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Thread: Rand Paul Needs to Join the #NeverTrump Movement

  1. #1

    Rand Paul Needs to Join the #NeverTrump Movement

    https://alibertarianfuture.com/2016-...rump-movement/

    When Rand Paul was running for President he was one of the most outspoken critics of Donald Trump. While Ted Cruz was ignoring Trump, and hoping to gain his supporters in the future, Paul was taking Trump head on every chance he got. Rand Paul’s most visceral attacks include his famed appearance on the Nightly Show. You can see that segment above which was clipped together with other comments by NowThis. These criticisms have made it impossible for Rand Paul to ever support Donald Trump if he wins the Republican nomination. Rand Paul needs to join the #NeverTrump movement and make it clear that he will never vote for Donald Trump.


    In the very first debate Rand Paul called out Donald Trump on his hypocrisy and followed that up with more criticism in every subsequent debate. He has been one of the most steadfast detractors trying to expose Donald Trump for the big government liberal that he really is. There is no logical way that a libertarian Constitionalist like Rand Paul could ever support Donald Trump or the nativist authoritarian policies he supports. It would violate every single small government principle that Paul believes in.


    The only reason Rand Paul hasn’t declared he’ll never vote for Donald Trump is fear of the Republican establishment backlash. They have always threatened Republicans that would seek to split the party or not support the establishment nominee. Although, breaking ranks would not be as controversial this time as it may have been in previous years. His fellow Senator Ben Sasse and dozens of other elected Republicans have already publicly announced they’ll never vote for Donald Trump and seen no noticeable consequences. The dam has broken and more and more Republicans are declaring they’ll seek a third option in November every day.


    As a result of these successful mutinies, the implied penalty for Republicans breaking their loyalty pledges has evaporated. It was always a bluff by the Republican establishment but that bluff has been called once and for all. Rand Paul has no retribution from the Republican establishment to fear.


    Now that this weight has been lifted, Rand Paul can join the #NeverTrump movement and make it official that he’ll never vote for Donald Trump. There is nothing to hold him back any longer. Rand Paul can take his rightful place at the head of the movement and organize the millions of Republicans that will be looking for a third party in November. It’s high time that Rand Paul joined the #NeverTrump movement and put the issue to bed.
    I agree 100%.

    Here's what you should do Rand:

    Spread the word that you have a "big announcement to make about Donald Trump."

    The media will start speculating that you're going to endorse him.

    Then hold a press conference and pointedly NOT endorse him.

    Go on to explain in depth exactly what's wrong with his policies from a libertarian/conservative point of view.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 05-04-2016 at 06:36 PM.



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  3. #2
    IIRC, Rand's pledge was not just as a member of the GOP, it was a (signed?) pledge made as part of being a GOP Presidential candidate.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  4. #3

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post

    Go on to explain in depth exactly what's wrong with his policies from a libertarian/conservative point of view.
    FYI, traditional conservatives (the non-neocons) aren't in favor of the illegal alien invasion of our country. Nor do they believe in putting the interests of other countries before our own.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    #NeverTrump is dead
    Maybe the hashtag, not the movement.

    If anything, it's grown.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    FYI, traditional conservatives (the non-neocons) aren't in favor of the illegal alien invasion of our country. Nor do they believe in putting the interests of other countries before our own.
    Then why are they voting for Trump, who's for amnesty?

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Maybe the hashtag, not the movement.

    If anything, it's grown.
    Everything is an effing movement. The world has turned into one big toilet bowl and everything is one big splash.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    IIRC, Rand's pledge was not just as a member of the GOP, it was a (signed?) pledge made as part of being a GOP Presidential candidate.
    Any fallout from breaking such a pledge is peanuts compared to the fallout from being associated with Trump's trainwreck.

    Not to mention the tremendous opportunity to become a/the leader in the conservative anti-Trump faction.

    Imagine it's 2020/2024, Trump's name is mud, and Rand's the only candidate on stage who didn't endorse him.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Maybe the hashtag, not the movement.

    If anything, it's grown.
    LMAO. Trump supporters on Twitter are so clueless, they're the ones keeping the hashtag going.

  12. #10
    Check out the #neverTrump. Trump supporters are having a meltdown after realizing 9 months of insults and threats might not have been the best strategy to win hearts and minds.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  13. #11
    I agree. It's an opportunity to again re-iterate why Trump is a liberal.

  14. #12
    LOL, are folks now reduced to recommending that Rand formally join a movement the day after it died???? Think of how many ways that paints Rand as pathetic. From being late to the party that's just ended, to presenting like a sore loser over being one of Trump's early scalps, to breaking his word on the pledge, to breaking his word about supporting the party's presumptive nominee, to pretending a hashtag ever was a movement, to doubling down on the perception he was carrying water for the establishment (an image that helped bury his campaign), and so on. Wow, just, wow.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    LOL, are folks now reduced to recommending that Rand formally join a movement the day after it died???? Think of how many ways that paints Rand as pathetic. From being late to the party that's just ended, to presenting like a sore loser over being one of Trump's early scalps, to breaking his word on the pledge, to breaking his word about supporting the party's presumptive nominee, to pretending a hashtag ever was a movement, to doubling down on the perception he was carrying water for the establishment (an image that helped bury his campaign), and so on. Wow, just, wow.
    #NeverTrump wasn't just about denying him the nomination.

    It was/is about, well, never supporting Trump, at all, for anything, because he's garbage.

    And the damn hashtag is beside the point.

    The point is that Rand should oppose progressive Trump just as he would oppose progressive Hillary.

    ...and if you think only "the establishment" is opposing Trump, you're going to be disappointed come November.

    A large faction of the rank-and-file isn't going to turn out for Trump; hence he's losing states like Utah and Missouri in the polls.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 05-04-2016 at 08:07 PM.

  16. #14
    Rand should endorse a 3rd party candidate. I doubt he will. Sometimes I wish I was in Ron/Rand's shoes.

  17. #15
    this would be a bad move. He is already ideologically opposed to Trump. Announcing it to the world does nothing. Furthers no goals or agenda. Rand has no interest in a third party run. Endorsing a third party would further isolate and weaken his influence in the Senate.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    Endorsing a third party would further isolate and weaken his influence in the Senate.
    Yea, it would be unwise for Rand to endorse a third party. That would be crossing the line, he'd wreck his future in the GOP.

    Explicitly not endorsing Trump will be sufficient.

    He is already ideologically opposed to Trump. Announcing it to the world does nothing.
    The anti-Trump faction is currently looking for a leader.

    Rand would be the first former candidate, or nationally important political figure of any kind, to do this.

    = Opportunity
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 05-04-2016 at 08:33 PM.



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  20. #17
    Some of them are walking.

    Erickson: Conservatives eye third party candidate

    Washington (CNN )Conservative blogger and radio host Erick Erickson said Wednesday he's had a number of conversations about laying the groundwork for a third-party candidate to oppose Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton in the general election.

    Erickson, a leader of the #NeverTrump movement, told CNN that he plans more such conversations in the coming days, and that the consensus among anti-Trump conservatives is that voters who won't support Trump or Clinton need another option.

    "Donald Trump cannot consolidate the Republican base and many Republicans cannot accept a Hillary Clinton donor as the Republican nominee," Erickson said. "If the delegates ratify this madness in Cleveland, many of us will look elsewhere for a credible candidate to oppose both Trump and Clinton."

    He added, "We will begin now laying the groundwork for an exit strategy from Donald Trump's Republican Party."

    Erickson said several names are being floated, but wouldn't say whom. Erickson added that he and other conservatives interested in a third-party candidate understand that they're facing a tight window to recruit a candidate and launch a campaign.

    Erickson tweeted about his commitment to stopping Trump on Tuesday night, after the real estate mogul won Indiana's primary and knocked his strongest rival, Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, out of the race.

    "Reporters writing about the 'Stop Trump' effort get it wrong. It's 'Never Trump' as in come hell or high water we will never vote for Trump," Erickson tweeted.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Yea, it would be unwise for Rand to endorse a third party. That would be crossing the line, he'd wreck his future in the GOP.

    Explicitly not endorsing Trump will be sufficient.



    The anti-Trump faction is currently looking for a leader.

    Rand would be the first former candidate, or nationally important political figure of any kind, to do this.

    = Opportunity
    I might disagree here. It's easy to say "Never Trump" from the side lines. It's one thing to put your own neck on the line in the name of principle.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Any fallout from breaking such a pledge is peanuts compared to the fallout from being associated with Trump's trainwreck.

    Not to mention the tremendous opportunity to become a/the leader in the conservative anti-Trump faction.

    Imagine it's 2020/2024, Trump's name is mud, and Rand's the only candidate on stage who didn't endorse him.
    Dishonoring a very specific pledge, one which he pressed Trump on in the first debate, would not lead to good things in the future.

    Rand will have plenty of chances in the Senate to oppose Trump's actions if Trump becomes President.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by younglibertarian View Post
    I might disagree here. It's easy to say "Never Trump" from the side lines. It's one thing to put your own neck on the line in the name of principle.
    If this is "the big one" and the GOP splits right down the middle, Rand should not only endorse a third party but join it.

    But I don't think that's what this is.

    I can see the LP getting 3%, 4%, 5% maybe, but the GOP will still be standing afterward.

    ...as the only realistic vehicle for libertarians to win elections.

    So we don't want to burn our bridges just yet.

    But, let's see how this thing develops. Have Rand non-endorse Trump now. See what happens, maybe he goes further later.

  24. #21
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  25. #22
    ^^^What's the "Soon" in reference to?

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    If this is "the big one" and the GOP splits right down the middle, Rand should not only endorse a third party but join it.

    But I don't think that's what this is.

    I can see the LP getting 3%, 4%, 5% maybe, but the GOP will still be standing afterward.

    ...as the only realistic vehicle for libertarians to win elections.

    We don't want to burn our bridges just yet.

    But, let's see how this thing develops. Have Rand non-endorse Trump now. See what happens, maybe he goes further later.
    What good is the vehicle if you can never access the steering wheel and change the direction?

    The only real appeal of the GOP to liberty candidates is the bully pulpit. Getting on the debate stage and getting a little press and recognition is important. But what else does it offer to us? It has become clear that the media and the GOP will never let a true freedom loving candidate win their nomination. We already tried this twice with Ron Paul, who was as close to the perfect representation of a true liberty minded candidate you will ever find. He was the one who could unite.

    But even so they censored us, laughed at us, and negated us in every way possible. We would have had a real chance in 2012 if it weren't for the cheating and censorship.

    This GOP vehicle is driving right towards a giant manure pile, and the true liberty minded candidates need to jump off the band wagon before they get covered in $#@!.

    Excuse my French

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    ^^^What's the "Soon" in reference to?
    Soon.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by younglibertarian View Post
    What good is the vehicle if you can never access the steering wheel and change the direction?
    If the GOP is a car where we're stuck in the back seat, trying and usually (but not always) failing to grab the wheel, then the LP is a car that we drive, but it has no engine or wheels.

    The only real appeal of the GOP to liberty candidates is the bully pulpit. Getting on the debate stage and getting a little press and recognition is important.
    And that's a big deal. The liberty movement as we know it would not exist had Ron not switched to the GOP.

    Things were much more bleak for libertarians pre-2008, if you can believe it.

    But what else does it offer to us?
    Ron, Rand, Amash, Massie, etc, none of whom would have been elected in a million years on the LP ticket.

    Since 1971, the LP has elected exactly zero federal officials, zero governors, and a whopping 10 state legislators.

    It has become clear that the media and the GOP will never let a true freedom loving candidate win their nomination. We already tried this twice with Ron Paul, who was as close to the perfect representation of a true liberty minded candidate you will ever find. He was the one who could unite.
    We don't know that. It's hard, but it would be much harder in the LP.

    This GOP vehicle is driving right towards a giant manure pile, and the true liberty minded candidates need to jump off the band wagon before they get covered in $#@!.
    The time for that may come, but I don't think it's now.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by younglibertarian View Post
    What good is the vehicle if you can never access the steering wheel and change the direction?

    The only real appeal of the GOP to liberty candidates is the bully pulpit. Getting on the debate stage and getting a little press and recognition is important. But what else does it offer to us? It has become clear that the media and the GOP will never let a true freedom loving candidate win their nomination. We already tried this twice with Ron Paul, who was as close to the perfect representation of a true liberty minded candidate you will ever find. He was the one who could unite.

    But even so they censored us, laughed at us, and negated us in every way possible. We would have had a real chance in 2012 if it weren't for the cheating and censorship.

    This GOP vehicle is driving right towards a giant manure pile, and the true liberty minded candidates need to jump off the band wagon before they get covered in $#@!.

    Excuse my French
    Ron 2012 was all about building for a real chance with Rand 2016, but the people who were put in place in 2012 did not get the support they needed to hold their positions through the off years.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  31. #27
    With all due respect, I'd as soon see this subject dropped.

    Rand Paul is trying to maintain a reputation for honesty, and he promised to endorse the nominee. So I feel strongly that he ought to be allowed to keep a low profile on this thing.

    I think a promised endorsement along the lines of, 'I endorse the collective will of the good Americans who belong to the Grand Old Republican Party!' would speak volumes, without breaking vows. It would be subtle, and it would be classy, and it would make the situation clear enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  32. #28
    If the GOP is a car where we're stuck in the back seat, trying and usually (but not always) failing to grab the wheel, then the LP is a car that we drive, but it has no engine or wheels.
    True, but the result is the same. The car does not go where we need it to go, weather it works or not. Why not sit in the car with principle rather then the one heading south?

    And that's a big deal. The liberty movement as we know it would not exist had Ron not switched to the GOP.

    Things were much more bleak for libertarians pre-2008, if you can believe it.
    I agree. But now that stage is passing. I think candidates need to start out in the GOP, use the pulpit and then leave asap. Take the voters with them and draw them away. This is what Ron Paul NEEDED to do in 2008/2012. Pledge or not.

    We don't know that. It's hard, but it would be much harder in the LP.
    No one said it would be easy. But we had the IDEAL candidate at the IDEAL time, and we fell far from the finish line.

    Ron, Rand, Amash, Massie, etc, none of whom would have been elected in a million years on the LP ticket.

    Since 1971, the LP has elected exactly zero federal officials, zero governors, and a whopping 10 state legislators.
    I think for congressional/senate seats it is possible to win with a liberty platform. That is far different from the presidency.

    You know the famous saying. The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over while expecting a different result.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by younglibertarian View Post
    True, but the result is the same. The car does not go where we need it to go, weather it works or not. Why not sit in the car with principle rather then the one heading south?



    I agree. But now that stage is passing. I think candidates need to start out in the GOP, use the pulpit and then leave asap. Take the voters with them and draw them away. This is what Ron Paul NEEDED to do in 2008/2012. Pledge or not.



    No one said it would be easy. But we had the IDEAL candidate at the IDEAL time, and we fell far from the finish line.



    I think for congressional/senate seats it is possible to win with a liberty platform. That is far different from the presidency.

    You know the famous saying. The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over while expecting a different result.
    Ron's campaigns had a purpose, and was mostly successful up until the end of 2013 or so. Check out Gunny's post if you haven't already:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6210171
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  34. #30
    If tasty LIBERTY solution soundbites could be prepared showing less-gov
    is a better way to solve/implement Trump's campaign promise ideas

    (while gently pointing out how/why gov/force will likely have a specific negative
    outcome), those talking points might get free air time RIGHT NOW via the
    anti-Trump MSM chatter boxes. I think more of a general PSA would work
    better than pushing an alternate candidate/party/vote at this time.

    Public memory of HIGH ACCURACY might help Votes for Liberty Candidates
    in future elections (not timed right and too late for this election cycle).

    It seems likely that most things will unravel and problems will grow after more
    well-intended tyrannical ham-fisting. Then voters will want to hear why Trump
    could not cure everything as promised with more (smarter?) government.

    Trump might discover a use for liberty (small fire hidden deep in his belly) if he
    seeks and discovers another "new" approach the might work better, after his
    1st attempt takes a dive or does not take hold.

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