Dear Trumpskiites. "Rapidly" does not equal "Wait their turn."

[NOVALibertarian]

That's a pretty collectivist statement for someone that consider themselves a libertarian.

Look at how most Hispanics vote. At some point you have to form a generalization, and history tells us that the entire concept of liberty in Latin America is a foreign concept at best, and non-existent at worst.

[jmdrake]

The "big picture" is that Trump, unlike everyone else, seemingly realizes the threat that mass third-world immigration poses to the West.

It amazes me that libertarians don't realize that America becoming New Brazil will be worse for the cause of liberty than Donald Trump ever could be. Good luck enacting liberty-friendly reforms when a group of people, most of whom know nothing about the idea of liberty and philosophy behind it, are the majority. The entire idea of liberty and inalienable rights are essentially a product of Western civilization. Meanwhile, most of the third-world immigrants that arrive in America, especially the illegals, have no intention of assimilating and adopting western values. Hopefully you see the long-term problem here.

For me, that's the big picture.

Ummmmm....no. The "big picture" is that Trump is claiming to be concerned about mass third-world migration while pushing what is expensive amnesty. That is the big picture. Deport them all....then bring them back rapidly. All you seem to hear Trump say is the parts that fit what you're hoping he will do.

[NOVALibertarian]

Ummmmm....no. The "big picture" is that Trump is claiming to be concerned about mass third-world migration while pushing what is expensive amnesty. That is the big picture. Deport them all....then bring them back rapidly. All you seem to hear Trump say is the parts that fit what you're hoping he will do.

So worst case scenario is that Trump does exactly what everyone else would have done. By doing so, Trump's legacy is flushed down the toilet and he loses in a massive landslide in 2020, if not outright primaried.

Don't underestimate his ego to want to be remembered as the guy who Made America Great Again.

[Jamesiv1]

Ummmmm....no. The "big picture" is that Trump is claiming to be concerned about mass third-world migration while pushing what is expensive amnesty. That is the big picture. Deport them all....then bring them back rapidly. All you seem to hear Trump say is the parts that fit what you're hoping he will do.

"oh noes! Trump expensive amnesty! oh noes! Trump will bring them back rapidly!!"

Trump has the best words and that's all you need to know.

[jmdrake]

So worst case scenario is that Trump does exactly what everyone else would have done. By doing so, Trump's legacy is flushed down the toilet and he loses in a massive landslide in 2020, if not outright primaried.

Don't underestimate his ego to want to be remembered as the guy who Made America Great Again.

No. Worse case scenario is that he does worse than everyone else. He spends the money to deport the people he's going to bring back rapidly. Then he makes those people citizens and gets reelected in a landslide in 2020 and uses eminent domain to give them all your land. Ustados Unitos es made muy bueno otro bes!

[RonPaulMall]

Ummmmm....no. The "big picture" is that Trump is claiming to be concerned about mass third-world migration while pushing what is expensive amnesty. That is the big picture. Deport them all....then bring them back rapidly. All you seem to hear Trump say is the parts that fit what you're hoping he will do.

Trump has been in the public spotlight for 40 years. We know him well enough to form an opinion about what his likely views are towards flooding America with third world immigrants or whether he thinks it is a good idea that America has been granting green cards to twice as many Muslims than Europeans over the past couple years. And since the starting point of this whole negotiation is going to be an Immigration Bill drafted by Jeff Sessions himself, there is even less reason for concern.

[misterx]

How many times is this thread going to be posted with a different title?

[erowe1]

America has been granting green cards to twice as many Muslims than Europeans over the past couple years.

Source?

[jmdrake]

Trump has been in the public spotlight for 40 years. We know him well enough to form an opinion about what his likely views are towards flooding America with third world immigrants or whether he thinks it is a good idea that America has been granting green cards to twice as many Muslims than Europeans over the past couple years. And since the starting point of this whole negotiation is going to be an Immigration Bill drafted by Jeff Sessions himself, there is even less reason for concern.

And during that 40 years he has:

1) Called for a complete assault weapons ban. (Year 2000; Source - Trump's book "The America We Deserve")

2) Hired illegal immigrants himself

3) Built factories in China

4) Been for the Iraq war (2002) then against the Iraq war (2004), then lied and said he had always been against in (2015 GOP debate)

5) Supporter sending troops into Libya to overthrow Khaddafi, only to years later say that was a horrible idea.

6) Supporter expanding H1B visas, then opposed that, then supported it, then....I'm not sure what his stance is now

7) Never admitted he was wrong about anything.

So....your hope is based on the idea that he's lying this time and that he will keep his promise to let Jeff Sessions handle everything. Okay.

[erowe1]

And since the starting point of this whole negotiation is going to be an Immigration Bill drafted by Jeff Sessions himself, there is even less reason for concern.

This is the guy who makes Trump even less concerning for you?
http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Jeff_Sessions.htm

[NOVALibertarian]

This is the guy who makes Trump even less concerning for you?
http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Jeff_Sessions.htm

He's great on immigration. That's what he was brought on board for.

[erowe1]

He's great on immigration. That's what he was brought on board for.

No he isn't. He's a statist through and through. He's for a wall, for deporting people, and for punishing employers who hire illegal immigrants. I can't imagine he's against e-Verify. He gets an A+ at Numbers USA. He has no interest in trusting the free market.

[Wilf]

Look at how most Hispanics vote. At some point you have to form a generalization, and history tells us that the entire concept of liberty in Latin America is a foreign concept at best, and non-existent at worst.

Replace Hispanic with urban voters. What do you think?

[LibertyEagle]

No he isn't. He's a statist through and through. He's for a wall, for deporting people, and for punishing employers who hire illegal immigrants. I can't imagine he's against e-Verify. He gets an A+ at Numbers USA. He has no interest in trusting the free market.

He is for deporting ILLEGAL ALIENS, yes. Good. In fact, YAY. About damn time.

[Tywysog Cymru]

This is the guy who makes Trump even less concerning for you?
http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Jeff_Sessions.htm

Where he stands on the issues doesn't really matter. All that matters is that he's a nationalist and not a globalist. Sure, he strongly supported the War in Iraq but he "puts America's interests first!!!"

[Wilf]

He is for deporting ILLEGAL ALIENS, yes. Good. In fact, YAY. About damn time.

What if those illegal aliens enter the country legally?

[r3volution 3.0]

The "big picture" is that Trump, unlike everyone else, seemingly realizes the threat that mass third-world immigration poses to the West.

The greatest threat to the West is its native population...

...politically empowered, thinking they know enough to have an opinion which anyone should care about.

In short, democracy.

[LibertyEagle]

What if those illegal aliens enter the country legally?

Then they are not illegal aliens.

[Wilf]

Then they are not illegal aliens.

They chould be mistaken?

[CPUd]

WHAT DOES TRUMP MEAN?

This is more difficult. I was talking today with somebody who has spent some time with Trump who emphasized that he does not have real experience with policy and doesn't think in terms of detailed policy. The likelihood is that these comments from him on national TV are things he has thought about but not things that have been worked out in policymaking meetings with staffers and others.

Note that Trump largely sidestepped questions about citizenship. But these two interviews over the last two days -- combined with interviews granted last week about wanting to keep hard-working illegal aliens in the country -- seem to suggest a policy like this:

1. Illegal aliens would not be rewarded with legal status (work permits, benefits, Social Security cards, citizenship, etc.) without at least first leaving the country.

2. No legal status would be granted to those illegal aliens until illegal immigration is brought under control. At a minimum, that includes a fence and adequate Border Patrol activity. He still hasn't said if he would take away the jobs magnet nor has he commented on a number of interior enforcement tools.

3. He would start giving legal status to illegal aliens who have gone home ONLY after the "bad" illegal aliens have been deported from the U.S.

4. Once the prerequisites have been met, he would move quickly to get deserving illegal aliens back into the United States. But who are the deserving ones? Some previous comments suggest that it might be only people who have worked hard (illegally) at U.S. jobs and not used taxpayer assistance. Some people think his comments suggest that only illegal aliens with highly valued skills would be allowed back in. Or maybe it is just anybody who didn't build a criminal record while in the U.S. Depending on the answer to this question, the number allowed back in might be as high as nine million or as low as just tens of thousands, by my estimate.

5. He wants the deserving illegal aliens back in the United States in an expedited fashion. Does that mean there will be additional green cards made available, in which case legal immigration will rise considerably for some time? Or does he want to make the currently available green cards in the current numbers to be given first to the illegal aliens, causing other foreign citizens who are in line to wait more years, in which case the level of legal immigration would remain the same at around 1 million annually?

In general, Trump has described a Touchback Amnesty which was pushed a few years ago by Rep. Mike Pence (now governor of Indiana). At the time, he was one of the hottest rising stars of the conservative movement. Pence's star immediately plummeted upon his championing the Touchback Amnesty, and it took him years to recover political stature.

The difference between Trump's Touchback and Pence's seems to be that Trump has put a lot of "have-to" steps before the amnesty would be given. Those steps might take years.

We may be being generous in giving Trump a Mixed rating on amnesty right now. We will be watching very closely for more signals. We know that he is very, very serious about protecting the American people from tragic violence from illegal aliens. We haven't seen corresponding signs yet that he is thinking about protecting American workers and their families from harmful job and wage competition.

https://www.numbersusa.com/blog/trum...aise-his-grade

[FindLiberty]

This Trump stuff might seem a little bit contentious now,
but I predict we will all be on the same side again in about
7 months when we will all agree to complain about the
exact same things as we find ourselves re-united in the
pursuit of Liberty, regardless of the election outcome.

(There may still be some butt hurt name-calling though.)