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Thread: Why Ron Paul is right to NOT have a rape exception for abortion

  1. #1

    Default Why Ron Paul is right to NOT have a rape exception for abortion

    Hello all. I'm posting this to clarify Ron Paul's position on the so called "rape exception" on abortion, and why his answer is the only sane pro life answer.

    The rape exception is a "whip saw" that liberals use to slash pro-lifers coming and going. Here's how it works. If you say you don't support a rape exception then you don't care about rape victims. If you do support a rape exception, then that undermines your pro-life claim. After all, the fetus didn't commit the rape. Why should the fetus be murdered, if you believe abortion is murder, just because of a crime his/her father committed? We don't do that for any other crime.

    I have seen pro abortionists go after pro lifers who give into the rape exception political correctness in just the manner I mentioned. And...they're right. A rape exception for abortion is hypocritical. Here is the website of Rebecca Kiessling, a pro-life activist who was conceived by rape.

    http://www.rebeccakiessling.com/

    Do you have the guts to tell her that she should have been adopted?

    Check out this video of Gianna Davis, an abortion survivor of a late term saline abortion. Quote of the video is 7:30. "If abortion is about women's rights, then what about mine?"



    If her father had raped her mother, would her late term abortion have been okay?

    Which brings me to Ron Paul's position. He does not support a "rape exception" that could have been applied to Rebecca Kiessling even in a late term abortion like what happened with Gianna Davis. His position is based on the stage of pregnancy, not the manner of conception. He supports the morning after pill. He brought that up in the context of rape, but his position isn't about rape. Here are his words.

    Paul responded, No. If its an honest rape, that individual should go immediately to the emergency room. I would give them a shot of estrogen or give them...

    Morgan interjected, You would allow them to abort the baby?

    Paul replied, It is absolutely in limbo, because an hour after intercourse or a day afterwards, there is no legal or medical problem. If you talk about somebody coming in and they say, well, I was raped and Im seven months pregnant and I dont want to have anything to do with it, its a little bit different story.


    Apply that to the two women in question. Had Rebecca Kiessling's mom come to Dr. Paul immediately after the rape, he would have given her a shot of estrogen as emergency contraception. But note, he doesn't say he wouldn't have given Gianna Davis' mom the same shot. Consider this though. Say if Rebecca Kiessling's mom had been raped and held prisoner by her rapist for 7 months or even 3 months? At that point a shot of estrogen would not have done any good! A true "rape exception" for abortion considers the possibility that even in an "honest rape" a mother might not be able to get to the hospital within the time window for emergency contraception to be effective.

    So why does Ron Paul support emergency contraception? Because the overwhelming evidence is that it is not abortion. Yes there is a risk that it could be abortive as conception might have already happened. But even those against emergency contraception admit that is a rarity. There are all kinds of medications that women take for other purposes that might cause them to lose an embryo they might not even know is growing inside of them.

    Regardless of whether you agree with abortion or not, Ron Paul's position is at least logical in that it doesn't make a distinction on the value of an unborn life based on the immoral politically correct calculus that somehow the life of a child conceived in rape is worth less than the life of a child conceived in wanton pleasure.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  3. #2

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    Not the baby's fault. Undeserving of capital punishment execution. Now on the other hand, the rapist .......

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Not the baby's fault. Undeserving of capital punishment execution. Now on the other hand, the rapist .......
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...did-not-commit
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  5. #4

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    I am pro-life but I want to change peoples morality. Not force laws on them because that hasn't worked and isn't going to work any time soon.
    "I am a bird"

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    I am pro-life but I want to change peoples morality. Not force laws on them because that hasn't worked and isn't going to work any time soon.
    How about several "PREVENT unwanted pregnancies" drives?

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    How about several "PREVENT unwanted pregnancies" drives?
    For instance. As long as it's realistic because, well, young people will do what young people do.
    "I am a bird"

  8. #7

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    I am pro-choice, but I see the the pro-life argument in general. It is an issue that can be logically argued from both perspectives. Being pro-life is a completely reasonable view.

    On the other hand, I see no libertarian case for forcing a rape victim to carry out a pregnancy. You own your own body. In normal pregnancy, both sides willingly consented knowing the possible risks. In rape, a woman did not ask to this invasion of property rights. In the same way that you have the right to expel an unwanted intruder from your home you have the right to get rid of a parasite in your body.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    I am pro-choice, but I see the the pro-life argument in general. It is an issue that can be logically argued from both perspectives. Being pro-life is a completely reasonable view.

    On the other hand, I see no libertarian case for forcing a rape victim to carry out a pregnancy. You own your own body. In normal pregnancy, both sides willingly consented knowing the possible risks. In rape, a woman did not ask to this invasion of property rights. In the same way that you have the right to expel an unwanted intruder from your home you have the right to get rid of a parasite in your body.
    Then would you support Walter Block's evictionism? That is the idea that as medical technology advances, the mother is allowed to transfer the embryo/fetus to a surrogate mother and/or incubator. The baby isn't killed and the mother isn't forced to carry it to term. Actually the earliest cases of in vitro fertilization involved embryo transplantation so this isn't exactly new technology. As for rights, consider this. If you owned a boat and someone hijacked the boat and forced you to carry human sex slaves to another country, but you regained control in the middle of the ocean, should you have the right to throw the slaves overboard to certain death? Sure, you didn't invite them on the boat, but they didn't force their way onto the boat either. They were as much victims as you.

    Anyway, here's Walter Block on evictionism.



    Also note, I'm not saying what position anyone should have to take on this issue.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.






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