want to hear somebody asking them why. They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are but theyre never the ones to fight or to die." - Jackson Browne Lives In The Balance



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