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Thread: Trump: Throw Free Trade Out the Window

  1. #1

    Trump: Throw Free Trade Out the Window

    Trump isn't just against managed trade deals. In fact, he's for them. He just wants to change their terms and pick different winners. He's positively against free trade.



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  3. #2
    He should throw himself out a window.

    ...economically illiterate demagogue.

  4. #3
    "You can only have free market, when you have smart people representing you." Donald Trump

    I don't remember Hayek saying the only way to have a free society is to have really smart planners.

    I am not going to start a Trump thread but here. This is the economic policy Trump believes in. Read it.

    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/28/icahn...e-country.html



    Icahn, who Trump had previously suggested could serve as his Treasury secretary, warned that markets will have a "day of reckoning" without fiscal stimulus, and argued that the U.S. government "certainly could do more spending."

    Additionally, worrying about a deficit when there is no significant inflation and the dollar remains the global reserve currency is not a smart way to govern, Icahn said, adding that "a country is not a company."



    While a company would go bankrupt if it owed too much money, the same could not be said of the United States anytime soon, Icahn explained, reiterating that he can't "understand this obsession" that many Republican politicians have with the deficit.
    "They keep saying we owe all this money to China, but we're really not going to pay it back ever in a normal way," Icahn said. "So China decides 'I want my money back.' OK, well how do you want it back? You want dollar bills, you want Treasurys, what do you want?"
    "And I never thought I'd agree completely with guys like (economist Paul) Krugman, but in this sense he's sort of right: I mean, you absolutely need fiscal stimulus in this economy."
    Last edited by Krugminator2; 05-02-2016 at 08:50 PM.

  5. #4
    I agree with Trump here. And I oppose the TPP.

    I get to chuckling whenever I read or hear the term "managed free trade." Mercantilist thugs operating outside the parameters of our system of checks and balances is more like it. Chipping away at sovereignty and suing it all away from people and nations both at home and abroad until there isn't any left and the special interests have repatriated the entire system in their favor and whatnot. Heh.

    Speak like this is why I'm gradually distancing myself away from mainstream "Liberty" circles. Managed free trade. Riiiiight...
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 05-02-2016 at 09:31 PM.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by J.Michael View Post
    I agree with Trump here. And I oppose the TPP.

    I get to chuckling whenever I read or hear the term "managed free trade." Mercantilist thugs operating outside the parameters of our system of checks and balances is more like it. Chipping away at sovereignty both at home and abroad until there isn't any left. Heh.
    Q. If Trump is going to make "better deals" with the Chinese et al, won't that also be managed trade?

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by J.Michael View Post
    I agree with Trump here.
    Are you really against free trade?

    If not, can you quote the part you agree with?

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by J.Michael View Post
    I get to chuckling whenever I read or hear the term "managed free trade." Mercantilist thugs operating outside the parameters of our system of checks and balances is more like it. Chipping away at sovereignty both at home and abroad until there isn't any left and the special interests have repatriated the entire system in their favor. Heh.
    I suppose this is how you view garage sales too? Are they also chipping away at sovereignty at home unless the sales are registered with the central bureau and proper sales tax paid on the transaction...?

    Just how much can we accomplish on our own initiative and without blessings from on high before we begin trampling on the sovereignty of our nation? Must we fill out forms and send them to Washington to borrow a handkerchief when our nose is runny?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I suppose this is how you view garage sales too? Are they also chipping away at sovereignty at home unless the sales are registered with the central bureau and proper sales tax paid on the transaction...?
    I'm not talking about a yard sale. I'm talking about foreign policy. Economic policy. Mercantilism and Capitalism are two entirely different phenomena. And frankly it is disingenuous to continue promoting mercantilism in the name of capitalism and the free market.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 05-02-2016 at 10:35 PM.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Q. If Trump is going to make "better deals" with the Chinese et al, won't that also be managed trade?
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    Are you really against free trade?

