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Thread: What Do The Swiss Know That We Don't?

  1. #1

    What Do The Swiss Know That We Don't?

    What Do The Swiss Know That We Don't?



    Their president(s) are mere figureheads, they resoundingly rejected the minimum wage yet workers are among the highest-paid in the world, they still value protection of personal banking information despite the US onslaught, and they hold strong to the principle of armed neutrality and non-intervention in world affairs. Why do the Swiss, despite their problems, seem to "get it" where we in the US do not? Today's guest, Global Gold's Claudio Grass, helps us understand.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  3. #2
    War is a racket?

  4. #3
    Very interesting conversation starting around the 8 minute mark. Ron Paul first asks about the problem of mass immigration. The Swiss "libertarian" solution is to put troops on the border and close it to migrants. They talk about protecting Swiss culture. Ron Paul also asks about the problematical rise of Cultural Marxism, and it is agreed that it is a big problem, and that the goal of cultural Marxism is the destruction of western culture.
    Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 04-28-2016 at 03:17 PM.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  5. #4
    Ron is opposed to troops closing the border. http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb...forum-20120201

    "Now there's a lot of antagonism and resentment turned just automatically on immigrants," he continued. "You say, no not immigrants, it's just illegal immigrants. I do believe in legal immigration. I want to have a provision to obey those laws. You have to understand this in the context of the economy."

    Paul said he's not one of those politicians who believes that "barbed-wire fences and guns on our border will solve any of our problems." That's not, he said, the American way. And he doesn't think that a national identification card is the way to go.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ron is opposed to troops closing the border. http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb...forum-20120201
    He didn't say that when it was talked about in the video.

    And I'll add that the libertarian that Ron invited on his show supports border security as a measure against massive migration.
    Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 04-28-2016 at 02:21 PM.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  7. #6
    What does Ron Paul say on the subject in the video?

    I tuned in at the 9:00 minute mark as you suggested and Ron did not express any opinion on military on the border or even any suggestions as to what the US should do. The guest said Switzerland was going to send 2000 troops to the border- Ron did not say he agreed or disagreed with their decision. I have to go with what he is actually quoted as saying- not what a guest may say.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 04-28-2016 at 03:10 PM.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    What does Ron Paul say on the subject in the video?

    I tuned in at the 9:00 minute mark as you suggested and Ron did not express any opinion on military on the border or even any suggestions as to what the US should do. The guest said Switzerland was going to send 2000 troops to the border- Ron did not say he agreed or disagreed with their decision. I have to go with what he is actually quoted as saying- not what a guest may say.
    My mistake, go to the 8 minute mark. That's where Ron first starts asking the question about migration, both in Europe and the US. It's obvious from the way that he phrases it that he views it as a problem. Quote: "it's a serious problem".
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  9. #8
    He does say that immigrants in Europe are a problem. (Even his guest said that Switzerland does not have a problem with the issue at this time). He does not say they are a problem here and he does not say how he would deal with the problem. The rest is assumptions. Again, I have to go with what he actually said on the issue.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 04-28-2016 at 03:35 PM.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    He does say that immigrants in Europe are a problem. (Even his guest said that Switzerland does not have a problem with the issue at this time). He does not say they are a problem here and he does not say how he would deal with the problem. The rest is assumptions. Again, I have to go with what he actually said on the issue.
    He says "one of the major issues now in this country is migration, immigration, borders". He doesn't say exactly how he would deal with it, but he acknowledges it.

    In a 2011 debate, Ron said: "I do think we should deal with our borders. One way that I would suggest that we could do it is pay less attention to the borders between Afghanistan and Iraq and Pakistan and bring our troops home and deal with the border. But why do we pay more attention to the borders overseas and less attention to the borders here at home?".
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Very interesting conversation starting around the 8 minute mark. Ron Paul first asks about the problem of mass immigration. The Swiss "libertarian" solution is to put troops on the border and close it to migrants. They talk about protecting Swiss culture. Ron Paul also asks about the problematical rise of Cultural Marxism, and it is agreed that it is a big problem, and that the goal of cultural Marxism is the destruction of western culture.
    It must be nice having your armed forces at home to be able to do that, rather than spread out thousands of miles away.

