Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 132

Thread: A new site vision; a new era

  1. #1
    Staff - Admin
    Houston, TX
    Bryan's Avatar


    Blog Entries
    3
    Posts
    8,284
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default A new site vision; a new era

    .


    Same Mission; New Vision
    The genesis of this website came in 2007 in support of Ron Paul’s 2008 presidential campaign. While the campaign itself was not successful, it achieved more for liberty than anyone could have imagined. In 2009/2010 the site rallied behind Rand Paul to help him win a seat in the U.S. Senate. Ron Paul’s 2011/2012 campaign again provided new focus and new goals for the site. After Dr. Paul’s campaign ended and he retired from Congress, the movement, and site, did not have a clear direction forward except for the possibility of a Rand Paul 2016 presidential campaign -- which, obviously, came to pass with less than stellar results.

    It can be argued that the contraction of liberty support for Rand’s 2016 campaign sent a message that our movement needed to regroup. While a strong liberty candidate may emerge in 2020 to help propel us, such an event is not guaranteed and is also a long way off. Whatever the case may be, sitting around and waiting for something to happen is not a good plan.

    While the movement is bigger than any one person or website, we play a role in the big picture and see a need to refocus with a new vision that will aim for us to become a bigger worldly influence; to have more reason to be here and to have a reason to be involved.

    The basis of our new vision is founded in the mindset of taking a more holistic approach to achieving our Mission with an aim to address the following:

    • We do not have a clearly defined understanding of what needs to be done to achieve our goals.
    • We can improve upon the way we organize and support projects.
    • We do not have an effective means to aggregate community wisdom.
    • We can be more proactive to achieve goals without dependence on an election campaign or other influences.
    • We can improve upon the means of identifying and communicating value for potential efforts.
    • We can be more proactive in our outreach, as a site.
    • We can improve the level of discourse of the site.
    • We can better utilize our forum assets.
    • We can improve the site's internal structures and presentation.



    What is Needed to Achieve Our Goals (base theory; long and skippable)
    If one gives extensive thought to our Mission, one can identify four key dilemmas that we face:
    1. What exactly is liberty?
    2. Why should people support liberty?
    3. How do we return to liberty?
    4. How can we assure that liberty is preserved?

    While point #1 may seem obvious enough, and there are some very clear elements we all agree with, there are constant battles within the liberty movement that show there are many points that are not very clear. Certainly the majority of people in our society don’t have a good grasp of the concepts. Many of these people could be said to have an ideological viewpoint of “We’re going to enslave you in order to keep you free”. So there are certainly a lot of questions on this issue.

    Point #2 also seems dead obvious, but there are many subtle points, such that the reasons liberty is important get lost.

    Point #3 is another key matter of concern and what has brought us together here. We’re trying to find ways back to liberty, which of course isn’t an easy problem to solve.

    Not many people have given point #4 much consideration, in part since it’s not really applicable today, but it is nonetheless a matter of great significance and should have ramifications on what we are trying to achieve. Consider, if we went back to the late 1700s, what would we have done differently? If we were nostalgic and said “nothing”, thinking that everything was done right, then we should also consider what was done lead us to where we are today.

    One lesson that I have identified is that there are two key points that are needed to preserve liberty: effective organization and a knowledgeable populace. The need for these two is inversely proportional to preserve liberty. Suppose the entirety of a populace has a clear understand of liberty -- why it should be supported and how it can be preserved -- then they could live happily under a dictator, since, if the dictator ever got out of line, their apparatus of enforcement and control would instantly dissolve and they would be removed from power. Of course, this level of understanding across the board isn’t too likely -- which is why structures that separate power have value.

    Ultimately, however, even within an ideal society with a power system as far from a dictatorship as possible, it will eventually turn into a ruthless dictatorship or oligarchy if the populace loses its understanding of the concept of liberty, why it’s important and how to defend it.

    In this way, to preserve liberty a society needs the right combination of an educated populace -- and the right amount of defense against an uneducated populace -- with effective organizational structures. This is true for any degree of organizational effectiveness and education; there just needs to be enough of the two to preserve liberty. This highlights the problems we have today, as we have lost the sum total needed to preserve liberty.

