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Thread: Robert Kagan: This is how fascism comes to America

  1. #1

    Robert Kagan: This is how fascism comes to America

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...3e7_story.html

    May 18, 2016

    The Republican Party’s attempt to treat Donald Trump as a normal political candidate would be laughable were it not so perilous to the republic. If only he would mouth the party’s “conservative” principles, all would be well.

    But of course the entire Trump phenomenon has nothing to do with policy or ideology. It has nothing to do with the Republican Party, either, except in its historic role as incubator of this singular threat to our democracy. Trump has transcended the party that produced him. His growing army of supporters no longer cares about the party. Because it did not immediately and fully embrace Trump, because a dwindling number of its political and intellectual leaders still resist him, the party is regarded with suspicion and even hostility by his followers. Their allegiance is to him and him alone.

    And the source of allegiance? We’re supposed to believe that Trump’s support stems from economic stagnation or dislocation. Maybe some of it does. But what Trump offers his followers are not economic remedies — his proposals change daily. What he offers is an attitude, an aura of crude strength and machismo, a boasting disrespect for the niceties of the democratic culture that he claims, and his followers believe, has produced national weakness and incompetence. His incoherent and contradictory utterances have one thing in common: They provoke and play on feelings of resentment and disdain, intermingled with bits of fear, hatred and anger. His public discourse consists of attacking or ridiculing a wide range of “others” — Muslims, Hispanics, women, Chinese, Mexicans, Europeans, Arabs, immigrants, refugees — whom he depicts either as threats or as objects of derision. His program, such as it is, consists chiefly of promises to get tough with foreigners and people of nonwhite complexion. He will deport them, bar them, get them to knuckle under, make them pay up or make them shut up.

    That this tough-guy, get-mad-and-get-even approach has gained him an increasingly large and enthusiastic following has probably surprised Trump as much as anyone else. Trump himself is simply and quite literally an egomaniac. But the phenomenon he has created and now leads has become something larger than him, and something far more dangerous.

    Republican politicians marvel at how he has “tapped into” a hitherto unknown swath of the voting public. But what he has tapped into is what the founders most feared when they established the democratic republic: the popular passions unleashed, the “mobocracy.” Conservatives have been warning for decades about government suffocating liberty. But here is the other threat to liberty that Alexis de Tocqueville and the ancient philosophers warned about: that the people in a democracy, excited, angry and unconstrained, might run roughshod over even the institutions created to preserve their freedoms. As Alexander Hamilton watched the French Revolution unfold, he feared in America what he saw play out in France — that the unleashing of popular passions would lead not to greater democracy but to the arrival of a tyrant, riding to power on the shoulders of the people.

    This phenomenon has arisen in other democratic and quasi-democratic countries over the past century, and it has generally been called “fascism.” Fascist movements, too, had no coherent ideology, no clear set of prescriptions for what ailed society. “National socialism” was a bundle of contradictions, united chiefly by what, and who, it opposed; fascism in Italy was anti-liberal, anti-democratic, anti-Marxist, anti-capitalist and anti-clerical. Successful fascism was not about policies but about the strongman, the leader (Il Duce, Der Führer), in whom could be entrusted the fate of the nation. Whatever the problem, he could fix it. Whatever the threat, internal or external, he could vanquish it, and it was unnecessary for him to explain how. Today, there is Putinism, which also has nothing to do with belief or policy but is about the tough man who single-handedly defends his people against all threats, foreign and domestic.

    To understand how such movements take over a democracy, one only has to watch the Republican Party today. These movements play on all the fears, vanities, ambitions and insecurities that make up the human psyche. In democracies, at least for politicians, the only thing that matters is what the voters say they want — vox populi vox Dei. A mass political movement is thus a powerful and, to those who would oppose it, frightening weapon. When controlled and directed by a single leader, it can be aimed at whomever the leader chooses. If someone criticizes or opposes the leader, it doesn’t matter how popular or admired that person has been. He might be a famous war hero, but if the leader derides and ridicules his heroism, the followers laugh and jeer. He might be the highest-ranking elected guardian of the party’s most cherished principles. But if he hesitates to support the leader, he faces political death.

    In such an environment, every political figure confronts a stark choice: Get right with the leader and his mass following or get run over. The human race in such circumstances breaks down into predictable categories — and democratic politicians are the most predictable. There are those whose ambition leads them to jump on the bandwagon. They praise the leader’s incoherent speeches as the beginning of wisdom, hoping he will reward them with a plum post in the new order. There are those who merely hope to survive. Their consciences won’t let them curry favor so shamelessly, so they mumble their pledges of support, like the victims in Stalin’s show trials, perhaps not realizing that the leader and his followers will get them in the end anyway.

