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Thread: My take on Trump after Ron Paul 2012.

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    Art of the Deal.

    Thx to this outrageous statement we are talking about fixing illegal immigration. Otherwise nothing. Look what Rubio did. Voters gave him PAY BACK!
    The only thing that needs to be fixed is to remove entitlements and get the gov out of private lives.
    There is no spoon.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Hello. Sorry that you've been fooled into believing that Donald Trump is a non-interventionist. I was fooled too. Here's the truth.

    1) Donald Trump lied when he claimed to have been against the Iraq war from the beginning. The truth is that Trump called for the invasion of Iraq in 2002 and even in 2000 (before 9/11).

    2) Donald Trump called for U.S. troops to be sent into Libya to overthrow Khaddafi. That makes him more of an interventionist than even Obama.

    3) Donald Trump called Hillary Clinton "The best secretary of state" even after Benghazi.

    In short, Donald Trump is a snake oil salesman. He's not even against illegal immigration. He wants to deport all of the illegals then bring the "good ones" back "rapidly" through a "big beautiful door" in the wall that he's going to build and Mexico is going to pay for. He hired illegal immigrants to work for him. His ties are made in China. He's a big phony. Some of us see through him. Others refuse to see. Still others are fine with him being a phony because all they want is a GOP candidate that sucks so bad that the libertarian candidate might get 5% of the popular vote in the general election.
    Don't give snake oil a bad name.

    TRUTH: snake oil was very valuable in healing people until the gov stepped in and started the bad publicity. Now we think it's evil- makes me wonder how many lies the American people have bought into.
    There is no spoon.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    I'm not full retard on Trump and never will. It is intuitive. When NeoCons and Democrats and the media attack someone like they attacked Ron Paul. That guy must be doing something right! I agree with you on Cruz though. He stole Rand Paul voters on his lane.
    Pay more attention to exactly who is attacking him, more importantly, who is promoting him. There are multiple "factions" going after him, they do not necessarily have the same reasons. Sean Hannity is on the Trump Train, and this is the guy who said previously he would support the most conservative candidate in the race. Rush Limbaugh is on the Trump Train- these 2 alone speak to almost the entire GOP base on a daily basis. There would have been several more jump on a few weeks ago, until the runup to the Wisconsin primary, which brings up another important point- many of those on the GOP "team" in the press who attack Trump do it because of stupid things he has said, like punishing women for abortion, nukes for Japan, S Korea, nuking Europe if necessary, etc.
    I dont think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president, he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. Hes the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    I don't even care about Trump policies except that he is a non-interventionist and anti illegal immigration. So I'm surprised Ron Paul supporters don't like him that much.
    He's not a noninterventionist, or anything close to it. If he was, why do you think he was so anti-Ron Paul? He supported the Iraq War, until it turned out badly, and then in hindsight he decided to be against it. I'm not sure why you mention illegal immigration, given that Trump's views on that are so antithetical to liberty, to say nothing of all the other big-government, socialist policies that you don't mention and claim don't matter to you.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Don't give snake oil a bad name.

    TRUTH: snake oil was very valuable in healing people until the gov stepped in and started the bad publicity. Now we think it's evil- makes me wonder how many lies the American people have bought into.
    *sigh* Let's hope Donald Trump doesn't do that for non-interventionism, libertarianism and being anti-establishment.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    I can't believe how many people got hoodwinked into not supporting Ron Paul's own son, who Ron Paul himself fully supported..

    You are making the argument that, "In our world, you cannot succeed without it unless you have the establishment machine behind you." .... Well... WTF did you think Rand was trying to do?? If Ron Paul's supporters hadn't all abandoned Rand, we wouldn't be sitting here deciding whether or not we should support some authoritarian-lite just because he might be anti-establishment.. we would have a true freedom fighter in our corner, someone with a much better foreign policy than Trump.
    Many of us did get behind Rand. The problem was with the strategy of cozying up to the Republican establishment and catering to the left (groups that would for the most part never vote for him), rather than his base, independents and the average folks.

    His tax platform and attacking Trump only helped solidify the perception by many that Rand is one of them - the establishment. This was at a time Republicans were extremely angry looking for an anti-establishment candidate where clearly the Rand of 2016 was not strategically playing that role. If we got the earlier Rand prior to the 2016 race his performance in the primary may have been different.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    He's not a noninterventionist, or anything close to it. If he was, why do you think he was so anti-Ron Paul? He supported the Iraq War, until it turned out badly, and then in hindsight he decided to be against it. I'm not sure why you mention illegal immigration, given that Trump's views on that are so antithetical to liberty, to say nothing of all the other big-government, socialist policies that you don't mention and claim don't matter to you.
    http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/201...-in-the-world/

    He didn't support the Iraq War. He said "I guess so" and every anti trump are basking in glee. Having the guts to call the Iraq War a mistake in the SC debate was his stance. He had balls to do it. Respect. He destroyed Bush.