    From this it should be clear that to preserve liberty we would do best to have the optimal organizational structures and assure the populace stays fully educated on an ongoing basis. Consider that an organizational structure’s only purpose could be to drive the populace to liberty through education.

    In considering how to educate the populace, there are several points to consider. First, there are two groups of people: those who have bought in on the concepts of liberty and those who have not. For those who already subscribe to the ideas of liberty, for liberty to be preserved there has to be an accumulated body of knowledge which acts as a guiding point of what liberty is, why it is important and how to defend it. Extensive educational material is also needed to make the information consumable.

    Less obvious key points on defending liberty include how to maintain a well adjusted population. Preservation of liberty requires educated, healthy, financially sound people who know how to defend themselves, how to be self-sufficient, how to make wise judgments and more. All of this knowledge and material must be passed down and refined from generation to generation.

    Another key element to sustain liberty would be teaching critical thinking which enables one to identify the dilution of material.

    For individuals who are not yet in line with the liberty concepts, there need to be outreach campaigns to connect with them and introduce them to pro-liberty educational material.



    The Liberty Blueprint
    From the previous analysis we can see the following elements are needed to achieve and sustain liberty:

    1. Educational guide points on the definition of liberty.
    2. Educational guide points on why people should support liberty.
    3. Educational guide points on how to defend liberty.
    4. Educational programs to teach what liberty is, why it’s important and how to defend it.
    5. a) Outreach to connect our educational programs to new people. b) Execution of the programs.
    6. a) Strategies and plans on returning to liberty. b) Execution of the plans.
    7. a) Organizational structure plans needed to preserve liberty. b) Execution of the plans.

    Each of these elements needs to be developed and continuously refined. Again, this is the Liberty Blueprint to achieve and sustain liberty which also equally applies to all elements of our Mission.



    The Plan
    In the new era of the site, we will address the issues as follows:

    Issue: We do not have a clearly defined understanding of what needs to be done to achieve our goals.
    New Vision: The Liberty Blueprint will help drive the site into the new era.

    Issue: We can improve upon the way we organize and support projects.
    New Vision: The site has developed what is being called the Mission Advancement Framework (MAF), which was recently introduced here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ite-initiative!

    This will be used to help identify specific efforts to undertake for each of the seven steps above. It is also designed to help provide a win/win format that best leverages the site's assets.

    Issue: We do not have an effective means to aggregate community wisdom.
    New Vision: The first project of the MAF is already underway with the development of the Foundational Knowledgebase. The first goal of the Foundational Knowledgebase will ultimately cover the Liberty Blueprint elements of #1, #2, #3, #6a, #7a.

    A key outcome of this effort is to develop the tools to help people think and live better. This point is fundamental to our new vision.

    Issue: We can be more proactive to achieve goals without dependence on an election campaign or other influences.
    New Vision: Our internal efforts to develop the Foundational Knowledge Base are the start of proactive goals. We will engage in more as the members' demands and site resources allow. Many programs and concepts have already been developed.

    Issue: We can improve upon the means of identifying and communicating value for potential efforts.
    New Vision: The MAF is designed to help resolve these issues for general purpose projects. For electoral efforts, our newly enhanced Candidate Evaluation system will help us identify value for support.

    Issue: We can be more proactive in our outreach, as a site.
    New Vision: The site will not sit dormant in a corner of the internet; we will extend effort to better promote it in very specific ways for very specific purposes.

    Issue: We can improve the level of discourse of the site.
    New Vision: We have recently overhauled our Community Guidelines with a focus on improving the level of discourse. We have started to strongly enforce them and will continue to do so. With a new vision and a new purpose, we have new reason to seek improvements.

    Issue: We can better utilize our forum assets.
    New Vision: The site’s structure and forum layout will be refined to fit our new direction.

    Issue: We can improve the site's internal structures and presentation.
    New Vision: The site has recently been overhauled. The default look and now offers additional new color schemes. We have added a handful of new features that improve the user experience, such as profanity filtering and user quote notifications. Numerous additional changes will be forthcoming, including a branding update, per the section below.



    Branding Change
    In support of the new era and to illustrate our objective of providing educational guides, the site’s secondary branding of “Liberty Forest” will soon be replaced with a new brand, “The Guide Point”. As part of this we have secured the domain name theguidepoint.com. The branding change will also help support an expanded scope of tactical efforts that we will use to support our Mission.