    A great number will simply kid themselves, refusing to admit that something very different from the usual politics is afoot. Let the storm pass, they insist, and then we can pick up the pieces, rebuild and get back to normal. Meanwhile, don’t alienate the leader’s mass following. After all, they are voters and will need to be brought back into the fold. As for Trump himself, let’s shape him, advise him, steer him in the right direction and, not incidentally, save our political skins.

    What these people do not or will not see is that, once in power, Trump will owe them and their party nothing. He will have ridden to power despite the party, catapulted into the White House by a mass following devoted only to him. By then that following will have grown dramatically. Today, less than 5 percent of eligible voters have voted for Trump. But if he wins the election, his legions will likely comprise a majority of the nation. Imagine the power he would wield then. In addition to all that comes from being the leader of a mass following, he would also have the immense powers of the American presidency at his command: the Justice Department, the FBI, the intelligence services, the military. Who would dare to oppose him then? Certainly not a Republican Party that lay down before him even when he was comparatively weak. And is a man like Trump, with infinitely greater power in his hands, likely to become more humble, more judicious, more generous, less vengeful than he is today, than he has been his whole life? Does vast power un-corrupt?

    This is how fascism comes to America, not with jackboots and salutes (although there have been salutes, and a whiff of violence) but with a television huckster, a phony billionaire, a textbook egomaniac “tapping into” popular resentments and insecurities, and with an entire national political party — out of ambition or blind party loyalty, or simply out of fear — falling into line behind him.



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  3. #2
    "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." -- Sinclair Lewis (1935)

  4. #3
    Robert Kagan (born September 26, 1958) is an American historian, author, columnist, and foreign-policy commentator. Kagan is often characterized as a leading neoconservative, but prefers to call himself a "liberal interventionist".[1]

    A co-founder of the neoconservative Project for the New American Century,[2][3][4] he is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.[5] Kagan has been a foreign policy adviser to U.S. Republican presidential candidates as well as Democratic administrations via the Foreign Affairs Policy Board. He writes a monthly column on world affairs for the Washington Post, and is a contributing editor at The New Republic.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kagan

    Sounds to me like he's peeing in his Post Toasties that the neoconservative takeover of the conservative movement, if not the Republican Party, is being upset.

    Kagan is often characterized as a leading neoconservative, but prefers to call himself a "liberal interventionist"
    Sounds about right. It's unfortunate that the conservatives were so propagandized by FOX that they couldn't/didn't figure this out.
    Last edited by LibertyEagle; 05-22-2016 at 10:46 AM.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  5. #4
    Kagen is a sore loser. Probably called on people to fall in line behind McCain and Romney.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  6. #5
    Because Robert Kagan and his neoconservative allies have done such a great job of running the nation. Endless war, big brother surveillance state, massive government spending, Federal Reserve pyramid schemes, uncontrolled immigration, redistribution of wealth, socialism, and bailouts of the too big to fail cronies.

    That could never result in blowback.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
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    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

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    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  7. #6
    Yeah, Kagan is clearly upset not because fascism is coming to America, but rather upset that it isn't his fascist.

    Doesn't mean he's wrong. He is one of those who have been laying the foundation for fascism all along; he certainly ought to know. The fact that his group went to the trouble, then let it slip through their fingers is a good thing. But it doesn't mean he's wrong. The only lie he's telling comes when he says Hillary Clinton is any different.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Because Robert Kagan and his neoconservative allies have done such a great job of running the nation. Endless war, big brother surveillance state, massive government spending, Federal Reserve pyramid schemes, uncontrolled immigration, redistribution of wealth, socialism, and bailouts of the too big to fail cronies.

    That could never result in blowback.
    Blowback falls on us, not him. Our nation and his nation aren't the same.

  9. #8
    except in its historic role as incubator of this singular threat to our democracy
    That made my head explode.

    So, people democratically electing fascists, of which O-bomb-ya is one as well, are a threat to...democracy?



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  11. #9
    Mr. PNAC, Mr. MIC Corporatist, Mr. War for economic imperialism, Mr. Fascist Neocon, Robert Kagan, warning about fascism. Is this some twisted bizarro world joke. It's like Karl Marx giving a warning about socialism.

    Robert Kagan, the guy that stands for torture, managed trade via secret agreements, indefinite detention, total surveillance, fiat currency, NSA, FISA, NDAA, Patriot Act, perpetual warfare, preemptive warfare, funding terrorists, regime change and color revolutions, destruction of Fourth Amendment, destruction of Fifth Amendment, total surveillance (of internet, wiretapping, email snooping, telephone recording, travel tracking, purchases, financial transaction, accounts, …), perpetual debt, drone assassinations, foreign welfare, crony socialism, military imperialism, and on and on ...

