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Thread: Challenge: Name one part of Trump's consistent ideology where he is pro-liberty

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Petar View Post
    GOP = bad.

    Ruining GOP = good.
    The trouble maker in me really likes that about him. He has my support on an emotional level. I want to kick the GOP with him. I hate those wreckers of my country.


    However, the intellectual side of me says to the emotional side, "uh, yeah, I hate the GOP too, but What are you going to do when Trump follows through on his threat to execute Snowden?"

    A man with your avatar should seriously ask himself that, Petar.



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  3. #32
    ..
    Last edited by Unknown.User; 03-19-2016 at 12:31 AM.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown.User View Post
    He speaks out against endless wars
    Trump wants to send 30,000 troops to Syria.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    Trump wants to send 30,000 troops to Syria.
    When a candidate campaigns on two positions that contradict each other, which one is the truth, and which one is the lie?
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  7. #35
    He does not think that people who smoke cigarettes should be thrown in jail.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    So the plan is:
    1) Vote for Trump.
    2) ?
    3) GOP is ruined.
    Yes, I have not thought about this. How does Trump getting the nomination ruin the GOP? I cannot for the life of me think of one way that will ruin the GOP. The GOP has grown in membership because of Trump. Can someone explain how him getting the nomination destroys the GOP? It is the main talking point of the **********s on the forum.

    Do tell how the GOP will be destroyed if Trump gets the nomination.
    "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    -Benjamin Franklin

  9. #37
    Here is more info if somebody has time to read it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politi...f_Donald_Trump


    Trump has described his political positions in various and often contradictory ways over time.[11][12][13][14] Trump has told Brett Baier: "I will be changing very rapidly. I'm capable of changing to anything I want to change to."[15] The New York Times reported that "waffling, flip-flopping and inconsistencies, all of which might hobble a conventional candidate, have not dimmed Mr. Trump's appeal to his Republican supporters."
    Last edited by timosman; 03-17-2016 at 08:41 PM.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike4Freedom View Post
    Yes, I have not thought about this. How does Trump getting the nomination ruin the GOP? I cannot for the life of me think of one way that will ruin the GOP. The GOP has grown in membership because of Trump. Can someone explain how him getting the nomination destroys the GOP? It is the main talking point of the **********s on the forum.

    Do tell how the GOP will be destroyed if Trump gets the nomination.
    If Trump gets the nomination, count on the GOP to ruin themselves.

  11. #39
    xxxxx
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 07-25-2018 at 09:24 AM.
    So long, and thanks for all the fish

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike4Freedom View Post
    Yes, I have not thought about this. How does Trump getting the nomination ruin the GOP? I cannot for the life of me think of one way that will ruin the GOP. The GOP has grown in membership because of Trump. Can someone explain how him getting the nomination destroys the GOP? It is the main talking point of the **********s on the forum.

    Do tell how the GOP will be destroyed if Trump gets the nomination.
    Many of them seem to believe it will open the party up next cycle to candidates who <insert single-issue fringe position> because it would remove the "fringe". They either don't know or forgot what happened to the state GOPs that were taken over in 2012 by liberty people who were not even necessarily considered fringe, but definitely not members of the old guard.

    What is more likely to happen if Trump is the nominee, he will get crushed in the general so badly, the rank-and-file will be begging the party to run candidates like Bush, Kasich, Romney, and reject anyone who goes outside the lines.

    Some of them are anarchists who don't vote, they just like stirring (or smoking) the pot.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    Bryan pointe dout, in another thread, that the public suffers from cognitive dissonace; so it really doesn't matter because the average Joe can accept two contradictory beliefs as being true.
    But the point is that both positions cannot be true, at least one of them has to be a lie, and shows that the candidate is dishonest.
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  15. #42
    xxxxx
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 07-25-2018 at 09:25 AM.
    So long, and thanks for all the fish

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    But the point is that both positions cannot be true, at least one of them has to be a lie, and shows that the candidate is dishonest.
    "The one that you wish to be true is true." This is the result of multiple generations raise on Disney fairyland cartoons.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    "The one that you wish to be true is true." This is the result of multiple generations raise on Disney fairyland cartoons.
    Just like Pelosi(a woman he supported with $100s of thousands of money in campaign donation)

    We have to elect the Donald to see what hes all about. Also like Tom Woods said, he is a wildcard which I think means that there is a chance that he would be gangbusters for liberty.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Just like Pelosi(a woman he supported with $100s of thousands of money in campaign donation)

    We have to elect the Donald to see what hes all about. Also like Tom Woods said, he is a wildcard which I think means that there is a chance that he would be gangbusters for liberty.
    Just like passing a healthcare bill, to find out what's in it.
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  19. #46
    We just need to focus on making America great again. We can focus on the liberty/freedom/etc stuff later.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    When a candidate campaigns on two positions that contradict each other, which one is the truth, and which one is the lie?
    The true position is the one he wasn't tricked or manipulated into. Raimondo pointed out how the moderator at the last debate lured him into a trap of accepting what the senior military claim is needed in the Mid east, even if they didn't really claim it:

    “From the beginning of this campaign, you have said you will follow the judgment of military commanders in the Pentagon. So here’s the commander saying we need a lot more troops on the ground. Will you follow that advice and inject Americans again into what is in essence is metastasizing Sunni-Shia civil war?”