    Brand Development
    As The Guide Point name on its own does not convey specific values or Mission elements, it will often be used in conjunction with a tagline and some keywords that drive home what we are about. We will have a collection of taglines which include “A clear path in an unclear world.”, “The epicenter of free thought.” and “The greatest assembly of free and independent thinkers the world has ever seen.” are some current considerations.

    The keywords will be designed to reflect our community values, what we offer and our Mission. Keywords will generally be used in sets. We may have a collection of keyword sets that we can use for different purposes. One example is “Insight * Success * Wisdom *Fellowship * Peace * Liberty * Justice * Honest Markets”. In some cases, keywords will be combined with our primary branding to help illustrating points, such as “Liberty Guide Point” and the like.



    State of the Movement; Where do we go from here? (Personal commentary - skippable)
    “The movement is dead.”; “People are burned out.”; “We’ve tried, we’ve failed.”; “We haven’t accomplished much.” This is some of the defeatism that is being passed around the liberty movement, and while I can sympathize to a degree, it’s not going to change our situation; we need a better plan.

    So what can we really do? What should we do? What have we done wrong? There is no one person who can answer that, but I will offer my viewpoint.

    One key to our success, and how we should look at focusing our efforts, is to work to control the things that we can control. We cannot control how people vote, we cannot dictate commands to the media, we cannot control what the Federal Reserve does, so we shouldn’t lose hope when efforts to do so fail. There are some things that we can control, and to take a broad view, I see the following as a blueprint to thrive:

    • Work to have a happy, successful and fulling life, regardless of the geopolitical situation. A positive life outcome is not only paramount in its own regard, it is also necessary for you to be a strong contributor toward our Mission.
    • Prepare for hard times. With massive national debt, world conflict and social strife on the rise, the long-term outlook doesn’t seem favorable. We can’t control what is to come, but we can be prepared for what may.
    • Contribute to our movement as you can.

    So what makes sense to do as a movement? Too many efforts to try to control what we can’t control are contributing to burn-out, as they aren’t working. While there are certainly many side benefits to supporting failed campaigns, focusing more efforts on building what we can build should not be undervalued. For example, in building the Foundational Knowledgebase, every piece of effort is designed to have a permanent, lasting effect. Liberty can be rebuilt piece by piece, brick by brick. Working on efforts we can’t fully control is akin to building a brick house on sand without using mortar -- we can make progress, but we cannot count on success.

    Right now, I say we need to focus on our building techniques and find the right place to build before we try to build another house. In this way, we can contribute to efforts we know will have lasting value, which overcomes the defeatism.

    This is what I personally will be doing, I’ll be building the Foundational Knowledgebase, brick by brick, for as long as it takes. I am dedicated to it as my efforts will have lasting value and every day's effort can be built upon. It can make a different once it achieves critical mass.



    How You Can Help - Support Opportunities
    If you are serious about your concerns for the future, if you are serious about our Mission, if you like what you see with our new vision, you will want to help be a part of the solution.

    There are numerous open ended opportunities to help, including:

    • The refinement of the Mission Advancement Framework, defined here:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ment-Framework

    • The development of the Foundational Knowledgebase. For more information, see this list of threads:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/tags.ph...+Knowledgebase

    • There is still work to be done to develop optimal styling, logos and imaging around the new branding. Anyone who is skilled in the arts of marketing, brand development, Photoshop or the like and interested in helping us advance the site and our Mission, please PM.

    • Donations provide fuel for our engines, the more we get the more we can accomplish. Our contribute page provides membership / donation links:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/content...014-Contribute

    If you have ideas for additional projects, let’s talk.



    A New Era; A New Drive
    Our shift into a new era is part of a long-term strategic move that has been in the works for quite some time. The changes give us a fundamental new purpose. They help solidify a direction, give reason for people to join in and new energy for the site. If you’ve been paying attention, you’ll have noticed the changes to the site that have already been made.



