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Thread: Shop owner's English-only ordering policy stirs controversy

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by jbauer View Post
    Hrrmmm, thread winner!!
    Quote Originally Posted by jbauer View Post
    I'm going to prison soon!!

    My parents, they should be hung in a public setting, then shot, then put on display. I was driving the mower before I could reach the peddles. Ran it into the clothesline and had to let it sit there and spin till I could get dad to help me get it out of gear.
    My question back to DamianTV is "Why won't so many native speakers do that here?"
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    My question back to DamianTV is "Why won't so many native speakers do that here?"
    Isn't that a little besides the point? There is no denying the lack of industry in today's Americans, but what does that have to do with the topic?
    "The Patriarch"

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    Should it be the law? Hell no. I should be able to decide I don't want kids, or dogs, or women, or whatever, in my establishment. I could cater only to fat, bearded smokers over 50. I will deal with the financial results of those decisions, of course.
    Exactly.

  5. #64
    There are plenty of places that won't wait on you in Miami if you don't speak Spanish.



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    If you're not one of those who thinks Spanish speaking people in America are sub-humans, and you honestly believe they're people, then you don't have much excuse... install DuoLingo on your phone at least and start picking it up.
    Even though I actually am studying a bit of Spanish on DuoLingo as we speak, I hope this sentence was parody and not serious.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Miriam Godwinson View Post
    We Must Dissent.

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Isn't that a little besides the point? There is no denying the lack of industry in today's Americans, but what does that have to do with the topic?
    If there's an issue with foreigners learning English, the implication is that native speakers can at least "reach the peddles" and learn to speak properly. The person I was quoting was applauding the idea that foreigners don't "talk English good" and that it's a major part of the problem. It's merely a pet peeve of mine for some reason. Carry on.
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    My question back to DamianTV is "Why won't so many native speakers do that here?"
    Yeah, my question was rhetorical. Short answer is they are offered a choice between what is Right and what is Easy, and I already posted my two cents on that in this post.

    Now, if I understand the question correctly, is that asking why wont Americans "just learn spanish"? I wont because I believe I shouldn't have to if I live in the US. That partially expands what is Right and Easy because it defends the historical values of the US. Not the corporatized imposed values, but values of the people. American people speak english. If one wants to come to America, then welcome, please come here to be a part of the American people and to become an American, not a Mexican in America that demands all us crackers learn their language. If we cater only to the immigrants and demand our own population learn the language of immigrants, then we have politicians and corporations that are pandering to the immigrants in an effort to displace the "more expensive" Americans in favor of immigrants who are more easily taken advantage of. Im also not a fan of "get the immigrants to vote" as many (not all) vote quite differently than Americans. Political pandering.

    Every country can handle some immigration, but there comes a point where the native society can be completely overwhelmed and displaces the native population. It takes time for immigrants to adapt to the new society in which they live. What I feel like is happening today is that the US govt has abandoned all protections of our society in favor of "cheaper" and "democratic leaning" immigrants. Illegal immigration seems very well to be encouraged, and when caught, barely a slap on the wrist. When I go to a store and everyone else in that store speaks spanish and I wont, I feel both displaced and completely betrayed. When I visit a school and see classrooms being taught in spanish that are not spanish classes, then I know that something is deeply wrong. And again, this isnt something against the immigrating individuals, but our policies and attitudes toward immigration.

    In general, it seems like our leaders are pushing more for encouraging both Welfare and Open Borders and insist on doing so for various reasons, very few of which takes societal responsibility of protecting the values of the individual from being displaced by immigration. I think what will be expected of me in 20 years, should I see two people speaking to each other in Chinese is to yell at them and demand they "speak spanish", not english.

    Now, this is all if I understood the phrasing of your question correctly. And sorry for the delay, I missed the question you posed.
    Last edited by DamianTV; 05-26-2016 at 04:00 PM.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    If there's an issue with foreigners learning English, the implication is that native speakers can at least "reach the peddles" and learn to speak properly. The person I was quoting was applauding the idea that foreigners don't "talk English good" and that it's a major part of the problem. It's merely a pet peeve of mine for some reason. Carry on.
    It's a legit peeve, if you run into someone who is not a native English speaker the LEAST you can do is use proper grammar and avoid colloquialisms. Talking is not a "let's see if I can confuse this guy" game. It is an attempt to communicate. Why would someone sabotage their own attempts to communicate by using broken English when talking to someone who may have English as a second, third, or even fourth language?

    I mean, I was always a stickler for using perfect and proper English when I was younger, and it was only when I became older that I really recognized the merits of participating in a common dialect, and allowed some of my English to break down in a controlled manner. However, whenever I talk to someone who is not fluent in English, I take special care to perfect my grammar syntax vocabulary and pronunciation in the hopes of achieving the best most efficient and clear communication possible.