    To begin with, Hewitt is a bigger liar than Cruz: Gen. Austin said no such thing. Here is what he did say:

    "’Clearly there are things that we will want to do to increase the capability a bit, to be able to increase the pace of operations, and that will require some additional capability. We have gone through and done some analysis … to see what types of things we need to provide. And we have made those recommendations.’

    “While Austin declined to share the recommendations in the hearing, he said additional US military personnel could help develop better intelligence on the ground, potential provide more advise-and-assist teams and help with some logistics. ‘We could increase some elements of the Special Operations footprint,’ he explained.”

    Lying Ted claimed that we’re fighting with one hand tied behind our back, and said we aren’t arming the Kurds (we are). He never challenged Hewitt’s assertion that Gen. Austin is recommending “a lot more” troops on the ground, although he probably knows it’s incorrect. Instead, he reversed his previous reluctance to commit to grounds troops in Syria and went along with Hewitt’s fictional account of what “the generals” supposedly want.

    Worst of all was Trump, who fell right into Hewitt’s ambush:

    “HEWITT: Mr. Trump, more troops?

    “TRUMP: We really have no choice. We have to knock out ISIS. We have to knock the hell out of them. We have to get rid of it. And then come back and rebuild our country, which is falling apart. We have no choice.

    “HEWITT: How many…

    “TRUMP: I would listen to the generals, but I’m hearing numbers of 20,000 to 30,000. We have to knock them out fast. Look, we’re not allowed to fight. We can’t fight. We’re not knocking out the oil because they don’t want to create environmental pollution up in the air. I mean, these are things that nobody even believes. They think we’re kidding. They didn’t want to knock out the oil because of what it’s going to do to the carbon footprint. We don’t fight like we used to fight. We used to fight to win. Now we fight for no reason whatsoever. We don’t even know what we’re doing.

    “So, the answer is we have to knock them out. We have to knock them out fast. And we have to get back home. And we have to rebuild our country which is falling apart.”

    Of course Trump has no idea what Gen. Austin actually said at that congressional hearing, and Hewitt knows he doesn’t. And Trump’s answer to the question – really a complete reversal of his previous position that we should let the Russians take care of ISIS – underscores both the weaknesses and the strengths of “isolationism,” American style.
    http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2...good-bad-ugly/
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...ate-deception/

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    The true position is the one he wasn't tricked or manipulated into. Raimondo pointed out how the moderator at the last debate lured him into a trap of accepting what the senior military claim is needed in the Mid east, even if they didn't really claim it:
    http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2...good-bad-ugly/
    Ah, so he must have been tricked or manipulated into lying! What wonderful qualities your candidate has, I wish you luck in getting him elected.
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    Ah, so he must have been tricked or manipulated into lying! What wonderful qualities your candidate has, I wish you luck in getting him elected.
    I'm voting Libertarian this year. And I note Rand also got rolled into certain incoherent positions in his efforts to finesse foreign policy in a war hawk campaign environment. We didn't necessarily declare him a liar over it, so neither should we with Trump. The fuller context, as shown in the quote, makes clear Trump was careless in this instance, not lying.

    When the media strongly pressures one to discuss a 'threat' or rely on the military experts assessing such, it's easy to accept that interventionist-friendly premise and get drawn into specifying hypothetical follow-up actions about how you will respond to it. That's different than stating your policy preference, apart from that premise. You're conflating different things.
    Last edited by Peace&Freedom; 03-17-2016 at 10:57 PM.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...ate-deception/

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike4Freedom View Post
    Yes, I have not thought about this. How does Trump getting the nomination ruin the GOP? I cannot for the life of me think of one way that will ruin the GOP. The GOP has grown in membership because of Trump. Can someone explain how him getting the nomination destroys the GOP? It is the main talking point of the **********s on the forum.

    Do tell how the GOP will be destroyed if Trump gets the nomination.
    it only strengthens the voters of the GOP to believe that they can at least nominate whoever they want. Does nothing whatsoever to weaken the GOP.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    Ah, so he must have been tricked or manipulated into lying! What wonderful qualities your candidate has, I wish you luck in getting him elected.
    There goes the whole "he is a good negotiator" reason for voting for him. The reporter just made him take a policy position that he did not really support. How about that?

  26. #52
    The correct answer to this question, of course, is that there are simply no parts of Trump's ideology that is consistently pro-liberty. Zero.

    Because Trump's only ideology is self-promotion. He has no other belief system.

    If anyone thinks Trump would benefit liberty in any way, it is just their own wishful thinking based upon their own self-imposed fantasy. A great self-promoter knows exactly how to play to those fantasies without an ideology. Obama did it, too. He just played to the fantasies of the other side of the aisle.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  27. #53
    There are none, I don't claim he's liberty, most I know don't, it is the impact of of his campaign that I am supporting and will continue to. No one running is liberty, so what is the point of this post?

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by hankrichter12 View Post
    There are none, I don't claim he's liberty, most I know don't, it is the impact of of his campaign that I am supporting and will continue to. No one running is liberty, so what is the point of this post?
    Reality check.

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    The correct answer to this question, of course, is that there are simply no parts of Trump's ideology that is consistently pro-liberty. Zero.

    Because Trump's only ideology is self-promotion. He has no other belief system.

    If anyone thinks Trump would benefit liberty in any way, it is just their own wishful thinking based upon their own self-imposed fantasy. A great self-promoter knows exactly how to play to those fantasies without an ideology. Obama did it, too. He just played to the fantasies of the other side of the aisle.
    No one is saying he's pro-liberty, doesn't mean he can't still benefit liberty. I think anyone who looks at Glenn Greenwald would know he is not pro-liberty at all, but he still broke the Snowden story didn't he?

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by hankrichter12 View Post
    No one is saying he's pro-liberty, doesn't mean he can't still benefit liberty. I think anyone who looks at Glenn Greenwald would know he is not pro-liberty at all, but he still broke the Snowden story didn't he?
    Different situation entirely. Greenwald moved things in the right direction on one particular issue. Trump moves things in the opposite direction of liberty on just about every issue. Like I said, you are blinded by your hopes and fantasies of what might happen - but there's zero evidence to support what you wish for could actually happen that way. In reality, it would be quite the opposite.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Different situation entirely. Greenwald moved things in the right direction on one particular issue. Trump moves things in the opposite direction of liberty on just about every issue. Like I said, you are blinded by your hopes and fantasies of what might happen - but there's zero evidence to support what you wish for could actually happen that way. In reality, it would be quite the opposite.
    Oh, please do tell me what are these "hopes and fantasies" I've professed to that are blinding me?

    Trump has moved many things in the right direction, just because some of it might not be in line with your views doesn't mean they are wrong, just means you don't agree with it.

    As far as what he'll do bad, we're going to get that or worse no matter who gets in there, so your argument on that is moot.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by hankrichter12 View Post
    Oh, please do tell me what are these "hopes and fantasies" I've professed to that are blinding me?

    Trump has moved many things in the right direction, just because some of it might not be in line with your views doesn't mean they are wrong, just means you don't agree with it.

    As far as what he'll do bad, we're going to get that or worse no matter who gets in there, so your argument on that is moot.
    You have the fantasy that Trump is moving things towards liberty or that his run somehow will benefit the liberty movement. Do you have some evidence of that? Other than your wish that it might happen that way?

    The direction I desire is towards less government and more freedom. Trump is a move in the opposite direction. But, you're right - I don't agree with that. If you draw a moral equivalence with more government just being another "view" and it doesn't mean it's "wrong", then you're already working against the whole purpose of this forum.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Lol, there's that sig line making perfect sense again.
    Indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    That's an interesting policy proposal and issues stance for your candidate. Do you have a link or quote for that?
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    So the plan is:
    1) Vote for Trump.
    2) ?
    3) GOP is ruined.
    1) Vote for Trump
    2) GOP is ruined
    3) Do liberty stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    The trouble maker in me really likes that about him. He has my support on an emotional level. I want to kick the GOP with him. I hate those wreckers of my country.

    However, the intellectual side of me says to the emotional side, "uh, yeah, I hate the GOP too, but What are you going to do when Trump follows through on his threat to execute Snowden?"

    A man with your avatar should seriously ask himself that, Petar.
    If Trump really goes after Snowden, then liberals are going to have at least one legitimate thing to focus their rage on.

    Basically, ruining the GOP will ruin the DNC as well.

    That is the political environment that is gonna allow actual liberty candidates to start making gains all over the country.

    The bull$#@! that we have now is basically just a massive, all-around deadlock.
    Donald Trump > SJW ass-tears

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    You have the fantasy that Trump is moving things towards liberty or that his run somehow will benefit the liberty movement. Do you have some evidence of that? Other than your wish that it might happen that way?

    The direction I desire is towards less government and more freedom. Trump is a move in the opposite direction. But, you're right - I don't agree with that. If you draw a moral equivalence with more government just being another "view" and it doesn't mean it's "wrong", then you're already working against the whole purpose of this forum.
    Desire whatever you like, bottom line is you're accomplishing nothing. I gave my reasons in the post below, you are too hung up on your hatred of Trump the man to see or discuss anything else.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...14#post6163514

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