    Our Site: A Holistic View
    As a site, we now have or are working toward:

    • A well defined Mission.
    • A knowledge base that will fully characterize what we stand for to all..
    • A blueprint of how to achieve our Mission.
    • A framework (MAF) to support projects within the blueprint.
    • A knowledge base to characterize the best tactics to use for our projects.
    • A defined set of Community Values.
    • A defined set of Community Guidelines.
    • A formal system to evaluate and grade candidates and public officials.
    • A public forum to discuss current events, political viewpoints, and how to find success and to organize efforts.

    Even with all of this, there are still some key pieces missing. Perhaps you can identify them.



    Why the Chosen Name
    There are many factors that go into selecting a brand or website name. As plans to move the site into a new era started to come together, it was acknowledged that fresh secondary branding was needed. Significant effort went into considering this branding. What would the perfect pro-liberty website be called? What was available?

    To be certain, no branding is going to be perfect, nothing is going to make everyone happy, but we are very pleased with the selected branding, which satisfies all of our requirements, including:
    • Reflects the added direction that the site is moving to, a site to help people think and live better.
    • Reflect our leadership in thought and philosophy.
    • Reasonably professional (compared to theblaze.com and others)
    • Original, doesn’t conflict with others.
    • Open ended branding, not tied to just one point or thing.
    • Doesn’t alienate members based on a philosophical viewpoint (we’re not "red", “conservative” or "right").
    • Not political sounding.
    • Doesn’t use the word “liberty” – which doesn’t have broad appeal and is too specific.
    • It’s a .com
    • Wasn’t expensive.
    • Is easy to say and rolls off the tongue well.
    • Is easy to remember and spell with no ambiguity in the domain name. There are no questions if it is with an “s”, etc.
    • No serious trademark issues.

    I understand it generally takes some time to acclimate to a name, and that change won’t resonate with everyone. We are still very excited about the change, hopeful that it appeals to our members and that they can see its value in moving our Mission forward in a new era.
    This site has a specific purpose defined in our Mission Statement.

    Members must read and follow our Community Guidelines.

    I strive to respond to all queries; please excuse late and out-of-sequence responses.



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2

    Default

    Why the Chosen Name
    There are many factors that go into selecting a brand or website name. As plans to move the site into a new era started to come together, it was acknowledged that fresh secondary branding was needed. Significant effort went into considering this branding. What would the perfect pro-liberty website be called? What was available?

    To be certain, no branding is going to be perfect, nothing is going to make everyone happy, but we are very pleased with the selected branding, which satisfies all of our requirements, including:
    • Reflects the added direction that the site is moving to, a site to help people think and live better.
    • Reflect our leadership in thought and philosophy.
    • Reasonably professional (compared to theblaze.com and others)
    • Original, doesn’t conflict with others.
    • Open ended branding, not tied to just one point or thing.
    • Doesn’t alienate members based on a philosophical viewpoint (we’re not "red", “conservative” or "right").
    • Not political sounding.
    • Doesn’t use the word “liberty” – which doesn’t have broad appeal and is too specific.
    • It’s a .com
    • Wasn’t expensive.
    • Is easy to say and rolls off the tongue well.
    • Is easy to remember and spell with no ambiguity in the domain name. There are no questions if it is with an “s”, etc.
    • No serious trademark issues.
    Did the name change?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.

  4. #3

    Default

    I don't know man.....

    From here it doesn't seem broken, hence no need to fix it.

  5. #4
    Staff - Admin
    Houston, TX
    Bryan's Avatar


    Blog Entries
    3
    Posts
    8,284
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Did the name change?
    Branding Change
    In support of the new era and to illustrate our objective of providing educational guides, the site’s secondary branding of “Liberty Forest” will soon be replaced with a new brand, “The Guide Point”. As part of this we have secured the domain name theguidepoint.com. The branding change will also help support an expanded scope of tactical efforts that we will use to support our Mission.
    This site has a specific purpose defined in our Mission Statement.

    Members must read and follow our Community Guidelines.

    I strive to respond to all queries; please excuse late and out-of-sequence responses.

  6. #5
    Staff - Admin
    Houston, TX
    Bryan's Avatar


    Blog Entries
    3
    Posts
    8,284
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    I don't know man.....

    From here it doesn't seem broken, hence no need to fix it.
    The vision is more that things can be made better.
    This site has a specific purpose defined in our Mission Statement.

    Members must read and follow our Community Guidelines.