    If not, can you quote the part you agree with?
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I suppose this is how you view garage sales too? Are they also chipping away at sovereignty at home unless the sales are registered with the central bureau and proper sales tax paid on the transaction...?

    Just how much can we accomplish on our own initiative and without blessings from on high before we begin trampling on the sovereignty of our nation? Must we fill out forms and send them to Washington to borrow a handkerchief when our nose is runny?
    Okay. So, you guys all quoted me in stereo basically. I have some time to kill so I suppose I can talk about free trade with you and what is being pawned off as free trade. And why it isn't free trade at all.

    But before I do, I'd like to ask you all who responded so quickly and in synergy if you think I'm a stupid man. A dumb man? Do you guys feel like you need to educate me or something?

    I've written much on the board on the state of economics both foreign and domestic and goings on abroad. Things that people should be paying attention to yet don't spend a dimes worth of time discussing after the fact. I think I know a little bit about economics and the state of trade negotiations at the moment.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 05-02-2016 at 10:36 PM.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by J.Michael View Post
    Okay. So, you guys all quoted me in stereo basically. I have some time to kill so I suppose I can talk about free trade with you and what is being pawned off as free trade. And why it isn't free trade at all.
    What we have now is not free trade.

    Trump supporters often point this out, as if it's some kind of counterpoint, but I don't recall anyone ever claiming we have free trade now.

    The point is that Trump's policies (such as a 45% tax on imports from China) would be even further from free trade than the status quo.

    ...much much further.

    US tariff rates are at/near historical lows.

    But before I do, I'd like to ask you all who responded so quickly and in synergy if you think I'm a stupid man. A dumb man? Do you guys feel like you need to educate me or something?
    If you think Trump's trade policy represents a move toward free trade, yes, you need educating.

  13. #11
    Trump has always espoused protectionist views on economics, that's why Pat Buchanan took to him so early on. This is one of the reasons why it's important to have people like Rand Paul and Thomas Massie in the congress and senate, someone will need to check some of Trump's more ridiculously bad points once he's assumed office.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by J.Michael View Post
    I'm not talking about a yard sale. I'm talking about foreign policy. Economic policy. Mercantilism and Capitalism are two entirely different phenomena. Andf frankly it is disingenuous to contimue promoting mercantilism in the name of capitalism and the free market.
    I agree, except in this regard: Not all economic policy is foreign policy, and not all foreign policy is economic policy. You seemed to me to be blurring the line above, which is why I asked what I did.

    Garage sales may not be a major feature of economic policy, but are not unaffected by it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by J.Michael View Post
    Okay. So, you guys all quoted me in stereo basically. I have some time to kill so I suppose I can talk about free trade with you and what is being pawned off as free trade. And why it isn't free trade at all.
    There's no need for that. I'm sure we'll all agree with you. But Trump is all for managed trade. He's against free trade. He's not just against what's pawned off as free trade, but actual free trade.

    Trump is against capitalism and for mercantilism.

    Is that where you are?

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    What we have now is not free trade.
    Thank you, r3volution 3.0. Agreed. And that's essentuially my agreement with Trump.

    If you think Trump's trade policy represents a move toward free trade, yes, you need educating.
    I didn't say that I agree with his policy. All I said was that I agree with the observation that was made in the op's vid.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    There's no need for that. I'm sure we'll all agree with you. But Trump is all for managed trade. He's against free trade. He's not just against what's pawned off as free trade, but actual free trade.

    Trump is against capitalism and for mercantilism.

    Is that where you are?
    Oh, no, I'm a proponent of genuine free trade, e. But, yeah, I share the view that Trump is equally mercantist as those whom he is arguing against.

    I get that Trump is talking out of both sides of his mouth. I'm just agreeing with what he said out of the one side. He is correct to acknowledge it but I don't support what he likely intends to follow through with out of the other side of his mouth.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by J.Michael View Post
    Thank you, r3volution 3.0. Agreed. And that's essentuially my agreement with Trump.



