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Thread: "Libertarians for Trump"

  1. #1

    Angry "Libertarians for Trump"

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/03/...tarians-trump/

    Dr. Donald Miller (donaldwmiller@gmail.com) and I (wblock@loyno.edu) are starting up a new group to be called Libertarians for Trump.

    LFT has its work cut out for it in mobilizing massive support for Donald Trump within the libertarian community. For there are some libertarians who oppose supporting any politician for political office, even a 99% pure one such as Dr. Ron Paul. However, I dedicated this book to refuting arguments of that sort: Block, Walter E. 2012. Yes to Ron Paul and Liberty. New York: Ishi Press. (By the way, the forward to that book – not written by me — contains, in my opinion, the single best short essay ever written about Dr. Paul).

    Let me just say that there is nothing, nothing at all, incompatible between libertarianism and voting, or supporting political candidates. Both Lew Rockwell and Murray Rothbard can be considered political junkies, and you won’t find too many better libertarians than those two.

    Suppose we were all slaves, and the master said we could have a democratic election; we could vote for overseer Baddie, who would whip us unmercifully once per day, or overseer Goodie, who would do exactly the same thing, but only once per month. We all voted for the latter. Is this incompatible with libertarianism? Would this make us worse libertarians? Anyone who thinks so does not really understand this philosophy. For a remedial course, read this book: Rothbard, Murray N. 1998 [1982]. The Ethics of Liberty, New York: New York University Press.

    There are several issues upon which libertarians do not and cannot support Donald Trump. For example, protectionism. But, typically, regarding the issues where Mr. Trump deviates from libertarianism, so do the other candidates.

    And, also, we readily admit that the presidential nominee of the Libertarian Party (unless they nominate someone like, ugh, Bob Barr) will very likely have views much closer to ours than those of Mr. Trump.

    But, the perfect is the enemy of the good. It is our goal to throw our weight behind the candidate who has a reasonable chance of actually becoming President of the United States whose views are CLOSEST to libertarianism.

    When put in this way, it is clear that The Donald is the most congruent with our perspective. This is true, mainly because of foreign policy. And, of the three, foreign policy, economic policy and person liberties, the former is the most important. As Murray Rothbard and Bob Higgs have demonstrated over and over again, US foreign policy determines what occurs in economics and in the field of personal liberties. Foreign policy is the dog that wags the other two tails.

    We readily concede Mr. Donald Trump is no Ron Paul on foreign policy or anything else for that matter. However, compared to his Republican alternatives, the Donald stands head and shoulders above them. He has said, time and time again, things like “Look at what we did in Iraq. It’s a mess. Look at what we did in Algeria. It’s a mess there too. And we’re going to repeat our mistakes in Syria? Not on my watch.” Would Cruz or Rubio ever say anything like that? To ask this question is to answer it. And, very importantly, who is the one candidate who went out of his way so as to not antagonize Russia and Premier Putin? It is the Donald, that is who. Do we really want to fight World War III with Russia? With Mr. Trump at the helm, we minimize the chances of this catastrophe occurring. (See Donald Miller’s brilliant article on this issue, mentioned below). Yes, future President Trump wants a strong military, but with only a few exceptions, fewer than the other Republican candidates, only to defend our country

    Here are some positive things written about Mr. Donald Trump:

    Buchanan, Patrick J. 2016. “Will the Oligarchs Kill Trump?” March 8;

    Heilbrunn, Jacob. 2016. “The Neocons vs. Donald Trump.” March 10; The New York Times.

    Mercer, Ilana. 2016. “Trump and Trade.” March 10

    Miller, Donald W, Jr. 2016. “Trump: Our Only Hope for Escaping World War III.” March 9

    Please consider joining our new group, LFT. There are no dues or fees. All you need to do is give me your name, email address (which we will not use) and affiliation (professional and/or just mention the city and state you live in). We will release the list of names of LFT members once we reach 100 participants. I ask that you do this not because in this way we may have some effect on a Trump Administration although there is an outside chance we might (he is now beset upon from so many sides, and so unfairly, that he might well appreciate the relatively small support we can give him). I ask you to do this, rather, because it is the right thing to do; he is, of all the major candidates for the office of President of the United States, the one most closely, albeit very far from perfectly, aligned with our beloved libertarian philosophy. If you know of other essays written in support of Mr. Trump, either by a libertarian, or, emphasizing the fact that his views are more aligned with our own than those of other major candidates, send them to us so that we can add them to our bibliography of such literature.