    I mean, isn't that the actual goal of like 90% of all communication? Not the goal of the content, but the fact of communicating in the first place. To be clear and well understood? Sure the intent of some communication is to conflate and confuse, but that's rare and occurs under circumstances very unlikely in an ice cream shop.

  11. #69
    If I am talking to someone who is trying to speak English, I do not speak their language, and they appear to be having trouble, I will speak more slowly and annunciate as clearly as possible (not shout lol) and watch them to try to go at their pace. One of my pet peeves is when working with a remote in India or Bangladesh and they make no effort to annunciate at all, and then get frustrated when you do not understand what they are saying.

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Yeah, my question was rhetorical. Short answer is they are offered a choice between what is Right and what is Easy, and I already posted my two cents on that in this post.

    Now, if I understand the question correctly, is that asking why wont Americans "just learn spanish"? I wont because I believe I shouldn't have to if I live in the US. That partially expands what is Right and Easy because it defends the historical values of the US. Not the corporatized imposed values, but values of the people. American people speak english. If one wants to come to America, then welcome, please come here to be a part of the American people and to become an American, not a Mexican in America that demands all us crackers learn their language. If we cater only to the immigrants and demand our own population learn the language of immigrants, then we have politicians and corporations that are pandering to the immigrants in an effort to displace the "more expensive" Americans in favor of immigrants who are more easily taken advantage of. Im also not a fan of "get the immigrants to vote" as many (not all) vote quite differently than Americans. Political pandering.

    Every country can handle some immigration, but there comes a point where the native society can be completely overwhelmed and displaces the native population. It takes time for immigrants to adapt to the new society in which they live. What I feel like is happening today is that the US govt has abandoned all protections of our society in favor of "cheaper" and "democratic leaning" immigrants. Illegal immigration seems very well to be encouraged, and when caught, barely a slap on the wrist. When I go to a store and everyone else in that store speaks spanish and I wont, I feel both displaced and completely betrayed. When I visit a school and see classrooms being taught in spanish that are not spanish classes, then I know that something is deeply wrong. And again, this isnt something against the immigrating individuals, but our policies and attitudes toward immigration.

    In general, it seems like our leaders are pushing more for encouraging both Welfare and Open Borders and insist on doing so for various reasons, very few of which takes societal responsibility of protecting the values of the individual from being displaced by immigration. I think what will be expected of me in 20 years, should I see two people speaking to each other in Chinese is to yell at them and demand they "speak spanish", not english.

    Now, this is all if I understood the phrasing of your question correctly. And sorry for the delay, I missed the question you posed.
    Not a problem. My issue is that a lot of the people who seem to object to me speaking Spanish in public seem completely incapable of stringing together a coherent sentence of their own. Personally, I prefer market solutions to language preference as I stated earlier. There are certain ethnic markets where you're almost required to speak whatever the shop's products' national origin demands. Hell, there are certain areas of the country where you might be better off speaking another language to order a soup or cup of coffee.

    From an official standpoint, I have no problem with English becoming the official language of documents and phone lines and other such Government services (since we have them at all). Groups could easily translate those materials if a certain area has a need for them. There's certainly no shortage of people who can guide others through a brochure or process, and perhaps for a very small acknowledgement on the back of a pamphlet, La Raza could do something other than race bait and give people ammo to extend the hatred that keeps the organization in business.

    Let me extend this to what you said in your response. When you go to the store and everyone else is speaking Spanish, the issue is twofold. The first is that the patrons are speaking Spanish, which really should not bother you unless you feel a strange need to know what everyone around you is saying. Eavesdropping? The second is actually far more serious, though, which is that you can't do business with employees who can't communicate with you. I have voiced concerns along those lines in the past at some delightful Asian markets with mixed success. If they want your money, a business is going to do its best to help you out.

    The school example goes back to what I just said. Official languages dictate how public schools should operate. There are going to be a LOT of kids whose English is subpar, and at that point they should be taught within their own communities or at least tutored on that specific issue. There will be many people who fail going through school that way, but the ones that emerge tend to be well-rounded, truly bilingual, and a step ahead of their peers.

    And as for the custard? Again, the owner should be able to install whatever policies he or she wishes, and for whatever reasons. Let's assume the guy really is just the biggest racist ever. The next action shouldn't be to grab a pitchfork and go after him. It should be to shrug my shoulders and say "Okay. So?" and either order some custard or go somewhere else
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    If I am talking to someone who is trying to speak English, I do not speak their language, and they appear to be having trouble, I will speak more slowly and annunciate as clearly as possible (not shout lol) and watch them to try to go at their pace. One of my pet peeves is when working with a remote in India or Bangladesh and they make no effort to annunciate at all, and then get frustrated when you do not understand what they are saying.
    I broke in a guy from Mexico, we ended up working together for about ten years. He eventually pretty much became my partner, I made it a 55/45 split because I drove and provided the tools otherwise it would have been 50/50. But crazy as it seems I still don't speak much Spanish and his English is still abominable.
    "The Patriarch"

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