  13. #11
    2015 interview from Mises: https://mises.org/blog/ron-paul-sums...ws-immigration

    On Trump's plan to round up and deport 15 million people:

    Ron Paul: How practical do you think this would be to round up 15 million people without any consideration for due process?

    McAdams: You’d essentially need a police state because you’d practically have to be going to go door to door almost, because they don’t keep track of these people.

    Ron Paul: I think it’s impossible.

    On building a wall and controlling labor:

    Daniel McAdams: When we worked on immigration in your office, you were generally friendly with people who wanted some controls on the border. But we ran into terrible troubles with the extreme on [the conservative] side which wanted an authoritarian state here. They wanted "E-Verify" which means every American would have to prove he has a right to work in his own country. And then there's the wall they want.

    Ron Paul: You’ll need a really efficient wall and a coast guard that goes up and down the coast blowing boats out of the water…The idea of building walls around the country, I think it’s a joke. I could never take a position that we need more barbed wire to solve this problem.
    At the core of the matter, however, Paul repeatedly notes that the central problem is a weak economy that cannot absorb new workers, and a welfare state that subsidizes immigration. Just as with anyone, migrants should be permitted to participate in the economy. But the welfare state distorts the benefits of labor moving toward jobs and capital. The solution to this, however, is not walls and government agents, but reductions in the welfare state, and limits on citizenship.

    This position, of course, is consistent with Paul's usual laissez-faire positions in that it rejects government solutions in the form of ID cards, surveillance, regulation, and walls. At the same time, it calls for real reductions in government’s size and scope by reducing government controls on employment and labor, while reducing the welfare state. Limitations on citizenship are also consistent with this position since limiting citizenship (ceteris paribus) does not require an expansion of the state or intrusions in the free exercise of private property.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 04-28-2016 at 04:56 PM.

  14. #12
    xxxxx
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 07-25-2018 at 02:33 PM.
    You have the right to remain silent. Anything you post to the internet can and will be used to humiliate you.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    That having four different official languages isn't such a difficult thing to deal with?
    People here freak out if somebody speaks Spanish. "Send them back home!" Call in the troops to round them up!

    http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/migratio...rants/41145410

    Switzerland has highest number of immigrants

    Switzerland was the country with the largest number of permanent immigrants per capita in 2012, according to the 2014 International Migration Outlook compiled by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).

    The foreigners who settled permanently in Switzerland in 2012 comprised 1.6% of Switzerland’s population in that year. Switzerland is followed by Norway with 1.2% and Australia with 1.1%. In comparison, the largest OECD immigration country, the United States, had a share of permanent immigrants of 0.3% in 2012.

    Most of the immigrants to Switzerland came from European Union countries such as Germany, Portugal, Italy and France.

    According to preliminary figures, the number of people who moved their residence to Switzerland increased to 136,200 in 2013.
    In absolute numbers, Switzerland, with 125,600 immigrants, is below the OECD average. The list is topped by the US with one million, followed by Germany with about 400,000 and Britain with 285,000.

    Foreign born

    In another ranking of the OECD – the percentage of the population that is foreign born – Switzerland placed second, with 27.7%, topped by Luxemburg with 42.6% and followed by Australia with 27.3%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigr...to_Switzerland

    Population growth in Switzerland is mostly due to immigration: in 2009, there have been 78,286 live births recorded (74% Swiss, 26% foreign nationalities), contrasting with 62,476 deaths (92% Swiss, 8% foreigners). Thus, of the population growth rate of 1.1% during 2009, about 0.2% are due to births, and 0.9% due to immigration.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 04-28-2016 at 05:14 PM.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    People here freak out if somebody speaks Spanish. "Send them back home!" Call in the troops to round them up!
    This is America, they can learn the language or get out.

    We sure as $#@! aint learnin theirs
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  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    People here freak out if somebody speaks Spanish. "Send them back home!" Call in the troops to round them up!
    Yeah, I freak out every time I speak Spanish... People also freak out when I use the metric system.