    Dr. Block [send him mail] is a professor of economics at Loyola University New Orleans, and a senior fellow of the Ludwig von Mises Institute. He is the author of Defending the Undefendable, The Case for Discrimination, Labor Economics From A Free Market Perspective, Building Blocks for Liberty, Differing Worldviews in Higher Education, and The Privatization of Roads and Highways. His latest book is Yes to Ron Paul and Liberty.



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  3. #2

  4. #3
    Submitted without comment.


    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by randomname View Post
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/03/...tarians-trump/

    Dr. Donald Miller (donaldwmiller@gmail.com) and I (wblock@loyno.edu) are starting up a new group to be called Libertarians for Trump.

    LFT has its work cut out for it in mobilizing massive support for Donald Trump within the libertarian community. For there are some libertarians who oppose supporting any politician for political office, even a 99% pure one such as Dr. Ron Paul. However, I dedicated this book to refuting arguments of that sort: Block, Walter E. 2012. Yes to Ron Paul and Liberty. New York: Ishi Press. (By the way, the forward to that book – not written by me — contains, in my opinion, the single best short essay ever written about Dr. Paul).

    Let me just say that there is nothing, nothing at all, incompatible between libertarianism and voting, or supporting political candidates. Both Lew Rockwell and Murray Rothbard can be considered political junkies, and you won’t find too many better libertarians than those two.

    Suppose we were all slaves, and the master said we could have a democratic election; we could vote for overseer Baddie, who would whip us unmercifully once per day, or overseer Goodie, who would do exactly the same thing, but only once per month. We all voted for the latter. Is this incompatible with libertarianism? Would this make us worse libertarians? Anyone who thinks so does not really understand this philosophy. For a remedial course, read this book: Rothbard, Murray N. 1998 [1982]. The Ethics of Liberty, New York: New York University Press.

    There are several issues upon which libertarians do not and cannot support Donald Trump. For example, protectionism. But, typically, regarding the issues where Mr. Trump deviates from libertarianism, so do the other candidates.

    And, also, we readily admit that the presidential nominee of the Libertarian Party (unless they nominate someone like, ugh, Bob Barr) will very likely have views much closer to ours than those of Mr. Trump.

    But, the perfect is the enemy of the good. It is our goal to throw our weight behind the candidate who has a reasonable chance of actually becoming President of the United States whose views are CLOSEST to libertarianism.

    When put in this way, it is clear that The Donald is the most congruent with our perspective. This is true, mainly because of foreign policy. And, of the three, foreign policy, economic policy and person liberties, the former is the most important. As Murray Rothbard and Bob Higgs have demonstrated over and over again, US foreign policy determines what occurs in economics and in the field of personal liberties. Foreign policy is the dog that wags the other two tails.

    We readily concede Mr. Donald Trump is no Ron Paul on foreign policy or anything else for that matter. However, compared to his Republican alternatives, the Donald stands head and shoulders above them. He has said, time and time again, things like “Look at what we did in Iraq. It’s a mess. Look at what we did in Algeria. It’s a mess there too. And we’re going to repeat our mistakes in Syria? Not on my watch.” Would Cruz or Rubio ever say anything like that? To ask this question is to answer it. And, very importantly, who is the one candidate who went out of his way so as to not antagonize Russia and Premier Putin? It is the Donald, that is who. Do we really want to fight World War III with Russia? With Mr. Trump at the helm, we minimize the chances of this catastrophe occurring. (See Donald Miller’s brilliant article on this issue, mentioned below). Yes, future President Trump wants a strong military, but with only a few exceptions, fewer than the other Republican candidates, only to defend our country

    Here are some positive things written about Mr. Donald Trump:

    Buchanan, Patrick J. 2016. “Will the Oligarchs Kill Trump?” March 8;

    Heilbrunn, Jacob. 2016. “The Neocons vs. Donald Trump.” March 10; The New York Times.

    Mercer, Ilana. 2016. “Trump and Trade.” March 10

    Miller, Donald W, Jr. 2016. “Trump: Our Only Hope for Escaping World War III.” March 9

    Please consider joining our new group, LFT. There are no dues or fees. All you need to do is give me your name, email address (which we will not use) and affiliation (professional and/or just mention the city and state you live in). We will release the list of names of LFT members once we reach 100 participants. I ask that you do this not because in this way we may have some effect on a Trump Administration although there is an outside chance we might (he is now beset upon from so many sides, and so unfairly, that he might well appreciate the relatively small support we can give him). I ask you to do this, rather, because it is the right thing to do; he is, of all the major candidates for the office of President of the United States, the one most closely, albeit very far from perfectly, aligned with our beloved libertarian philosophy. If you know of other essays written in support of Mr. Trump, either by a libertarian, or, emphasizing the fact that his views are more aligned with our own than those of other major candidates, send them to us so that we can add them to our bibliography of such literature.


    Dr. Block [send him mail] is a professor of economics at Loyola University New Orleans, and a senior fellow of the Ludwig von Mises Institute. He is the author of Defending the Undefendable, The Case for Discrimination, Labor Economics From A Free Market Perspective, Building Blocks for Liberty, Differing Worldviews in Higher Education, and The Privatization of Roads and Highways. His latest book is Yes to Ron Paul and Liberty.
    Why can't a libertarian support protectionism? If another country is using forced labor or manipulating it's currency or charging tariffs themselves, what do libertarians suggest to remedy that? Further, if a libertarian believes in free association, then surely you would agree that like minded people can get together and form whatever society they like. So if I get thousands, or even millions to agree to be part of a community and we agree that within the community we have as much autonomy as possible, but when dealing with things outside the community, the question of is it a good or bad thing for the community is paramount. Do I have it wrong?

  6. #5
    This seems a little premature. We don't even know who the Libertarian nominee is yet.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulGeorge&Ringo View Post
    This seems a little premature. We don't even know who the Libertarian nominee is yet.
    Print out a blank character sheet and I'll grab the dice.

    Can we make him a paladin? I want to name him "Righteous Justice, the Authoritarian Slayer".

  8. #7
    Ask Lew who he votes for. LOL!

    And Murray is dead.

  9. #8



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilf View Post
    Well, Rockwell's site does have an article saying that "Rodger Stone endorses Trump".
    Ron would say, don't vote for Trump. Lew won't.

  12. #10
    The perfect is the enemy of the good. So what is evil again?

    The only other thing I'm hearing here is "I need to vote for somebody who's going to win."

    A person who wears a sticker that says "I Didn't Vote" on election day will make far more impact than anyone's actual vote for Trump or Clinton.

  13. #11

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Ron would say, don't vote for Trump. Lew won't.
    That is my point. Does not having an article saying that "Nixon dirty trickster" endorsing Donald Trump creates suspicions that "some" libertarians are willing to "sellout" the cause of liberty for something else?

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilf View Post
    That is my point. Does not having an article saying that "Nixon dirty trickster" endorsing Donald Trump creates suspicions that "some" libertarians are willing to "sellout" the cause of liberty for something else?
    Just a lot of statists in phony libertarian clothing.

    Lew did say that Rothbard would love Trump, as being a much needed demagogue.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Just a lot of statists in phony libertarian clothing.

    Lew did say that Rothbard would love Trump, as being a much needed demagogue.
    Yup, I don't think Rothbard would not undermine Rand's campaign like Trump like Lew Rockwell did.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilf View Post
    Yup, I don't think Rothbard would not undermine Rand's campaign like Trump like Lew Rockwell did.
    Lew is just being principled and consistent. That's mostly why I like and most usually agree with him.
    Last edited by Ronin Truth; 03-15-2016 at 11:33 AM.

  18. #16
    DJT a Libertarian? lol, I think not!

    Maybe they meant to say authoritarian.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    ...much needed demagogue.
    Yea, demagogue nails it!

    And as history teaches, a well-intentioned authoritarian can be the most dangerous flavor.

    But hopefully it will turn out better than an approved candidate maintaining the present,
    steady decline path back to bondage... I think it comes down to Clinton or Trump.


    Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual
    truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance,
    from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from
    complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, and from dependence back
    again to bondage.

    Yes, it could get real ugly and burn quickly because the wrong tactics will probably
    be applied at first, by Trump. But he is a smart man and has backed out of a bad deal
    and changed directions before, then trying something else (though he'd rather win instead!).

    America could become great again. At least our internal enemy will finally be engaged as long
    as that loud pissing and moaning sound from the status quo choir continues to push back.

    Best worst case: The final prize may be way down the road if Liberty can rise again,
    like a phoenix, from the ashes.

  21. #18
    fools.
    The ultimate minority is the individual. Protect the individual from Democracy and you will protect all groups of individuals
    Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. - Thomas Jefferson
    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

    - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Perhaps the most important lesson from Obamacare is that while liberty is lost incrementally, it cannot be regained incrementally. The federal leviathan continues its steady growth; sometimes boldly and sometimes quietly. Obamacare is just the latest example, but make no mistake: the statists are winning. So advocates of liberty must reject incremental approaches and fight boldly for bedrock principles.
    The epitome of libertarian populism

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Feeding the Abscess View Post
    Lew didn't write the post. Walter Block did.
    Thanks for catching that. Insert the name Block for Lew in my above post.

  24. #21
    ...the perfect is [not] the enemy of the good. It is our goal to throw our weight behind the candidate who has a reasonable chance of actually becoming President of the United States whose views are CLOSEST to libertarianism.

    When put in this way, it is clear that The Donald is the most congruent with our perspective. This is true, mainly because of foreign policy. And, of the three, foreign policy, economic policy and person liberties, the former is the most important. As Murray Rothbard and Bob Higgs have demonstrated over and over again, US foreign policy determines what occurs in economics and in the field of personal liberties. Foreign policy is the dog that wags the other two tails.

    We readily concede Mr. Donald Trump is no Ron Paul on foreign policy or anything else for that matter. However, compared to his Republican alternatives, the Donald stands head and shoulders above them.
    This is the key point Miller and Block are making, along with noting Trump puts libertarians in a better position of fighting the system that has blocked our candidates from succeeding for decades:

    As far as politics are concerned, more than anything else in this world, it is imperative that the establishment elite in Washington, D.C., are dethroned. Right now, Republican Donald Trump and Democrat Bernie Sanders are the two men who are most effectively accomplishing that task. Rand Paul and Ted Cruz (and to a lesser extent Ben Carson and Carly Fiorina) are also mounting anti-establishment campaigns, but they have not been nearly as effective as Trump." ---Chuck Baldwin
    Last edited by Peace&Freedom; 03-15-2016 at 02:14 PM.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    Submitted without comment.


    Who-eeee

    Them women got faces that'll stop an 8 day clock.

  26. #23
    "Look at that face. Would anyone vote for that?" lol He's got a point there...

    Highlighting the politically incorrect truths that come out of Donald's mouth will only help him:



    Ad fail.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Feeding the Abscess View Post
    Lew didn't write the post. Walter Block did.
    True, but the subject line in today's Lew Rockwell email is “Libertarians for Trump”, and that article is the first in line of the 11 other new articles in both the email and at the website.
    Last edited by robert68; 03-15-2016 at 04:44 PM.



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  29. #25
    "Libertarians for authoritarian statism"

    Radical in the sense of being in total, root-and-branch opposition to the existing political system and to the State itself. Radical in the sense of having integrated intellectual opposition to the State with a gut hatred of its pervasive and organized system of crime and injustice. Radical in the sense of a deep commitment to the spirit of liberty and anti-statism that integrates reason and emotion, heart and soul. - M. Rothbard

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Cabal View Post
    "Libertarians for authoritarian statism"

    Libertarians for Killing Protestors!

    Libertarians for Murdering Family Members!

    Libertarians for Torture!

    Libertarians for Hanging Traitor Snowden!

    Libertarians for Government Crushing Dissent!

    Libertarians for MOAR GOVERNMENT POWERRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    Print out a blank character sheet and I'll grab the dice.

    Can we make him a paladin? I want to name him "Righteous Justice, the Authoritarian Slayer".
    What is this nonsense about? Are you having a seizure?

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrr View Post
    The perfect is the enemy of the good. So what is evil again?

    The only other thing I'm hearing here is "I need to vote for somebody who's going to win."

    A person who wears a sticker that says "I Didn't Vote" on election day will make far more impact than anyone's actual vote for Trump or Clinton.
    "Any compromise between good and evil only works to detriment of the good and to the benefit of the evil."

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrr View Post
    duplicate


    "Any compromise between good and evil only works to detriment of the good and to the benefit of the evil."

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilf View Post
    That is my point. Does not having an article saying that "Nixon dirty trickster" endorsing Donald Trump creates suspicions that "some" libertarians are willing to "sellout" the cause of liberty for something else?
    Sorry, I just really attempt to keep things as simple as possible. Ya kinda lost me there, in that.

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