    Same bombshell as with the Blowback Ron Paul moment. Rand Paul didn't drop any bomb. He was mostly transparent.
    Last edited by Mordan; 04-11-2016 at 05:21 PM.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Hmmm...... my POV is quite the opposite.

    "There just happens to be a small loud contingent of Trump lover spammers here.

    And I seldom engage in the Trump dialog.
    I can remember a few months back seeing a few days where it was like that. However anyone that comes here daily can see the overall majority of new threads are anti-Trump including think tank talking points repeated verbatim. Considering the volume of posts and the verbatim think tank anti-Trump talking points I believe some of it is PAC money for social media.

    Probably a full time hire, posting here along with many other forums, disqus sites, Facebook, twitter, etc.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/201...-in-the-world/

    He didn't support the Iraq War. He said "I guess so" and every anti trump are basking in glee. Having the guts to call the Iraq War a mistake in the SC debate was his stance. He had balls to do it. Respect. He destroyed Bush.

    Same bombshell as with the Blowback Ron Paul moment. Rand Paul didn't drop any bomb. He was mostly transparent.
    He blatantly did support the Iraq war in 2002 when it counted. And he would support it again if the same thing happened during his presidency. It's nothing like what Ron Paul did in 2008, because then it was still an unpopular position in the GOP. We can thank Ron Paul for changing that. It took no guts for Trump now after the fact to say that he would have done things differently, and we wouldn't have gotten into a war that turned out bad, when in fact, we know he wouldn't have.
    Last edited by erowe1; 04-11-2016 at 07:54 PM.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    I can remember a few months back seeing a few days where it was like that. However anyone that comes here daily can see the overall majority of new threads are anti-Trump including think tank talking points repeated verbatim. Considering the volume of posts and the verbatim think tank anti-Trump talking points I believe some of it is PAC money for social media.

    Probably a full time hire, posting here along with many other forums, disqus sites, Facebook, twitter, etc.
    Most everyone who is anti-Trump has been here for years. Trump supporters that no one has ever seen on the forum or who joined 5 years ago & only have like 400 posts or less, are popping up every day.

    Can't imagine a RP forum supporting Trump. Trump supporters here started long before Rand was out of the race- so who would seem to have the profile of spamming? Supporters would be my guess.
    There is no spoon.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/201...-in-the-world/

    He didn't support the Iraq War. He said "I guess so" and every anti trump are basking in glee. Having the guts to call the Iraq War a mistake in the SC debate was his stance. He had balls to do it. Respect. He destroyed Bush.

    Same bombshell as with the Blowback Ron Paul moment. Rand Paul didn't drop any bomb. He was mostly transparent.
    Okay. If that's the way you want to look at it.

    And what's your rational for his full throated blood lust support for an invasion of Libya?

    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  15. #42
    I supported Ron because he was principled, honest, and defended liberty.

    IMO - Trump is the opposite.
    Don't let others get you down. Not naysayers, not pretenders, not appeasers, not opportunists; none of em.

    What others do pales beside what YOU do.

    Press on! - The r3VOLution continues...

    "Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence.Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."

    ~ C.Coolidge

  16. #43
    Adelson Sheldon said, "why not?" When Trump's nomination etc was mentioned to him. Also during his AIPAC speech said he would get rid of the Iran deal but later said he would police it hard. Now which is he gonna do? He can't police something that he gets rid of. He is like Obama and what Rand kinda wanted to be. Someone who is all things to all people. The only consistency is that he thinks the US is a business that isn't doing well and that he thinks he is capable of turning her around and making her great again. Trump is probably less interventionist than Hillary but he is no Ron Paul. Now why are we talking about this? This forum pretty much doesn't like Trump at all and the threads are less about ideas and more attacks on each other (I am planning on creating a Trump based thread in my favorite forum section). He doesn't need any advocates because he is doing just fine.

  17. #44
    I dont think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president, he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. Hes the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    Exactly, so which is it? He said it in the same speech. I've had one supporter argue that he was buttering AIPAC up with the dismantling rhetoric and the policing was his real position, but how do they know? Its just hope.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by ronpaulhawaii View Post
    I supported Ron because he was principled, honest, and defended liberty.

    IMO - Trump is the opposite.
    Really...no more difficult to understand than that.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    lol.. you made a huge mistake not supporting Rand. I can't believe how many people got hoodwinked into not supporting Ron Paul's own son, who Ron Paul himself fully supported..