    I strive to respond to all queries; please excuse late and out-of-sequence responses.

  7. #6

    Default

    Good luck Bryan! Herding cats is a mighty task, and you're a brave man for stepping up to the plate.

    One question - who is "we?"
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  8. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan View Post
    The vision is more that things can be made better.
    I've seen "improvements" to many things over the years..............

    Please go slow this is a pretty good group of people.

  9. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan View Post
    Branding Change
    In support of the new era and to illustrate our objective of providing educational guides, the site’s secondary branding of “Liberty Forest” will soon be replaced with a new brand, “The Guide Point”. As part of this we have secured the domain name theguidepoint.com. The branding change will also help support an expanded scope of tactical efforts that we will use to support our Mission.
    Ah, sounds nice. Kind of reminds me of one of those new wave churches. We're not a cult are we?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.

  10. #9
    Staff - Admin
    Houston, TX
    Bryan's Avatar


    Blog Entries
    3
    Posts
    8,284
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    One question - who is "we?"
    Depends on context. In some cases it's the site membership, others it's the liberty movement in others it's the staff and advisors.


    Good luck Bryan! Herding cats is a mighty task, and you're a brave man for stepping up to the plate.
    To be clear on a point, the extent to which we (staff) will herd cats will be having site members follow the Community Guidelines. After that, any efforts to help on a site supported Mission advancing project is entirely up to the individual.
    This site has a specific purpose defined in our Mission Statement.

    Members must read and follow our Community Guidelines.

    I strive to respond to all queries; please excuse late and out-of-sequence responses.

  11. #10
    Staff - Admin
    Houston, TX
    Bryan's Avatar


    Blog Entries
    3
    Posts
    8,284
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Please go slow this is a pretty good group of people.
    It is a very good group - and with a new vision I think we can continue to attract more to the party. We certainly don't have critical mass to achieve our Mission. Some things have been needed to make this happen, some efforts to that end have started with the Community Guidelines update.

    Thanks.
    This site has a specific purpose defined in our Mission Statement.

    Members must read and follow our Community Guidelines.

    I strive to respond to all queries; please excuse late and out-of-sequence responses.

  12. #11
    Staff - Admin
    Houston, TX
    Bryan's Avatar


    Blog Entries
    3
    Posts
    8,284
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Ah, sounds nice.
    Thanks.

    Kind of reminds me of one of those new wave churches. We're not a cult are we?
    I hope not!
    This site has a specific purpose defined in our Mission Statement.

    Members must read and follow our Community Guidelines.

    I strive to respond to all queries; please excuse late and out-of-sequence responses.

  13. #12

    Default

    I'd like to see a library of sorts. A digital archive for specific history and language/terminology and whatnot. A link to an area specific to research only. For instance, if I want to research and learn about a Consitutional Convention, I don't want to have to become annoyed and distracted by some Anarchist complaining about how he wants to buck the system and that I should, too. Of course, then, everyone else chimes in. Sometimes there needs to be areas that are off limits to arbitrary commentary/debate/discussion. Areas just for research and only for research. Nothing else.

    Also, are you staying with the current structure? Meaning a public forum. Forums are a dying medium, really. Not particularly effective aside from arguing back and forth in my view. Forums stimulate division. And they have devolved into social networking platforms more than anything. That's just me talking, though. Others certainly will disagree.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 04-23-2016 at 09:57 AM.

  14. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Good luck Bryan! Herding cats is a mighty task, and you're a brave man for stepping up to the plate.

    One question - who is "we?"
    look around

    there are less than 100 of us that regularly contribute here

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  15. #14
    Staff - Admin
    Houston, TX
    Bryan's Avatar


    Blog Entries
    3
    Posts
    8,284
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Michael View Post
    I'd like to se a library of sorts. A digital archive for specific history and languange/terminology and whatnot. A link to an area specific to research only.
    Sounds like a good concept. Maybe start a new thread with some more detail.


    Also, are you staying with the current structure? Meaning a public forum. Forums are a dying medium, really. Not particularly effective aside from arguing back and forth in my view. That's just me talking, though. Othetrs certainly will disagree.
    The Foundational Knowledgebase that is being developed is being built with a wiki platform, it could not be effectively done on a forum. Forums (and social media in general) are effective for arguing and sharing real-time information. Our tag system will help bridge the gap with past content but that's not enough. From my analysis, forums are dying only so much as the bar to start, build and maintain an effective forum has been greatly raised over the past 7 years. Well maintained forums are still thriving.
    This site has a specific purpose defined in our Mission Statement.