    In other words, that guy that has made his entire career out of promoting and supporting fascist policies, actions and laws is going to warn of fascism.
    Fascism has already been introduced to America, and Kagan has been striving his whole career for the title as its most notorious champion.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  12. #10

    Trump is the GOP’s Frankenstein monster. Now he’s strong enough to destroy the party

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6156757

    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Robert Kagan: Trump is the GOP’s Frankenstein monster. Now he’s strong enough to destroy the party.

    So what to do now? The Republicans’ creation will soon be let loose on the land, leaving to others the job the party failed to carry out. For this former Republican, and perhaps for others, the only choice will be to vote for Hillary Clinton. The party cannot be saved, but the country still can be.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kagan

    Sounds to me like he's peeing in his Post Toasties that the neoconservative takeover of the conservative movement, if not the Republican Party, is being upset.


    Sounds about right. It's unfortunate that the conservatives were so propagandized by FOX that they couldn't/didn't figure this out.
    I'm no supporter of Trump and this is spot on.

    Kagan is a Chief Executive Neo-Con Douchebag. Anything that gets him upset is a good thing.
    The wisdom of Swordy:

    On bringing the troops home
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are coming home, all the naysayers said they would never leave Syria and then they said they were going to stay in Iraq forever.

    It won't take very long to get them home but it won't be overnight either but Iraq says they can't stay and they are coming home just like Trump said.

    On fighting corruption:
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump had to donate the "right way" and hang out with the "right people" in order to do business in NYC and Hollyweird and in order to investigate and expose them.
    Fascism Defined

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    I'm no supporter of Trump and this is spot on.

    Kagan is a Chief Executive Neo-Con Douchebag. Anything that gets him upset is a good thing.
    What gets him upset is people realizing that Clinton and Trump are the same thing, when he's so invested in convincing them that one is more of a monster than the other.

    And, yes, that's a good thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    What gets him upset is people realizing that Clinton and Trump are the same thing, when he's so invested in convincing them that one is more of a monster than the other.

    And, yes, that's a good thing.
    Now when "libertarians" realize that Johnson is not the way, the truth and the light, we'll be all set.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Now when "libertarians" realize that Johnson is not the way, the truth and the light, we'll be all set.
    And are we going to do anything toward that end besides misrepresent his positions on middle eastern interventions?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Now when "libertarians" realize that Johnson is not the way, the truth and the light, we'll be all set.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    And are we going to do anything toward that end besides misrepresent his positions on middle eastern interventions?
    POT

    kETTLE

    BLACK

    Correction: It was Africa he wanted to attack; for "humanitarian reasons" don't ya know. http://www.foxnews.com/transcript/20...ary-game-plan/
    Last edited by LibertyEagle; 05-23-2016 at 09:29 AM.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights



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  20. #17
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    Naomi Wolf wrote all about this at the end of the Bush years.

    Fascist America, in 10 easy steps
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/200...24/usa.comment
    Citizen of Arizona
    @cleaner4d4

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  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    POT

    kETTLE

    BLACK

    Correction: It was Africa he wanted to attack; for "humanitarian reasons" don't ya know. http://www.foxnews.com/transcript/20...ary-game-plan/
    Hmm, this was actually something that I didn't know about Gary Johnson. I'm actually starting to be sorry that I voted for him in 2012, he's reminding me way too much of Bernie Sanders lately.

  22. #19
    And the politics junkies go wild.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." -- Sinclair Lewis (1935)
    Aratus looks up.
    Possibly... possibly
    Maybe it might.

  24. #21
    Is DJT about to shatter the GOP into THREE distinct political parties?
    One being Auld Whig, another being almost libertarian in principle, and
    the third being Trumpster mosh-pit aggressive? Jeb Bush is very Whig.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    Mr. PNAC, Mr. MIC Corporatist, Mr. War for economic imperialism, Mr. Fascist Neocon, Robert Kagan, warning about fascism. Is this some twisted bizarro world joke. It's like Karl Marx giving a warning about socialism.

    Robert Kagan, the guy that stands for torture, managed trade via secret agreements, indefinite detention, total surveillance, fiat currency, NSA, FISA, NDAA, Patriot Act, perpetual warfare, preemptive warfare, funding terrorists, regime change and color revolutions, destruction of Fourth Amendment, destruction of Fifth Amendment, total surveillance (of internet, wiretapping, email snooping, telephone recording, travel tracking, purchases, financial transaction, accounts, …), perpetual debt, drone assassinations, foreign welfare, crony socialism, military imperialism, and on and on ...

    In other words, that guy that has made his entire career out of promoting and supporting fascist policies, actions and laws is going to warn of fascism.
    Fascism has already been introduced to America, and Kagan has been striving his whole career for the title as its most notorious champion.

    But AMERICA was already gonzo and twisted when RMN blundered his '70s way towards an impeachment.



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