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Thread: A new site vision; a new era

  1. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    I see how this is a problem for some - many even - but consider what it is many of us are attempting to do here. We are trying to find a path toward the reestablishment of human freedom on a planet that has become a huge prison. The enormity of this task, were it realized in its fullness, would likely drive people into their living rooms to break out the beer and cocaine and just say "$#@! it".

    This regression to freedom, which was man's original natural state, is so radical that we cannot hope to accomplish it in any meaningful way without first establishing and understanding the philosophical basis for such a quantum shift in the way people live. We are here essentially reinventing that basis, and doing so (at least in my case) with the understanding that words matter and are devilishly tricky. In order to assemble a clear, complete, and correct philosophical "platform" upon which to base one's material efforts, precision becomes paramount and that usually requires a lot of words in order that all bases are covered sufficiently that those who play word games are put before the tallest and most unscalable barriers imaginable. Without precision in every detail covering the basic structural elements of a philosophy for freedom, especially in a world of carpet-bagger filth, the door is left ajar for those very people to ply their deceit. Just look at the hopelessly weak Constitution. It's very structure all but guaranteed the outcome to which we have been treated. It may be "small and elegant", but it is also hopelessly vague in critical areas such that even to this day "scholars" argue the precise meanings of this passage or that.

    Granted, there is only so much the written word can accomplish, the rest being up to us. But if we are to take up the reins we dropped so long ago, we must understand what it means to be a governor, and that means understanding well the basic philosophical underpinnings of the nation. Without that, there is far less to stop yet another generation of filthy hippies and other useful idiot stooges to come and begin sowing the seeds of doubt in the minds of strong people. We have gone so wrong in so many ways that it makes my head hurt when the torrent-vision overwhelms my waking mind with its reality.

    We do need to be "government", even if we are an anarchy... especially so. We need the attitude of a governor of ourselves, as well as that of sentinel and guardian of the rights of all men. But we also must have understanding of that which we are defending, and that requires fools such as myself get all wordy about things, such that all bases are covered and precise. I wish it were otherwise - I would have to type a whole lot less - but alas, I see no way around it, save to leave too much unspecified with insufficient clarity and detail so that evil men would be able to bend words to false meanings.

    Does that make sense? Have I been too wordy, even here? Seriously.

    No, I understand your points clearly and perfectly. Thanks for following up on what I'd mentioned. And I do agree with you in large part there. It is vague, for sure. And its shortcomings have certainly been used against Individual liberty more so than in its favor. And some warned of the outcome upon our framing. So, yeah. That's where we are. Is what it is, I suppose. Of course, the nature of man and in terms with freedom is complex. What's your view on that, osan? Specifically that. Where does it come from? Man's natural state of freedom, that is. We live in a very secular society or culture. A secular civilization even. Very worldly.

    Where, in your view, does freedom come from, osan? That's a good of a place to start as any. What is man's natural state? I'd like to better understand your view of what surmises a truly "natural citizen".
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 04-27-2016 at 09:52 PM.

    Carpe Diem!



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  3. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Michael View Post
    Of course, the nature of man and in terms with feedom is complex.
    Actually, I see it as eminently and elegantly simple. The complexities arise as part and parcel of the nature, but of its perversion.

    The reason things get complicated is because some people want that to which they are not entitled. "I want my interstate highways, and by GOD I will have them, dammit!" When that is one of your positions, complexity has been artificially injected into the broader issues of free living because interstates do no build themselves. They require great resources and if you are going to have them built, those resources do not simply fall from Jed Clampett's butt, ready to assemble themselves into ready-made highways. If the resources are not available for the free taking, then they must be acquired from... well, YOU. Now add the presumed fact that John Dough has no interest in superhighways. All righteousness would then say "leave Mr. Dough alone". But that leads to shortfalls, which leads to no highways, and by GOD you will have them. That leads irrevocably to force and robbery, which are of course complexities in that they are conceptually disguised and called "taxation" and justified as "one's fair share". I now want to spit obscenities for where all this leads my mind.

    And so it goes, issue upon issue arises where people want that to which they have no ability to obtain on their own or even in voluntary cooperation with others. But by GOD they will have them, and so they confound and pervert the good with the evil that is their avarice and the will to engage in whatever steps are deemed necessary to get what they want. Everyone knows this is evil, which is precisely why they contort words, turning murder into love-making. It is classic 1984 tactics that have been used for thousands of years since Empire arose out of the lowest and most rank muck of the mind of someone who by all rights should have been eaten by a wild predator when still a child for the sake of humanity's better fate.

    F.A.I.L. has gotten the better of us, and has become so deeply normalized that most people are now incapable of seeing it in their own most basic perceptive assumptions. They don't see taxation as robbery, because the tired and clapped-out "fair share" and "roads" assumptions are so deeply entrenched in their psyches that they are incapable of realizing that these are not absolute, universal truths applicable in even the farthest observable galaxies. Therefore, it is a literal impossibility for such people to see beyond the superficial conflicts of interest between individuals on such matter, which leads to "complexity" in their minds. They cannot - WILL not - accept an alternative viewpoint on what for them are basic truths of the universe, and are thereby hamstrung by the prison their own minds have erected for them and the world becomes complex.

    What's your view on that, osan? Specifically that. Where does it come from? Man's natural state of freedom, that is.

    We live in a very secular society or culture. A secular civilization even. Very worldly.

    Where, in your view, does freedom come from, osan? That's a good of a place to start as any. What is man's natural state? I'd like to better understand your view of what surmises a truly "natural citizen".
    Try this on for starters: What is "Freedom"?

    Then this: Degrees of Freedom

    Somewhat tangential, but still relevant: A Few More Reasons Why Humanity's State Of Inheren...

    And finally, this - a work still in progress, methinks: The Canon of Proper Human Relations

    When one's eyes fix upon the correct context and assumption, the inherent nature of mens' freedom becomes obvious such that it shouts itself at you. One of the problems for so many people such that they confuse freedom with horror and slavery with freedom, is that true and proper human freedom demands things of the individual that a vast plurality of humanity is no longer willing to provide.

    Freedom provides itself as a benefit - something most people appear to want. In return, it demands of the individual both accountability and courage - something about three people on the planet are willing to give in return. If you are to be free, you must have the spheres to assume the risks of being free. Few are willing to do this in the fullest measure. They may be willing to ski off an 80' high cornice, but they are not willing to risk allowing their fellows to carry firearms. True freedom demands both, and much more, of the individual. The same man who will ski off that cornice, rather than accepting his fate when his impact on the snow below sets off a huge avalanche, demands others risk their lives bailing his sorry hide out of the mess he's gotten himself into. The thrill of extreme skiiing was all the rage for him until he found himself buried under 9 feet of snow. All of a sudden he wants mommy to come make the booboo all better. This is not a free man. This is a cowering, whiny, self-important, entitled little poseur whose tune changes from his strong, if hollow, C-Major Freedom March to a cacophonous, ear-splitting symphony of diminished fourths (malum in musica).

    IOW, people want all the benefits of freedom without having to pay any of the costs of having it. They are unaccepting of the universal reality that there ain't no such thing as a free lunch (TANSTAAFL). They simply reject it out of hand in a manner tightly analogous to a situation where they stand on a heavy rail line, denying the 125-car freight train that is bearing down on them at 70 miles per hour, now only 1/4 of a mile distant saying, "it will not harm me, I shall not move". Okee dokee.

    Proper human freedom is terrifying to the Meaner. He relabels it as "insanity", usually plastering "Anarchy" on the notion. As a MereCog, he is heavily vested in his flavor of pretty-slavery/pretty-tyranny. He wants wants wants, but refuses to pay pay pay. Therefore, he steals steals, steals through the agency of his well-armed tax-goons and sleeps well at night because he has justified it all in his mind by any number of phony baloney pretexts including the aforementioned "fair share" doctrine. Freedom means nothing to such men, wanting only to get what they can at the lowest possible cost (zero, ideally) to themselves. It's that sweet-spot for which they strive because to go any further is usually either unfeasible or too costly. So they settle for their miserable little brass-washed cages, lying to themselves that they are made actually of gold.

    This is the reality to which humanity has been so thoroughly trained. The prospect of breaking them of this addiction to corruption in favor of Jefferson's "animating contest" are just this side of zero. And that is why I am so doubtful that free status for even meager populations will be unattainable without very serious bloodshed; we are talking about thrusting huge masses of people of the most timid and corrupt character into an environment so depthlessly terrifying to them that they will sell what remains of their souls to the devil in a heartbeat in return for his lie that everything will remain the same. Such people would see you and your children killed in ways that would leave even the most demented ISIS "warrior" on his side, quaking and vomiting in shock and disgust, before allowing themselves to be dragged into the horror of actual freedom. There is NO POSSIBLE WAY that at least 150 million Americans would allow it. They would whine like banshees for men with guns to save them from what for them is a fate far worse than death. And those men would come to their aid and the rest of us would be faced with a very real and immediate choice to fight to the death or lay down and become nothing worthy of so much as contempt.

    That is the barrier that we here face, and it is truly daunting.
    Last edited by osan; 04-28-2016 at 11:08 AM.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

  4. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    OK, that's pretty good, but I must reiterate a point - not to be downer, but
    Pointing out reality isn't a downer.


    How does one compete with the likes of a Sanders or a Clinton who preach free unicorn-poo for everyone while promising death to the wealthy? They are reinforcing the base instincts that draw them inexorably in the direction of "free $#@!", playing upon envy, while redirecting and projecting what should be shame for one's own miserable inadequacies and translating it into blind, red-raging hatred. The question of competition is the one that needs to be answered - not how to compete, initially, but rather whether you can. I am no longer certain it is possible. Be that the case, any attempts to win such people to your cause is likely to prove fruitless, leaving you to ask whether there are enough "superior" men remaining such that one could realistically make an attempt to keep this vessel we call "America" afloat.
    All IMO... for some people, you can't complete. Most others aren't going to turn on a dime, it can nominally take around six months or more for someone to go from getting a seed of liberty and turning it into a new world outlook. Within that six months there is a lot of person reflection, withdraw from past ties, leaning new things and then starting to articulate new views. One key is to recognize when you are just planning seeds that you need to accept that you are doing just that, don't expect the quick change. Otherwise, there are a lot of do's and don'ts to this; another major topic. These things are doable for most people, and it's the people that are important, the vessel comes after that.



    The task is enormously difficult because you have damned near everything against you, including the majority who would see you burned alive as soon as tell you to screw off.

    Keep that in mind.
    While working towards it, I understand the scope of the problem, so it's in mind. The key however, is that it has to be planned for, and it's why we need better plans. The Liberty Blueprint is just the first layer of plans.
    This site has a specific purpose defined in our Mission Statement.

    Members must read and follow our Community Guidelines.

    I strive to respond to all queries; please excuse late and out-of-sequence responses.

  5. #94

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    The basic problem here and in the liberty movement generally is quite simple.

    Ron Paul is gone.

    Sometimes we don't want to talk about that, because it's an insolvable problem.

    It takes ~40 years to make a Ron Paul, and we won't have another for several decades, if ever.

    Ron drew in the general "anti-establishment" types.

    ...who are now for Trump or Bernie.

    Ron drew in the hardcore, purist libertarians.

    ...who are now, many of them, anti-political and apathetic.

    The former need libertarian education, the latter need inspiration.

    There's no obvious way to do this.

    Those of us who remain are the more pragmatic libertarians, but it turns out there just aren't that many of us.

    So that's the problem. As for solutions, I have no thoughts at the moment.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

  6. #95

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    Thing is, this isn't a "libertarian" movement. Liberty isn't owned by libertarians. The constant pronouncements on this forum by some individuals to the contrary is very off-putting to those who are not part of the "clan". Nor is it a cover for hating the country, the Constitution, our Founders, or for the unfettered illegal alien invasion of the U.S.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  7. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Thing is, this isn't a "libertarian" movement.
    You feel very strongly about that, how come ? It's just a word, it doesn't have a whole lot of meaning without a context. I'd argue that compared to all of the other people, our movement is a libertarian-ish movement.

    The constant pronouncements on this forum by some individuals to the contrary is very off-putting to those who are not part of the "clan".
    Promoting an authoritarian liar on a forum that's named after the most honest and least authoritarian politician ever is off-putting to some people as well.
    "I am a bird"

  8. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The basic problem here and in the liberty movement generally is quite simple.

    Ron Paul is gone.

    Sometimes we don't want to talk about that, because it's an insolvable problem.

    It takes ~40 years to make a Ron Paul, and we won't have another for several decades, if ever.

    Ron drew in the general "anti-establishment" types.

    ...who are now for Trump or Bernie.

    Ron drew in the hardcore, purist libertarians.

    ...who are now, many of them, anti-political and apathetic.

    The former need libertarian education, the latter need inspiration.

    There's no obvious way to do this.

    Those of us who remain are the more pragmatic libertarians, but it turns out there just aren't that many of us.

    So that's the problem. As for solutions, I have no thoughts at the moment.
    dude.. really.. choose some words more carefully
    how about *Ron Paul is done with politics*
    or
    *Ron Paul isn't on the ballot*
    he's not gone.. go on youtube.. you'll find him
    Disclaimer: any post made after midnight and before 8AM is made before the coffee dip stick has come up to optomim level - expect some level of silliness,

    The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are out numbered by those who vote for a living !!!!!!!

  9. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by opal View Post
    dude.. really.. choose some words more carefully
    how about *Ron Paul is done with politics*
    or
    *Ron Paul isn't on the ballot*
    he's not gone.. go on youtube.. you'll find him
    Of course

    He's gone in the sense that he's largely retired from public life, not that he's dropped off the face of the Earth.

    In any event, we've lost a major unifying force for the liberty movement.

    To be clear, I'm not really pessimistic about this. It's a problem, but not an insurmountable one.

    We haven't yet found the right post-Ron formula, but I'm confident that we will, sooner or later.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

  10. #99

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    While informational warfare is effective, it pretty much needs to be carried out through a presidential election. That is how you get publication and the like.

  11. #100

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    In reading this thread, I notice that in some of the better posts, the subject being discussed is being passively defined as "Human Freedom". I like this term, and hope you would consider it for a new name for the site. It cannot be attacked as political, cannot be attacked as arrogant: The Truth", or dare I say it, "Guide Point"; it is "big tent", and lends itself to practical forum topics such as "What is human freedom?" "Why is human freedom important?" etc.

    By the way, the fact that maybe 100 people "regularly contribute" is, I think irrelevant. There are many more of us here who have been around for a very long time, who read every day, but who do not often add more words simply for the sake of adding more words.
    War is in fact the true nurse of executive aggrandizement. - James Madison

  12. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unknownuser View Post
    Great idea! I hope it works out!

    However, I personally think the time for Liberty is past and we as a nation are far beyond repair. It was a good run guys but I think our time should now be spent trying to survive what's to come.
    Knowledge is the basis for survival. If that is your focus we could use your input in these sub-forums...

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/forumdi...Freedom-Living

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/forumdi...ty-amp-Defense

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/forumdi...amp-Well-Being (regarding health tips/remedies that would apply in a shtf scenario)

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/forumdi...-Data-Security ( staying out of the governments cross-hairs, etc.)
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  13. #102

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    This thread makes me smile reminds me of the early days and yet with new vision -- special thanks to Bryan for stimulating this conversation!

    I think the most important thing I could add is that it is the diversity within our midst that makes us different from all the rest of political fiefdom out there. It is the fact that we really work at having a real conversation on real topics. And most of the time we succeed in taking care of one another with a lot of wisdom and love. If the body kills it's wounded parts, it will die sooner instead of later. We need each other and it does matter how we treat one another. We need to know our heavenly Father and we need to know how the system operates. He will show us IF we ask and even try to follow His Way.

    I find that everyone in our midst is a truth seeker. That is a good thing, because the bible tells us that if we seek; we will find:

    Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: Matthew 7:7

    The Guide Point can be a part of that process that is IF we all work together to make it so!

    Blessings,
    Sandie
    Last edited by scrosnoe; 05-10-2016 at 10:46 AM. Reason: to correct name of group

  14. #103

  15. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Hm. Well, that's interesting irony there. I really would like to see more people with this view participate more here. We do have friends here who understand and place into practice this aspect of libertarian outreach. It goes hand in hand with liberty by its very nature. But our peace through religion platform has become counter-intuitive to these particular principles. A boxing ring of varying philosophy. To the point that we've lost some of these people here. Talented people. People whose contributions/ideas on direction are valuable in scope. There is more I want to say about this but I'll leave it alone for now.

    But I did bookmark your link, tod. I like sites like that. And liberty is certainly a lifestyle as much as it is a group of principles.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 05-15-2016 at 10:50 PM.

    Carpe Diem!

  16. #105

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    I have been coming here since 2008 to check the pulse of the movement. I don't post much but browse daily to see what like minded individuals think about current events. Don't change too much please!

  17. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsanford5 View Post
    I have been coming here since 2008 to check the pulse of the movement. I don't post much but browse daily to see what like minded individuals think about current events. Don't change too much please!
    Nine posts since 2008. Obviously, you feel strongly about this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.

  18. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Nine posts since 2008. Obviously, you feel strongly about this.
    It's entirely possible. I have a friend who lives in Colorado who joined this forum years ago and has only posted a few times. But he's very much a pro-liberty, Ron Paul / Libertarian guy.

  19. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzu View Post
    It's entirely possible. I have a friend who lives in Colorado who joined this forum years ago and has only posted a few times. But he's very much a pro-liberty, Ron Paul / Libertarian guy.
    I wasn't doubting his/her sincerity. I just found it amusing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.

  20. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    I wasn't doubting his/her sincerity. I just found it amusing.
    Okay. And I wasn't implying that you doubt the person, either; I was just commenting about my friend. BTW here is one of his posts -- and he's only made three posts since he joined in April of 2008 -- worth a look:

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post1393879

  21. #110

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    good luck brian search toward truth and loving wisdom

    the basics that the freemasons failed and the secret boys clubs

    we need a complete restart
    "It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history is shaped. Each time a person stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, those ripples build a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance." Robert Kennedy

    http://scully13.wordpress.com/about men of dark intentions

  22. #111

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    You want to know exactly what's wrong with the "movement" and what caused it's downfall, Bryan?

    Just listen to the strategic moron (Hans Herman Hoppe) in this video here originally posted by Conza88 in post #51. What he says in this minute and 17 second video pretty much sums up the problem (not that he addresses the problem, but that his attitude toward knowledge IS the problem):



    Rothbard addresses these do-nothing people in Ethics of Liberty Chapter 30:

    It might be thought that the libertarian, the person committed to the
    "natural system of liberty" (in Adam Smith's phrase), almost by definition
    holds the goal of liberty as his highest political end. But this is often not
    true; for many libertarians, the desire for self-expression, or for bearing
    witness to the truth of the excellence of liberty, frequently takes precedence
    over the goal of the triumph of liberty in the real world. Yet surely,
    as will be seen further below, the victory of liberty will never come to pass
    unless the goal of victory in the real world takes precedence over more
    esthetic and passive considerations.
    In other words, until the Bryan's of the world take precedence over the Hoppe's of the world, it's going to be a hard journey.
    Last edited by wizardwatson; 10-10-2017 at 09:13 PM.
    What now?

  23. #112

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    Can anyone part of site staff, or associated with this year+ old initiative comment on the status of this "new site vision"/initiative?

    Are there still plans to have new branding with The Guide Point? Any work being done on this front in general? Anyone still interested?

    I'm currently refining Bryan's ideas into a solid plan, and just wondering what overall level of activity is that I might not be seeing just as a forum member.

    I've read this thread through along with all Bryan's threads associated with Foundational Knowledgebase and the MAF.
    What now?

  24. #113

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    So yeah, bumpy bump 'n stuff. Still kinda wanna know if this is still a thing. (see post #112)

    What now?

  25. #114

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    It's not the Mod's/etc. job to create the content although they certainly can if they want.. what initiatives do you want to promote?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  26. #115

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    I'm gonna go through the OP line by line tomorrow when I have time. Thanks for the bump, wiz.

    First things first really should be definition. And not just definition of liberty.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 10-18-2017 at 12:29 AM.

    Carpe Diem!

  27. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's not the Mod's/etc. job to create the content although they certainly can if they want.. what initiatives do you want to promote?
    Well, I was just asking on the status of the new "The Guide Point" branding. If that was still a thing, and if there's any organizational initiatives still under consideration. I am working on something myself, have been for a little over a week, that is in the same spirit of what Bryan was getting at, only defines a solid process using the forum as a workspace.

    Should be done by the end of the weekend.

    But not asking "what is everyone doing" in general, but specifically with the "The Guide Point" branding. More like, is this active or abandoned. So non-answer kind of gives me a clue.
    What now?

  28. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    I'm gonna go through the OP line by line tomorrow when I have time. Thanks for the bump, wiz.

    First things first really should be definition. And not just definition of liberty.
    I should have my write up on Bryan's thing, together with a defined process, by the end of the weekend. Essentially, Bryan's idea for a "Wiki" is really just developing a process for consensus on a mission/platform/definition document. I'm essentially writing up a very simplified forum-based "wiki" workflow that doesn't require anything fancy, and is easy for everyone to understand.

    It will be like the Fisher Price version of Roberts Rules of Order, only implemented on a forum, with "meeting minutes" and reports via a Google Sheet that I've created, that does some basic reporting. That's the abstract.

    Won't go into details, since it will be a time waste since I'm only a few days out from showing the whole thing. Better to spend time finishing than responding to questions about "where I'm at." I've been working on it since Oct. 10th.
    Last edited by wizardwatson; 10-18-2017 at 09:57 AM.
    What now?

  29. #118

    Default

    I never started. It's kind of all in my head. Though, I've recently discovered the critical need for loyalty to that which we define and place into application (mission). Simply put, without definition, there can not be 1 - a mission, and 2 - loyalty to said mission.

    For example. As a store owner, I might support competition next door. And I might even invite my competition over to discuss how we may grow the market itself in synergy. But why would I invite my competition into my store if he's only going to walk down my aisles knocking my product off the shelves and switch all of the labels around? Why would I invite him into my store if I know that he and his employees go back to his store to discuss how they're going to wreck my store in the future just by way of the fact that I let them in? Or discuss how they're going to recruit my employees. Hm? Why?

    To expand on that single factor alone, a current guideline that we've established in support of our mission is that - Attempts to undermine the value of electoral politics or the legitimacy of the US constitution is in opposition of our mission.

    That said, we spend a great deal of time fighting people who signed up in agreement of this principle by contract yet systematically work against it (walk down my aisles knocking my product off the shelves and switch all of the labels around.) This is counterproductive and a burden.

    But there's so much more to say about other things, too, so there are points to be made specific line by line with regard to the OP.

    But definition is number 1. And, again, not just a functional definition of liberty. There needs to be a functional definition of a few isms as well as their value to mission.


    Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
    I should have my write up on Bryan's thing, together with a defined process, by the end of the weekend. Essentially, Bryan's idea for a "Wiki" is really just developing a process for consensus on a mission/platform/definition document. I'm essentially writing up a very simplified forum-based "wiki" workflow that doesn't require anything fancy, and is easy for everyone to understand.

    It will be like the Fisher Price version of Roberts Rules of Order, only implemented on a forum, with "meeting minutes" and reports via a Google Sheet that I've created, that does some basic reporting. That's the abstract.

    Won't go into details, since it will be a time waste since I'm only a few days out from showing the whole thing. Better to spend time finishing than responding to questions about "where I'm at." I've been working on it since Oct. 10th.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 10-18-2017 at 12:41 PM.

    Carpe Diem!

  30. #119

    Default

    Shouldn't we take a poll about this?
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.
    9. Donít use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

  31. #120

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    To expand on that single factor alone, a current guideline that we've established is in support of our mission is that - Attempts to undermine the value of electoral politics or the legitimacy of the US constitution is in opposition of our mission.
    "More people are discovering that the system is all rigged, and that voting is just pacification for the voters and it really doesn’t count.” - Ron Paul

    "Our Constitution, which was intended to limit government power and abuse, has failed. The Founders warned that a free society depends on a virtuous and moral people. The current crisis reflects that their concerns were justified." - Ron Paul
    We ask you to be so good as to pass a law requiring the closing of all windows, dormers, skylights, inside and outside shutters, curtains, casements, bull's-eyes, deadlights, and blinds ó in short, all openings, holes, chinks, and fissures through which the light of the sun is wont to enter houses, to the detriment of the fair industries with which, we are proud to say, we have endowed the country, a country that cannot, without betraying ingratitude, abandon us today to so unequal a combat.

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