    Members must read and follow our Community Guidelines.

    I strive to respond to all queries; please excuse late and out-of-sequence responses.

  16. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan View Post
    Sounds like a good concept. Maybe start a new thread with some more detail.

    Yeah, maybe.



    The Foundational Knowledgebase that is being developed is being built with a wiki platform, it could not be effectively done on a forum. Forums (and social media in general) are effective for arguing and sharing real-time information. Our tag system will help bridge the gap with past content but that's not enough. From my analysis, forums are dying only so much as the bar to start, build and maintain an effective forum has been greatly raised over the past 7 years. Well maintained forums are still thriving.
    I've spent some time reading through those threads. The Foundational Knowledgebase and subsequent discussion that evolved from it. It's headache inducing. Which is okay, I suppose. Is what it is. There is a lot to think about and put together there. Time consuming thought, too.

    I'll be up front and honest with you, though, we differ in approach to such things. You tend to ask for input and ideas. I don't. At least not on major things like this. I think too much input fragments and create needless obstacles. This is a very diverse group. As you likely know, libertarian atmospheres tend to be filled with different (even opposing) factions of people. Many with different visions of scope. It's freaking chaos, man.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 04-23-2016 at 10:15 AM.

  17. #16
    Staff - Admin
    Houston, TX
    Bryan's Avatar


    Blog Entries
    3
    Posts
    8,284
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    look around

    there are less than 100 of us that regularly contribute here
    The site certainly thrived around Ron Paul's 2008, 2012 campaigns. There was hope that it would again with Rand Paul's 2016 run. At this point, we need a better plan.
    This site has a specific purpose defined in our Mission Statement.

    Members must read and follow our Community Guidelines.

    I strive to respond to all queries; please excuse late and out-of-sequence responses.

  18. #17

    Default

    • Doesn’t use the word “liberty” – which doesn’t have broad appeal and is too specific.
    Personally I like it as it is the entire reason for this movement. Personal Liberty.

    Just curious I may not have understood this correctly, but are you planning to take Ron Paul out of the title name?

  19. #18
    Staff - Admin
    Houston, TX
    Bryan's Avatar


    Blog Entries
    3
    Posts
    8,284
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Michael View Post
    I've spent some time reading through those threads. The Foundational Knowledgebase and subsequent discussion that evolved from it. It's headache inducing. Which is okay, I suppose. Is what it is. There is a lot to think about and put together there. Time consuming thought, too.
    A lot of the original material was just setting up the framework to work within. Some of the newer discussion are more concrete. It is a massive project, but it's one that has great value and is something that can be 100% controlled. The effort will have long term payback, vs many efforts that have a net positive of near zero.


    I'll be up front and honest with you,
    Good, that's what I always want.

    though, we differ in approach to such things.
    That's OK. If we did everything the same, I'd be more worried.


    You tend to ask for input and ideas. I don't. at least not on major things. I think too much input fragments and create needless obstacles. This is a very diverse group. As you likelty know, libertarian atmospheres tend to be filled with different (even opposing) factions of people. Many with different visions of scope. It's freaking chaos, man.
    I do ask for input and ideas, and I do so because things are chaos, and I don't have all the knowledge and wisdom to inherently know what the best path forward is. In the process of getting all of the input and ideas, there certainly will be different and opposing views, and with different scope -- all as you say.

    It's what happens next that is important; I take all of that input, process it, formulate questions, hash out ideas and then I retreat to think about the situation. I then work to find the deep simplicity of a way forward and package it up. A way forward then gets presented, then fine-tuned, and we're on our way. This process doesn't work well for real-time decision making, such as driving a car but it general works well for the site. Thanks!
    This site has a specific purpose defined in our Mission Statement.

    Members must read and follow our Community Guidelines.

    I strive to respond to all queries; please excuse late and out-of-sequence responses.

