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Thread: Never Have We Had a Better Crop of Lemons

  1. #1

    Never Have We Had a Better Crop of Lemons

    The Democrats are about to superdelegate a treasonous madwoman into their nomination. And Fox is playing the anti-establishment fervor we stirred up in the GOP masterfully--not only is their halfhearted but constant and unrelenting criticism of Trump (which always and mysteriously seems to fall wide of the target as if accurate gunnery is forbidden in those hallowed halls) working perfectly to promote him--but when they have finished selling rank and file Republicans on nominating their biggest guaranteed loser this time they will be able to restore their tattered reputation by saying they told us so.

    Meanwhile, the general public--that sane mass of independent voters who used to think the people had a voice in who the Democrats nominate and who find carrying a voter registration card with an R on it distasteful ever since Dubya embarrassed the hell out of the country for eight years--are beginning to wake up to the pair of lemons the major parties expect them to choose from in November.

    Never has there been a better chance to make lemonade. Never has there been a better chance to wean people from the two party system, because never have those two parties pawned off on us a worse pair of losers.

    So, when are we going to stop playing with the trolls sent to distract us from this fact and begin the hard work of making the name of the most sane alternative to the major party insanity known to people? We have our work cut out for us making a sane candidate famous. When are we going to stop playing with these paid nuts and roll up our sleeves?

    Gary Johnson may not be much. But now that voters have gotten an eyeful of Clinton and Trump, he's bound to look as good as gold--if we can only get people to the point where they recognize his name. That's something the media is obviously not going to help us with.

    Is this site capable of being an asset in this task? Or is it so dedicated to giving free speech to paid spammers that we need to organize this movement elsewhere? Because this place is being overrun for a reason--we aren't going to get this job done by pretending that this political theater actually means something to sane people. As far as most people are concerned, all it means is we're screwed. If we begin now, all we have to do to convince people that the only thing standing between the Libertarian Party candidate and the White House is their vote. And with a pair of evils so evil there's no way to choose between them, they will see the wisdom of that--if they actually hear someone say it.

    All Bernie voters need is to be told that Gary Johnson believes in the Ninth and Tenth Amendments, so even though he'll cut the corrupt federal socialism, he won't interfere with more manageable state level socialism. As for the many conservative independent voters who realized that The Fascist Party abandoned them when they woke up to what a gem of a vice president they had gotten in Dick Cheney, all they need to see is someone publicizing any sane alternative.

    Like shooting fish in a barrel. If we can stop playing with the spammers long enough to get to work on it.

    Meanwhile, this site is so intent on avoiding charges of censorship that it's giving paid propagandists free reign to spam up the boards, but has a new autocensor which insists we change the psychotic former VP's nickname to Rick Cheney. We might need to start this project by finding a sane place to go where we can coordinate in peace, without pro spammers polluting our threads and the autocensor helping them disrupt our free speech...
    Last edited by acptulsa; 03-29-2016 at 06:46 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...



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  3. #2
    It's about time for some spring cleaning.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  4. #3
    Supporting Trump is the best way to implode the duopoly.

    Guys like Johnson are worse than useless.
    Donald Trump > SJW ass-tears

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Petar View Post
    Supporting Trump is the best way to implode the duopoly.

    Guys like Johnson are worse than useless.
    Keep bumping this thread, spammers. I don't mind lying bumps just as long as the truth of the OP gets bumped.

    We know how to implode the duopoly, and playing the lesser evil game with Beezelbub and Satan isn't it. Laughing at the people who are actually stupid enough to play the lesser evil game with Beezelbub and Satan is the way to destroy the Two Farcical Party System. And they have finally both become farce enough that we can really pull it off.

    Johnson ain't much, but he's sane. That's all we need him to be. Once the great mass of independent voters wake up to what the major parties are doing to them, about all they'll need to know about Gary Johnson is his name.

    "Bad cop" specialists, get to squeezing these major party clowns. "Good cop" specialists, add that sugar to Johnson. Time to make the lemonade!
    Last edited by acptulsa; 03-29-2016 at 07:47 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  6. #5
    I'm not sure Gary Johnson will actually be the LP nominee, but I sure as hell would vote for him over Drumpf and Hillary. If polls are accurate, so will a lot of other people. And Sanders has many voters who absolutely will not vote for Clinton, especially given the DNC's rigged games. Johnson would be the logical choice for disaffected Democratic voters and Independents.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by RJ Liberty View Post
    I'm not sure Gary Johnson will actually be the LP nominee, but I sure as hell would vote for him over Drumpf and Hillary. If polls are accurate, so will a lot of other people. And Sanders has many voters who absolutely will not vote for Clinton, especially given the DNC's rigged games. Johnson would be the logical choice for disaffected Democratic voters and Independents.
    And the more these paid spammers--which are all over the internet, not just here--turn people off with their nonsensical and blatant attempts to herd the sheep into trying to choose between these two devils, the more those unhappy voters will flock to our sides if only we will make a tiny bit of sense, and say one or two things here and there that don't insult their intelligence.

    This thing is ours to hand to the Libertarian on a silver platter--if we have self control enough to stop playing with the spammers here and go try to out-spam them across the rest of the internet. Americans are dying for a sane, intelligent candidate. They actually don't know that they already have one. This will be easier than selling ice cream to Honey BooBoo.

    But we have to stop jerking off these spammers to do it. If Bryan wants to write off this forum, who are we to argue? We have work to do elsewhere.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 03-29-2016 at 08:19 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Ad the more these paid spammers--which are all over the internet, not just here--turn people off with their nonsensical and blatant attempts to herd the sheep into trying to choose between these two devils, the more those unhappy voters will flock to our sides if only we will make a tiny bit of sense, and say one or two things here and there that don't insult their intelligence.

    This thing is ours to hand to the Libertarian on a silver platter--if we have self control enough to stop playing with the spammers here and go try to out-spam them across the rest of the internet.
    It's weird. I'm not sure how many of the Trumpettes here are actual paid spammers. Some of these accounts have been around since 2007 or 2008, which originally made me think they're genuine. Yet they're espousing positions which are the complete opposite of what they supposedly believed before. For example, there's one person who uses as his user image a picture of Ed Snowden, with the word "Hero". This account is now firmly for Trump, who has categorically stated he will execute Snowden. I can't take that user seriously anymore; either the account's been sold to someone, or the user did a complete 180 degree shift in his philosophy in a matter of months.

    I think some of the accounts are genuine; among these may be the ones who hope to hasten the end of the Republican Party. I can at least understand that philosophy. But the Trump true believers? No way. Some may be sold accounts, some may have been "sleeper" accounts... They're certainly not for smaller government or freer living.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    ...
    Gary Johnson may not be much. But now that voters have gotten an eyeful of Clinton and Trump, he's bound to look as good as gold--if we can only get people to the point where they recognize his name. That's something the media is obviously not going to help us with.
    ...
    Anecdotal, but my participation in some other forums with active political discussion (with a good cross section of viewpoints) indicates that there are a lot of people who are disgusted at the prospect of Sanders/Clinton v Trump/Cruz and absolutely amenable to voting for Gary Johnson. Should he be the LP nominee, I fully expect that he will far surpass the 1% of the vote he got last time even if he doesn't get to participate in a debate with the Dem/GOP candidates. If he does get to debate with them, things could get very interesting IMO.

    But most of the support I see for GJ in this context is soft. These are not people who are going to be activists (or donors). At most, they will show up on voting day and cast their vote. GJ will need a lot of media support - both "earned" and paid - to make real headway. RPF peeps helped Ron Paul garner earned media back in the day. They also gave him legitimacy with a decent campaign war chest. Do RPF peeps still exist in sufficient numbers to do the same for GJ? I don't know, but I'll continue to do what I do in supporting candidates who help promote the cause of liberty.

    Grassroots produced "viral" social media (ie. youtubes) were also very helpful for facilitating discussion and awareness. We used to have a lot of youtube warriors around here. Are there any left?



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Keep bumping this thread, spammers. I don't mind lying bumps just as long as the truth of the OP gets bumped.

    We know how to implode the duopoly, and playing the lesser evil game with Beezelbub and Satan isn't it. Laughing at the people who are actually stupid enough to play the lesser evil game with Beezelbub and Satan is the way to destroy the Two Farcical Party System. And they have finally both become farce enough that we can really pull it off.

    Johnson ain't much, but he's sane. That's all we need him to be. Once the great mass of independent voters wake up to what the major parties are doing to them, about all they'll need to know about Gary Johnson is his name.

    "Bad cop" specialists, get to squeezing these major party clowns. "Good cop" specialists, add that sugar to Johnson. Time to make the lemonade!
    acptulspam...
    Donald Trump > SJW ass-tears

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by RJ Liberty View Post
    It's weird. I'm not sure how many of the Trumpettes here are actual paid spammers. Some of these accounts have been around since 2007 or 2008, which originally made me think they're genuine. Yet they're espousing positions which are the complete opposite of what they supposedly believed before. For example, there's one person who uses as his user image a picture of Ed Snowden, with the word "Hero". This account is now firmly for Trump, who has categorically stated he will execute Snowden. I can't take that user seriously anymore; either the account's been sold to someone, or the user did a complete 180 degree shift in his philosophy in a matter of months.

    I think some of the accounts are genuine; among these may be the ones who hope to hasten the end of the Republican Party. I can at least understand that philosophy. But the Trump true believers? No way. Some may be sold accounts, some may have been "sleeper" accounts... They're certainly not for smaller government or freer living.
    You're giving them too much credit. No one is buying RPF accounts, otherwise a lot of people would be getting offers or it would be possible to actually find a buyer somewhere. The reason people who support snowden like Donald Trump is because Trump is selling a narrative that they're buying. Individual policy positions are largely irrelevant in terms of how most people make decisions. Humans aren't logical or consistent.
    Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. -Douglas Hofstadter

    Life, Liberty, Logic

  13. #11
    Liberty lovers need to quit being afraid of democrats winning elections. You heard me right. THE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ARE THE SAME!

    The LP will always be a spoiler for a Republican candidate. Because the heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. Virtually every LP vote is a vote taken away from the R's.

    If the LP were to get up to 5-10% not just in national elections, but state and local as well, the R's would find it hard to win an election virtually anywhere. They will HAVE to either run libertarian Republicans or let the whole party slide to the side of liberty. If the Dems continue to get stronger as a result, the R's have to realign to libertarianism or die.

    THIS is the nuclear option, not electing trump with his neocon foreign advisers, stupid amnesty plan, nihilist social leanings and progressive background indistinguishable from Clinton's. The trump option will cement the neocon, corporatist establishment in place for a very, very long time.

    Hey trump fans, listen to trump's ex-PAC staffer (your enemy), just as Ron Paul asked us to listen to Al Qaeda. trump's original plan was to be just that, a spoiler for the Republicans, so he could say he could have been President and raise his business profile. He knew that the effect would be to usher Clinton into office. trump's supporters are scared to death of Clinton in office. trump wasn't scared of that at all and I believe he still isn't. When he loses this election, his profile will be stronger than ever. He will have succeeded in making the trump name bigger than it ever was. He will make billions and leave you with Clinton.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrr View Post
    Liberty lovers need to quit being afraid of democrats winning elections. You heard me right. THE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ARE THE SAME!

    The LP will always be a spoiler for a Republican candidate. Because the heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. Virtually every LP vote is a vote taken away from the R's.

    If the LP were to get up to 5-10% not just in national elections, but state and local as well, the R's would find it hard to win an election virtually anywhere. They will HAVE to either run libertarian Republicans or let the whole party slide to the side of liberty. If the Dems continue to get stronger as a result, the R's have to realign to libertarianism or die.

    THIS is the nuclear option, not electing trump with his neocon foreign advisers, stupid amnesty plan, nihilist social leanings and progressive background indistinguishable from Clinton's. The trump option will cement the neocon, corporatist establishment in place for a very, very long time.

    Hey trump fans, listen to trump's ex-PAC staffer (your enemy), just as Ron Paul asked us to listen to Al Qaeda. trump's original plan was to be just that, a spoiler for the Republicans, so he could say he could have been President and raise his business profile. He knew that the effect would be to usher Clinton into office. trump's supporters are scared to death of Clinton in office. trump wasn't scared of that at all and I believe he still isn't. When he loses this election, his profile will be stronger than ever. He will have succeeded in making the trump name bigger than it ever was. He will make billions and leave you with Clinton.
    Trump is set to damage the GOP more than Losertarians could ever dream of doing themselves.
    Donald Trump > SJW ass-tears

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Petar View Post
    Trump is set to damage the GOP more than Losertarians could ever dream of doing themselves.
    In the sense that he's even more likely to put Hillary Clinton in office, you're right. I'm tempted to +rep you on that basis.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    We might need to start this project by finding a sane place to go where we can coordinate in peace, without pro spammers polluting our threads and the autocensor helping them disrupt our free speech...
    Don't let the door....
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrr View Post
    In the sense that he's even more likely to put Hillary Clinton in office, you're right. I'm tempted to +rep you on that basis.
    I guess you haven't heard that there are tens of millions of disaffected Bernie supporters who did their opposition research on Clinton, and have no intention of voting for her--in November or at any other time.

    I guess you also slept through our Blue Republican efforts, and therefore don't realize what many of us learned--that converting a Democrat to vote for a Libertarian for federal office is as simple as reminding them that state governments are closer to the people who need help, less corrupt and less wasteful than Washington is.

    No, your rule of thumb sounds neat, but this is 2016 and it just doesn't wash. You might find that, to borrow a phrase, an inconvenient truth. But it's the truth nonetheless.

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Don't let the door....
    You and your ilk keep telling me that. A lit sign can serve as a constant reminder of where the exit door is. Human beings are supposed to be good for somewhat more complex tasks.

    But hey. If being a human 'exit door' sign is the sum total of your abilities, then don't let me stand in the way of you realizing your full potential.

    In any case, it is a less deplorable activity than genuinely trying to throw the race to Clinton, by constantly promoting as the only alternative the GOP's least electable loser.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 03-29-2016 at 11:38 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  18. #16
    Gary Johnson would make a great alternative



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You and your ilk keep telling me that. A lit sign can serve as a constant reminder of where the exit door is. Human beings are supposed to be good for somewhat more complex tasks.

    But hey. If being a human 'exit door' sign is the sum total of your abilities, then don't let me stand in the way of you realizing your full potential.
    You are the one who made the claim, tulsa. No ilk.

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    We might need to start this project by finding a sane place to go where we can coordinate in peace, without pro spammers polluting our threads and the autocensor helping them disrupt our free speech...
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    No ilk.
    LOL

    So, I guess as 'exit door' signs go, you're in a class all by yourself?

    I'm so proud of you! Bless your pea pickin' little ol' heart.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I guess you haven't heard that there are tens of millions of disaffected Bernie supporters who did their opposition research on Clinton, and have no intention of voting for her--in November or at any other time.

    I guess you also slept through our Blue Republican efforts, and therefore don't realize what many of us learned--that converting a Democrat to vote for a Libertarian for federal office is as simple as reminding them that state governments are closer to the people who need help, less corrupt and less wasteful than Washington is.

    No, your rule of thumb sounds neat, but this is 2016 and it just doesn't wash. You might find that, to borrow a phrase, an inconvenient truth. But it's the truth nonetheless.
    I'll take your word for it with Blue Republicans. However, Bernie's watchword has been "socialism." Considerations of empire aren't as present in the discussion as wages and welfare entitlements. He's cultivating a pretty massive block of committed collectivists. Or perhaps they're just blow-in-the-wind disaffected who will fall for a loud-mouth populist Democrat next election ala the fair weather libertarian conservatives here being vacuumed to trump.

    And by the way, I agree that pockets of socialism can exist within a libertarian society (and perhaps only there), but that's a big educational step to bring angry leftists to.

    I have to admit, it would be intellectually interesting if we had DNC and RNC candidates in the general election and trump and Bernie in 3rd and 4th parties.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    LOL

    So, I guess as 'exit door' signs go, you're in a class all by yourself?

    I'm so proud of you! Bless your pea pickin' little ol' heart.
    Still dodging the fact that you are the one who appeared to be attempting to entice others to leave the site.

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Meanwhile, this site is so intent on avoiding charges of censorship that it's giving paid propagandists free reign to spam up the boards, but has a new autocensor which insists we change the psychotic former VP's nickname to Rick Cheney. We might need to start this project by finding a sane place to go where we can coordinate in peace, without pro spammers polluting our threads and the autocensor helping them disrupt our free speech...
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I guess you haven't heard that there are tens of millions of disaffected Bernie supporters who did their opposition research on Clinton, and have no intention of voting for her--in November or at any other time.

    I guess you also slept through our Blue Republican efforts, and therefore don't realize what many of us learned--that converting a Democrat to vote for a Libertarian for federal office is as simple as reminding them that state governments are closer to the people who need help, less corrupt and less wasteful than Washington is.

    No, your rule of thumb sounds neat, but this is 2016 and it just doesn't wash. You might find that, to borrow a phrase, an inconvenient truth. But it's the truth nonetheless.
    Wait… you're actually making the case that Gary Johnson is a viable choice??????

    Hang on, let's get a consensus on that opinion…



  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Still dodging the fact that you are the one who appeared to be attempting to entice others to leave the site.
    If I had an FRN for every time you ever ranted about getting off of here and preaching to someone other than the choir, I could buy a Bentley.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bossobass View Post
    Wait… you're actually making the case that Gary Johnson is a viable choice??????
    As compared to an overgrown third grade class bully and the Queen of Treason? This year he looks like manna from heaven.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 03-29-2016 at 11:54 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  26. #23
    I dream of 10s of millions of folks voting for a candidate other than Clinton or Trump.

    One person I know, an ultra-leftie who I nonetheless respect for his general intelligence, "fell into a hole in the internet" one day studying our election system. He says

    We use Plurality voting in this country. Plurality voting is a deeply flawed voting system that only works when there are exactly two choices (and it is the major reason we have exactly two parties in this country... mathematically it's impossible to have more because of our voting system). Every other modern democracy has either avoided it all together, or has left it behind... in favor of Condorcet Voting Methods. Condorcet methods (most of which involve some sort of ranking of the candidates) are accurate even when multiple choices are available. But with Plurality voting, any choice beyond two becomes a "spoiler" candidate... with a potential to split majorities and actually allow the LEAST desired candidate to "win".

    In such a system, if the choices in November are "Trump" or "Hillary" ... and you vote for anyone but Hillary, you are mathematically increasing the power of each Trump Voter, to the point you might as well have voted for Trump. You don't have to like it, but that is the choice, and that is the fact. Any vote for some fringe candidate like Jill Stine isn't a "protest vote" at all, it's an utter capitulation to Trump.
    I'm not quite following his assertions.

    Does plurality voting necessarily restrict one to just two major choices?

    If every state went majority Johnson, would Trump still win?

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    As compared to an overgrown third grade class bully and the Queen of Treason? This year he looks like manna from heaven.
    I didn't mention other choices, I'm just howling out loud at your suggestion that Gary Johnson is a viable choice because blah, blah.

    Ping Ron and ask him to endorse, maybe? Chase down the mystery billionaire and see if he plans to back GJ? Plan some really, really big rallies for GJ and the MSM might decide to cover them?

    Name calling and puking on RPF members is prob not a very good strategy. Good luck with that, though.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by buck000 View Post
    I dream of 10s of millions of folks voting for a candidate other than Clinton or Trump.

    One person I know, an ultra-leftie who I nonetheless respect for his general intelligence, "fell into a hole in the internet" one day studying our election system. He says



    I'm not quite following his assertions.

    Does plurality voting necessarily restrict one to just two major choices?

    If every state went majority Johnson, would Trump still win?
    Well, he is assuming that there is only one 'spoiler' in the race, and he's focused on alternatives to Clinton like the Green Party. If the Greens and the Libertarians were both drawing similar numbers, and each was stealing votes only from one of the major parties, neither is acting as a spoiler.

    What I'm proposing is giving conservatives an alternative they could like on his merits, and giving liberals like your acquaintance an alternative they could like on the basis that Johnson has executive experience, but not in Washington, and on the basis that social welfare policies are more efficient and easier to control if they have nothing to do with Washington.

    It's a reprise of the Blue Republican push, and the selling point is that it's a single alternative (let the Major Party Only Establishmentarians split their vote, while we unify ours) that has some appeal for everyone.

    Even abortion single-issue voters can find something to not hate with Johnson. While it's true he's no great friend to the anti-abortion crowd, neither is anyone else. Hell, Dubya and his daddy, and Reagan before them (the last three GOP presidents) turned out to be major disappointments, and they never even flip flopped on it the way Trump did. At least Johnson is unabashedly against adding insult to injury by making you pay for abortions, whether you have moral objections to them or not.

    That's actually a pretty big selling point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bossobass View Post
    Name calling and puking on RPF members is prob not a very good strategy. Good luck with that, though.
    Calling Trump an overgrown third grade class bully and Clinton the Queen of Treason is actually a pretty damned good strategy, if you're out to convince people they don't have to settle for a clown. As for puking, when I get puked on, it's awfully hard not to do a little puking myself. And I think reasonable people understand that.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 03-29-2016 at 12:18 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by buck000 View Post
    I'm not quite following his assertions.

    Does plurality voting necessarily restrict one to just two major choices?

    If every state went majority Johnson, would Trump still win?

    He's probably referring to the alternative vote. Somebody on RPF posted this a couple weeks ago. It's very interesting:

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...17868183,d.eWE

    trump supporters need to understand that his original 3rd party idea to sink Ron Paul would have been doomed because he was perceived as a leftist Democrat then. He still is one, he's just not perceived that way. Now after 8 years of rebranding, he would be an effective Republican spoiler. He originally entered this race to play that role. Now, he's still holding up to the Republicans that if they don't let him win, they'll get Hillary. It's a win-win either way for trump. In fact, he benefits more as a businessman if Hillary wins. When he refused to rule out running third party earlier in this cycle, he knew that any third party votes he got would sink Republicans and boost the Democrat.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrr View Post
    He's probably referring to the alternative vote. Somebody on RPF posted this a couple weeks ago. It's very interesting:

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...17868183,d.eWE

    trump supporters need to understand that his original 3rd party idea to sink Ron Paul would have been doomed because he was perceived as a leftist Democrat then. He still is one, he's just not perceived that way. Now after 8 years of rebranding, he would be an effective Republican spoiler. He originally entered this race to play that role. Now, he's still holding up to the Republicans that if they don't let him win, they'll get Hillary. It's a win-win either way for trump. In fact, he benefits more as a businessman if Hillary wins. When he refused to rule out running third party earlier in this cycle, he knew that any third party votes he got would sink Republicans and boost the Democrat.
    Right. But because Buck's friend is looking for an alternative to Clinton, the Queen of Treason, he was focused on parties like the Greens, which could only steal from the Democrats and would steal very few from the GOP.

    I think Johnson really could steal from both sides, if we can sell the idea that social programs can and should be done on the state or local level (if they're done at all). The fact that disaffected voters from 'both sides of the aisle' could vote for Johnson (even if they have to hold their noses to do it) is a huge selling point. No one is splitting their votes; instead all the people who are fed up are finding a way they can stand to combine their votes.

    Using Blue Republican selling points, we can put the LP candidate in that position. No other alternative can draw from both sides, and be something more than just a spoiler.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 03-29-2016 at 12:27 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I think Johnson really could steal from both sides, if we can sell the idea that social programs can and should be done on the state or local level (if they're done at all). The fact that disaffected voters from 'both sides of the aisle' could vote for Johnson (even if they have to hold their noses to do it) is a huge selling point. No one is splitting their votes; instead all the people who are fed up are finding a way they can stand to combine their votes.
    Yes, but the perception is that what the Fed Gov has at its disposal through IRS collections and reapportionment is vastly more than a state or local government could administer. I see the Bernie supporters as deliriously hungry for entitlements in the same way trump supporters are deliriously angry about Mexicans and ISIS.

    You would have to convince, for instance, New Jersey Bernieites that they'll get more handouts from Chris Christie than they will from a Democrat in the White House. That just seems like a really hard sell.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Petar View Post
    Supporting Trump is the best way to implode the duopoly.

    Guys like Johnson are worse than useless.
    The wisdom of Swordy:

    On bringing the troops home
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are coming home, all the naysayers said they would never leave Syria and then they said they were going to stay in Iraq forever.

    It won't take very long to get them home but it won't be overnight either but Iraq says they can't stay and they are coming home just like Trump said.

    On fighting corruption:
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump had to donate the "right way" and hang out with the "right people" in order to do business in NYC and Hollyweird and in order to investigate and expose them.
    Fascism Defined

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrr View Post
    Yes, but the perception is that what the Fed Gov has at its disposal through IRS collections and reapportionment is vastly more than a state or local government could administer.
    And the answer is, if Washington is so corrupt that it skims 60% of it off the top, then having a bigger pool of money at the beginning just makes the fat cats fatter. It doesn't make the poor any less hungry.

    If you want to help the poor, install social workers right in their neighborhood. Not up to three thousand miles away in Washington.

    That's what I mean by the Blue Republican message. If you want your local socialists to be able to do some good on the ground where the poor are, then you need Libertarians in Washington cutting those taxes so the state can levy enough to get the job done.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 03-29-2016 at 12:40 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

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