    You are making the argument that, "In our world, you cannot succeed without it unless you have the establishment machine behind you." .... Well... WTF did you think Rand was trying to do?? If Ron Paul's supporters hadn't all abandoned Rand, we wouldn't be sitting here deciding whether or not we should support some authoritarian-lite just because he might be anti-establishment.. we would have a true freedom fighter in our corner, someone with a much better foreign policy than Trump.
    Couldn't have said it better.

    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to dannno again."

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    AIPAC pandering
    Obviously, he's suggesting they pass some sort of Israel-ring-kissing sanction on Iran. He's going to enforce this new deal on Iran in a strong way.

    It's stupid but it's not a flip flop.

    Cruz is way worse. Cruz wants to fight wars for Georgia, Armenia, Urkaine NWO Christians, Sunni wahabis in Syria/Iraq, Sunni wahabis in Yemen, and all over the place.
    BOWLING GREEN, Kentucky Washington liberals are trying to push through the so-called DREAM Act, which creates an official path to Democrat voter registration for 2 million college-age illegal immigrants.
    Rand Paul 2010

    Booker T. Washington:
    Cast it down among the eight millions of Negroes whose habits you know, whose
    fidelity and love you have tested in days when to have proved treacherous meant the ruin of your firesides.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by RandallFan View Post
    Obviously, he's suggesting they pass some sort of Israel-ring-kissing sanction on Iran. He's going to enforce this new deal on Iran in a strong way.

    It's stupid but it's not a flip flop.

    Cruz is way worse. Cruz wants to fight wars for Georgia, Armenia, Urkaine NWO Christians, Sunni wahabis in Syria/Iraq, Sunni wahabis in Yemen, and all over the place.
    He said it in the same speech, in both cases, he was referring to the same deal, the one that has already been passed.
    I dont think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president, he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. Hes the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  24. #50
    He was talking about a new deal obviously.
    BOWLING GREEN, Kentucky Washington liberals are trying to push through the so-called DREAM Act, which creates an official path to Democrat voter registration for 2 million college-age illegal immigrants.
    Rand Paul 2010

    Booker T. Washington:
    Cast it down among the eight millions of Negroes whose habits you know, whose
    fidelity and love you have tested in days when to have proved treacherous meant the ruin of your firesides.

  25. #51
    @Mordan I hear you and agree with you, but you must understand the people posting against you in this thread are "purists", they would rather have Trump lose the RNC/GOP, and have them run some loser against Hillary and down goes the country even further.

    You and me and few other still posting on RPF are the strategists we want to see Trump end the RNC shenanigans that prevented Ron Paul in 2012 from even getting the respect he had earned through the primaries at the convention. If Ron Paul ended peoples apathy what happened at that 2012 convention got it going again.
    The people still posting on RPF are in basically 2 camps now "Purists" and "Strategists", and Bryan seems to be favoring the purists now, he owns it, thats his right. But it's because they complained so bitterly and so constantly he was forced to do something to get them off his back.
    In my opinion it didn't make a liberty based forum on the 2016 election better, but self-censoring, which goes against libertarian principles.
    Et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by RandallFan View Post
    He was talking about a new deal obviously.
    My number-one priority is to dismantle the disastrous deal with Iran.

    ...


    When I’m president, I will adopt a strategy that focuses on three things when it comes to Iran. First, we will stand up to Iran’s aggressive push to destabilize and dominate the region.

    ...


    Third, at the very least, we must enforce the terms of the previous deal to hold Iran totally accountable. And we will enforce it like you’ve never seen a contract enforced before, folks, believe me.
    http://time.com/4267058/donald-trump...ch-transcript/
    I dont think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president, he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. Hes the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by ProBlue33 View Post
    @Mordan I hear you and agree with you, but you must understand the people posting against you in this thread are "purists", they would rather have Trump lose the RNC/GOP, and have them run some loser against Hillary and down goes the country even further.

    You and me and few other still posting on RPF are the strategists we want to see Trump end the RNC shenanigans that prevented Ron Paul in 2012 from even getting the respect he had earned through the primaries at the convention. If Ron Paul ended peoples apathy what happened at that 2012 convention got it going again.
    The people still posting on RPF are in basically 2 camps now "Purists" and "Strategists", and Bryan seems to be favoring the purists now, he owns it, thats his right. But it's because they complained so bitterly and so constantly he was forced to do something to get them off his back.
    In my opinion it didn't make a liberty based forum on the 2016 election better, but self-censoring, which goes against libertarian principles.
    Or it is because you Trump trolls shill for Trump endlessly kind of like the Obama trolls, Bernie trolls, Clinton trolls and Romney trolls. You guys are no different than them but you seem to expect respect for some reason... You want to drum up support for Trump who is an obvious authoritarian and get upset when people tell you that you are an idiot for trying to promote an authoritarian on a liberty forum. The argument that "the establishment hates Trump" isn't really an argument that supports liberty. Cry more though... your tears are delicious...
    A sense of danger gives birth to fear. And fear is the time-honored cross for the crucifixion of liberty.

  28. #54

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by twomp View Post
    Or it is because you Trump trolls shill for Trump endlessly kind of like the Obama trolls, Bernie trolls, Clinton trolls and Romney trolls. You guys are no different than them but you seem to expect respect for some reason... You want to drum up support for Trump who is an obvious authoritarian and get upset when people tell you that you are an idiot for trying to promote an authoritarian on a liberty forum. The argument that "the establishment hates Trump" isn't really an argument that supports liberty. Cry more though... your tears are delicious...
    I'm not trolling. I used to be trolling for RP on hannity forums . Here I came because I value the opinions of others. I understand that many here don't want Trump. Fine. I understand their arguments now. But it seems many Purists here are quick to insult or belittle.
    @ProBlue33
    I guess you have a point. Trump and Sanders advance the interests of Liberty in the end. Anything but the statu quo. Bush, Romney and Co. are backing Cruz. So Cruz is actually the Con.
    Sure Cruz knows the corrupted rules of selecting delegates. Ground game? Gimme a break. I will never forget RP 2012.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Hey guys the establishment really hates isisnorthkoreairanrussiabearpig lets support him and his cause because whatever hurts the establishment is good for us right guys?
    Quote Originally Posted by twomp View Post
    Or it is because you Trump trolls shill for Trump endlessly kind of like the Obama trolls, Bernie trolls, Clinton trolls and Romney trolls. You guys are no different than them but you seem to expect respect for some reason... You want to drum up support for Trump who is an obvious authoritarian and get upset when people tell you that you are an idiot for trying to promote an authoritarian on a liberty forum. The argument that "the establishment hates Trump" isn't really an argument that supports liberty. Cry more though... your tears are delicious...
    Is that kinda like how some on this forum supported the Occupy movement or cozied up with Code Pink? Double standard, anyone?
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Hey guys the establishment really hates isisnorthkoreairanrussiabearpig lets support him and his cause because whatever hurts the establishment is good for us right guys?
    I remember in school when one person acted up real bad then everyone was punished. This is collective punishment. We all collectively deserve Trump for not putting Ron Paul in office. Why should the elite be happy? We should all be miserable! They need to face what they created and reap the whirlwind: http://biblehub.com/hosea/8-7.htm

    I'm just curious what happens if Trump doesn't get the nomination. What are a bunch of poor white people going to do? Will they be complacent or will they give Homeland Security something to do and justify its existence? Colorado didn't have a vote. We are in interesting territory. I'm not familiar of any other time this has happened. Anyone?

    I'll never vote for Trump. Hopefully a third party candidate rises and gets the not Hillary or Trump vote! This election season is the perfect storm for one. I wish all the third parties would unite and support only one candidate and save us from Trump/Cruz and Hillary.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    I remember in school when one person acted up real bad then everyone was punished. This is collective punishment. We all collectively deserve Trump for not putting Ron Paul in office. Why should the elite be happy? We should all be miserable! They need to face what they created and reap the whirlwind: http://biblehub.com/hosea/8-7.htm

    I'm just curious what happens if Trump doesn't get the nomination. What are a bunch of poor white people going to do? Will they be complacent or will they give Homeland Security something to do and justify its existence? Colorado didn't have a vote. We are in interesting territory. I'm not familiar of any other time this has happened. Anyone?

    I'll never vote for Trump. Hopefully a third party candidate rises and gets the not Hillary or Trump vote! This election season is the perfect storm for one. I wish all the third parties would unite and support only one candidate and save us from Trump/Cruz and Hillary.
    Colorado actually did have a vote. Trump supporters didn't show up because the official campaign dropped the ball, or just didn't care.
    I dont think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president, he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. Hes the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    Colorado actually did have a vote. Trump supporters didn't show up because the official campaign dropped the ball, or just didn't care.
    Colorado changed their rules in August to create a firewall against an insurgent candidate. They would have found something to rob Trump of any delegates just like they did in Maine in 2012.

    If it was Cruz vs Bush, I bet you Bush would win all the delegates.

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    Colorado actually did have a vote. Trump supporters didn't show up because the official campaign dropped the ball, or just didn't care.
    Source? I thought that was the bone of contention, but can't find a definitive write-up about it.

    All I'm seeing is the "Trump is threatening violence!" narrative by the msm.

    What I have read is Trump spokesmen saying they never planned on spending resources on CO anyway. That would mean all the "we got cheated!" bluster is just to fire up the troops for the next one (which is smart).
    Last edited by Jamesiv1; 04-12-2016 at 07:20 AM.

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