  20. #19
    Staff - Admin
    Houston, TX
    Bryan's Avatar


    Blog Entries
    3
    Posts
    8,284
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by younglibertarian View Post
    Personally I like it as it is the entire reason for this movement. Personal Liberty.
    Personal liberty is unquestionable the cornerstone of everything, and certainly the biggest issues we face. I have argued (and not seen a strong counter argument) that the correct Mission also includes "honest markets" and "justice". These are constructs that can not be derived from liberty only. Some could even use a liberty only argument to say that they have the liberty to lie to you about something that they are selling to you. So our site Mission includes the support of liberty, justice and honest markets.

    I have further argued that there are important elements that are needed to achieve and sustain liberty (and justice / honest markets), in part that we need strong people, families and communities - these things are important, and we support them in part with our Lifestyle forum section. These points also stand alone on their own merit, and aren't just about liberty.

    So that's why I argue it's too specific. The cornerstone, yes, but still too specific.


    Just curious I may not have understood this correctly, but are you planning to take Ron Paul out of the title name?
    No. If that happens in the future remains to be seen.

    Thanks!
    This site has a specific purpose defined in our Mission Statement.

    Members must read and follow our Community Guidelines.

    I strive to respond to all queries; please excuse late and out-of-sequence responses.

  21. #20

    Default

    Wouldn't the issue of justice fly in the face of the TOS?

    Maybe not in every instance but frequently.........

  22. #21

    Default

    Some could even use a liberty only argument to say that they have the liberty to lie to you about something that they are selling to you. So our site Mission includes the support of liberty, justice and honest markets.
    I see one major flaw in this, and that is the honesty part.

    Technically in a free market which we strive for, businesses have the freedom to advertise their products as they please, even if it is incorrect. This results in the failure of the business due to bad testimonies and track record. The free market adjusts itself.

    For example I can sell you a used car that I know is about to have a transmission failure and you can decide to purchase it. Now is that morally right? No but technically speaking it is allowed. This is both our faults to some extent. On your part it would be a lack of knowledge. The positive is that you can tell others and ask for restitution. If I don't give you a refund or change my business practices, my dealership will go under.

    So free markets is a better way to put that rather then honest ones.

    Just a thought.

  23. #22
    Staff - Admin
    Houston, TX
    Bryan's Avatar


    Blog Entries
    3
    Posts
    8,284
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Wouldn't the issue of justice fly in the face of the TOS?

    Maybe not in every instance but frequently.........
    If I'm following your logic, I would say no, it doesn't have to.

    Justice can be served by putting people on trial for their crimes. The problem is you need a critical mass to support that, but you likewise need a critical mass to do anything on such a scale. So to me, the question becomes, how do we build a critical mass of people?
    This site has a specific purpose defined in our Mission Statement.

    Members must read and follow our Community Guidelines.

    I strive to respond to all queries; please excuse late and out-of-sequence responses.

  24. #23
    Staff - Admin
    Houston, TX
    Bryan's Avatar


    Blog Entries
    3
    Posts
    8,284
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by younglibertarian View Post
    I see one major flaw in this, and that is the honesty part.

    Technically in a free market which we strive for, businesses have the freedom to advertise their products as they please, even if it is incorrect. This results in the failure of the business due to bad testimonies and track record. The free market adjusts itself.

    For example I can sell you a used car that I know is about to have a transmission failure and you can decide to purchase it. Now is that morally right? No but technically speaking it is allowed. This is both our faults to some extent. On your part it would be a lack of knowledge. The positive is that you can tell others and ask for restitution. If I don't give you a refund or change my business practices, my dealership will go under.

    So free markets is a better way to put that rather then honest ones.

    Just a thought.
    I started a new thread on this:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...honest-markets
    This site has a specific purpose defined in our Mission Statement.

    Members must read and follow our Community Guidelines.

    I strive to respond to all queries; please excuse late and out-of-sequence responses.