    I didn't say that I agree with his policy. All I said was that I agree with the observation that was made in the op's vid.
    But if you agree with what r3v just said, that's the exact opposite of what Trump said in the video.

    Could you actually quote what Trump said that you agreed with?

    ETA: Never mind. I must have been typing this when you posted your reply to my previous question.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I agree, except in this regard: Not all economic policy is foreign policy, and not all foreign policy is economic policy. You seemed to me to be blurring the line above, which is why I asked what I did.

    Garage sales may not be a major feature of economic policy, but are not unaffected by it.
    Well. You're correct in that I did blur it. Reason being is because we've essentially reached a point where domestic and international financial clearing infrastructure and policy that goes with it no longer know borders or national policies. It isn't like the old days where he who ruled the seas enjoyed the luxury of currency reserve status. Those days are gone. That said, the U.S. may well not have the luxury of being the entity who dictates that policy. A lot of our own allies are even jumping over to the Asian Infrastructure Development Bank for one thing. That's a big deal.

    I'm just thinking of it in a geo-political way, I suppose. I understand why you brought up something like a yard sale, though. I'm thinking in terms of national/Individual sovereignty. Not taxes, per se. I understand the relevance. I just didn't go there.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 05-02-2016 at 10:26 PM.

  21. #18
    What "free trade", what window?

  22. #19
    The really "smart people" are the government lol.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by younglibertarian View Post
    The really "smart people" are the government lol.
    The world is run by C students.

  24. #21
    This is basically the establishment sales pitch since forever.

    "It's not that central planning doesn't work; it's that you're just not doing it right."

    Trump promises to be the most benevolent central planner in history. Where have I heard that before?

    Seriously. I can't believe people are falling for this $#@!.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    This is basically the establishment sales pitch since forever.

    "It's not that central planning doesn't work; it's that you're just not doing it right."

    Trump promises to be the most benevolent central planner in history. Where have I heard that before?

    Seriously. I can't believe people are falling for this $#@!.
    Seriously, I can't believe that you can't believe it.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    What "free trade", what window?
    The broken window?

  27. #24
    Because we all know how great protectionism was when Herbert Hoover tried it out in 1930.
    Stop believing stupid things



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  29. #25
    He is right to an extent about businesses going overseas, but it is not the fault of free trade. It is the result of over regulation and taxation here in the states. Any smart entrepreneur would move overseas to save money.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    Because we all know how great protectionism was when Herbert Hoover tried it out in 1930.
    No, we all don't. Care to be more specific? Please tell us you aren't going to cite Smoot-Hawley?

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Bossobass View Post
    No, we all don't. Care to be more specific? Please tell us you aren't going to cite Smoot-Hawley?
    Yes, yes I am. It was a terrible policy idea and helped prolong the Great Depression. And then the American public blamed the Republicans so they elected FDR who prolonged the Great Depression even longer.
    Stop believing stupid things

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    Yes, yes I am. It was a terrible policy idea and helped prolong the Great Depression. And then the American public blamed the Republicans so they elected FDR who prolonged the Great Depression even longer.
    No, FDR blamed the republicans and Americans like you swallowed it.

    Tariffs caused the depression. Tariffs prolonged the depression.

    What next?

    The FED prolonged the depression. Was it they who told you it was tariffs?

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Bossobass View Post
    No, FDR blamed the republicans and Americans like you swallowed it.

    Tariffs caused the depression. Tariffs prolonged the depression.

    What next?

    The FED prolonged the depression. Was it they who told you it was tariffs?
    Both tariffs and FDR's many horrible policies prolonged the depression.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Bossobass View Post
    No, FDR blamed the republicans and Americans like you swallowed it.

    Tariffs caused the depression. Tariffs prolonged the depression.

    What next?

    The FED prolonged the depression. Was it they who told you it was tariffs?
    It wasn't the FED that told me anything. I learned this at college in economics class (which was taught by a professor who thought FDR was one of our worst Presidents).
    Stop believing stupid things

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