    That being said, I witness a lot of difficulties and miscommunications due to language barriers.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    This is America, they can learn the language or get out.

    We sure as $#@! aint learnin theirs
    The Swiss use Italian, German, French and a rarer local dialect/ language Romanish (now less than one percent). The first three are all have equal status by law. And yet it hasn't destroyed their culture.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 04-28-2016 at 05:27 PM.



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  20. #17
    xxxxx
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 07-25-2018 at 02:35 PM.
    You have the right to remain silent. Anything you post to the internet can and will be used to humiliate you.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    That's not an interview from Mises. It's a opinion article written by someone after they watched an episode of the Liberty Report, which was already posted and discussed in this thread:

    When Does Open Immigration Become An Invasion?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    That's not an interview from Mises. It's a opinion article written by someone after they watched an episode of the Liberty Report, which was already posted and discussed in this thread:

    When Does Open Immigration Become An Invasion?
    This part was a direct quote by Ron:

    Ron Paul: You’ll need a really efficient wall and a coast guard that goes up and down the coast blowing boats out of the water…The idea of building walls around the country, I think it’s a joke. I could never take a position that we need more barbed wire to solve this problem.

  23. #20
    Zippyjuan spinning the government line once again!

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    This part was a direct quote by Ron:
    I agree with Ron. It's not a contradiction to believe in nations and borders, yet to not want to go overboard with walls and checkpoints.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  25. #22
    Maybe the Swiss have learned that some cultures don't mix well (like a bad baking
    recipe for disaster) and pouring in too much at a time and stirring faster and faster
    just makes big nasty clumps. They can see it's ruined even before it's half-baked.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    I agree with Ron. It's not a contradiction to believe in nations and borders, yet to not want to go overboard with walls and checkpoints.
    Given that net immigration from Mexico hit zero a few years ago, I would agree we don't need to add any more guards or walls to our border and raise our taxes and increase the size of government to do it.

    http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/1...ng-to-the-u-s/

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Given that net immigration from Mexico hit zero a few years ago, I would agree we don't need to add any more guards or walls to our border and raise our taxes and increase the size of government to do it.

    http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/1...ng-to-the-u-s/
    You keep repeating that tired line. People from all over the world are crossing our southern border not just Mexicans.
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  29. #25
    That is true but the number of illegal immigrants is still below what it was in 2007- from all countries. (Yes, I have also posted this many times before).


  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    That is true but the number of illegal immigrants is still below what it was in 2007- from all countries. (Yes, I have also posted this many times before).

    So illegals answered the census?
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  31. #27
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-...ers-1426259113

    How the Tally of Illegal Immigrants Adds Up, and Why It Matters

    Consistent estimates around 11 million allow policy makers baseline around which to plan, budget

    Illegal immigrants living in the U.S. have obvious reasons to want to avoid detection, even as the government and others try to figure out how many are here.

    The Department of Homeland Security in its official tally says 11.4 million unauthorized immigrants live here. The Pew Research Center, a nonpartisan think tank in Washington, D.C., puts the figure at around 11.2 million. And the Center for Migration Studies, a nonprofit based in New York, calculates that it’s just over 11 million.

    Keeping track is important for a variety of reasons. Schools, for example, must enroll K-12 students regardless of immigration status. Unauthorized immigrants without insurance will likely visit emergency rooms for health care, the cost covered in part by Medicaid. And changes in the population may influence border enforcement and other policies.

    President Barack Obama focused attention on the issues in November when he unveiled a series of executive actions that would protect up to 5 million illegal immigrants from deportation. The move was temporarily halted by a federal judge in response to a lawsuit questioning the president’s authority, so for now, we don’t know whether the estimated number of beneficiaries would have proved accurate.

    But it raises the question: How do demographers count a population that doesn’t wish to be found?

    Techniques for calculating the number of illegal immigrants have been around for at least 30 years. Traditionally, the calculation involves something called residual methodology—or, as most of us would think of it: subtraction.

    “The process is both simple and complicated,” said Jeffrey S. Passel, a demographer at the Pew Research Center who previously worked for the U.S. Census Bureau. “We determine how many immigrants are in the country legally, and we subtract that from how many are in the country total.”

    Until the 1980s, conventional wisdom held that illegal immigrants weren’t represented in government population surveys. But a supplement to the Current Population Survey in the early 1980s asked residents why they didn’t vote, and the number who responded by saying they weren’t citizens exceeded the estimated number of legal immigrants in the same area.

    “We discovered nonauthorized immigrants are in the data,” said Robert Warren, a visiting fellow at the Center for Migration Studies who previously was also a demographer at the Census Bureau. “That changed things.”

    Using the residual technique, which Messrs. Warren and Passel pioneered, researchers assume all foreign-born residents who entered the U.S. before 1980 or 1981 (depending on who’s doing the math) are legal. That is because immigrants who came in illegally before then were offered amnesty through the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986.

    Using that cutoff as a starting point, researchers determine the total number of foreign-born people who entered the country afterward from Census data—and subtract the number who entered the country legally, including permanent residents with green cards issued by the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, refugees, individuals granted asylum, and workers and students with temporary visas.

    To further refine the figures, the researchers estimate how many immigrants left the country; they apply standard mortality rates to deduce how many died; they calculate a margin of error due to sampling; and they adjust for undercounting in the Census.

    The Census Bureau has measurements of undercount that show consistent patterns by sex, age and race, and the researchers use these patterns to correct their figures.

    Men are more likely to be missed than women. The highest undercount rates are found in young adults in their 20s and 30s. And minorities are more likely to be missed than whites. Among immigrants, people who are naturalized U.S. citizens are less likely to be missed in government surveys, followed by legal immigrants, follow by unauthorized immigrants.

    Steven Camarota, director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies, which believes in strict enforcement of immigration laws, said there are “question marks” about the accuracy of the estimates because of the inherent challenges in counting an undocumented population. But the figures most likely are in the ballpark, he said.

    “It could be 12 million or 13 million,” Mr. Camarota said. “It doesn’t seem like it could be 15 million or 20 million.” If the estimates were dramatically off, Mr. Camarota said, it would be reflected in births and school enrollment figures, which he noted are not “out of whack” with the estimates.

    To help verify his own figures, Mr. Passel cross-references U.S. data with figures from the Mexico census. More than half of the unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. are from Mexico—or around 5.9 million, by Mr. Passel’s count. It is by far the largest source of illegal immigrants in the U.S.

    To test that figure, for example, he compares how many children age 4 and younger were born in Mexico 20 years ago with how many Mexicans age 20-24 live there now. The numbers should be roughly equal. If there are substantially fewer young adults, it suggests the number of immigrants in that age group who have entered the U.S.

    The uniformity of the estimates over time and between agencies gives the researchers confidence their estimates are on target. Still, it is impossible to know how close the estimates come to the real number.

  32. #28
    Using that cutoff as a starting point, researchers determine the total number of foreign-born people who entered the country afterward from Census data—and subtract the number who entered the country legally, including permanent residents with green cards issued by the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, refugees, individuals granted asylum, and workers and students with temporary visas.
    Lol, so illegals are answering the Census.

    $#@!, even I toss it in the garbage.

    help verify his own figures, Mr. Passel cross-references U.S. data with figures from the Mexico census. More than half of the unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. are from Mexico—or around 5.9 million, by Mr. Passel’s count. It is by far the largest source of illegal immigrants in the U.S.
    Again, they have no way to know that.
    Last edited by Danke; 04-29-2016 at 02:15 PM.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    So illegals answered the census?
    Sure. They check in when they arrive with a unique and verifiable identity. Those statistics are accumulated at the central Federal repository, where they are again massaged and distributed to Zippy's department, where he can share them with us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Again, they have no way to know that.
    They know all. They know nothing. The Ministry of Truth has no need for facts when creating propaganda.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Lol, so illegals are answering the Census.

    $#@!, even I toss it in the garbage.



    Again, they have no way to know that.
    Do you have any sort of estimates? How are they calculated? Or are you unsure if there is an immigrant problem or not?

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