  25. #24

    Default

    Would it make everything really simple to just adopt the official Libertarian Party platform? https://www.lp.org/platform

  26. #25

    Default

    I don't think the Libertarian platform would do because we do not have enough citizens who self-govern. Until everyone agrees to be self-governing with consensus, there cannot be a generally peaceful society. There will always be those who disagree, and it is easier to make a rule or a law than to reform and reshape a character. Our society seems to have lost the will to do what is right. The rights of all individuals are important. Until that fact is understood by all, and all live according to that standard, it is useless to say everyone can do whatever they want. The louder and more powerful will continue to violate the rights of others. The only thing that changes is who holds the power.
    "There are two freedoms - the false, where a man is free to do what he likes; the true, where he is free to do what he ought."~~Charles Kingsley

  27. #26

    Default

    Just make this the Bryan for President 2020 forum

  28. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    I don't know man.....

    From here it doesn't seem broken, hence no need to fix it.
    here here.. one of my first thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Ah, sounds nice. Kind of reminds me of one of those new wave churches. We're not a cult are we?
    at least I'm not alone seeing that name and thinking .. outside the box church
    Disclaimer: any post made after midnight and before 8AM is made before the coffee dip stick has come up to optomim level - expect some level of silliness,

    The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are out numbered by those who vote for a living !!!!!!!

  29. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan View Post
    Branding Change
    In support of the new era and to illustrate our objective of providing educational guides, the site’s secondary branding of “Liberty Forest” will soon be replaced with a new brand, “The Guide Point”. As part of this we have secured the domain name theguidepoint.com. The branding change will also help support an expanded scope of tactical efforts that we will use to support our Mission.

    I like your approach to this. and I think that you have correctly identified the "malfunction" of the "Liberty" movement. we have no "brand".

    in today's world, we hear a LOT of wailing and gnashing of teeth over the word "Label" that a "brand" can be considered a "Label"
    I will hold as self evident.

    when I first heard this term, "I don't like the use of, or to use, "Labels". it caused a fight. my immediate response was, "WTF are you talking about? what the hell does that even mean?"
    this terminology is still quite popular today. and here we are 9 years later, still laboring under this precept.
    so, what is a "Label"?

    in my line of work, if you tell me, "my heat is not working" that is not enough information. I am going to ask you to "Label" your equipment for me.
    is it a heat pump or a gas furnace? (is it a coal stoker? ) if the person cannot answer this query.. (and frequently they cannot.) this puts me in an awkward position... do I press the issue?

    I submit that a "Label" is a classification sir. a category, a genre with distinctive identifying characteristics.

    we cannot be a "guide point" if we do not have a Point sir. I submit that the first order of business is to chose a classification for ourselves.

    myself, I chose "HVACTech" as my "label" long ago. I took a "position". Ron Paul himself let us down in this manner. HIS position is vague.
    (or we would NOT be having this conversation)
    consider,
    Ron Paul, "I am a champion of the Constitution" would ANY of us.. have supported him... if we thought that what he was talking about... was what we have today?
    (stupid question, eh?)

    I submit that what lit the fire for the R3volution, was Ron Paul's undying dedication and loyalty to the "original Intent", that this can ONLY be found in the 1791 version. and that the "guide point" is thus synonymous with Original Intent.

    peace.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  30. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    I don't think the Libertarian platform would do because we do not have enough citizens who self-govern. Until everyone agrees to be self-governing with consensus, there cannot be a generally peaceful society. There will always be those who disagree, and it is easier to make a rule or a law than to reform and reshape a character. Our society seems to have lost the will to do what is right. The rights of all individuals are important. Until that fact is understood by all, and all live according to that standard, it is useless to say everyone can do whatever they want. The louder and more powerful will continue to violate the rights of others. The only thing that changes is who holds the power.
    that was well said Love. and is emblematic of the issues that I have with the tough-guy abstract anarchists.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  31. #30

    Default

    Seriously though, I'm just thinking shop around for any well established platform. Maybe adopt Ron Paul or Rand Paul's platform. Or Jessie Ventura or even John McAfee. Or Thomas Massie.

    Just figure many other people in the political arena have already done the hard job of studying up on this and having this kind of discussion. If different ways, they have all done this already. If you find an already established platform everyone generally agrees on, you've saved yourself a ton of work and forum debate.

    I would also suggest this is actually one of the strengths of other political groups. They band together and just support their candidate and spend most of their time arguing against the opposition instead of internally.

    So, I would suggest one question to be asked is if people here can be united like this or if people here are to individualist and interested in internal debate. If the latter is the case, maybe run with that and become a political debate forum.

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast





Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •