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Thread: CONSPIRACY IN PHILADELPHIA - Origins of the United States Constitution

  1. #1

    CONSPIRACY IN PHILADELPHIA - Origins of the United States Constitution

    CONSPIRACY IN PHILADELPHIA - Origins of the United States Constitution

    http://www.garynorth.com/philadelphia.pdf

    On May 25th, 1787, a group of 55 men gathered for a closed meeting in Philadelphia. Officially, it was being convened to discuss alterations to the then constitution of the United States of America: the Articles of Confederation. Some state legislatures had authorized their representatives to attend the meeting only on this basis, explicitly prohibiting them from considering a new constitution. To make certain that the general public did not find out about the nature of this conspiracy, the convention members swore an oath not to discuss any proceedings with the public...for the rest of their lives. The only first-hand accounts of the proceedings were published several years later after the death of the last survivor, James Madison, in 1836. The press was forbidden to attend. The meetings were held on the second floor of the building, so that would-be eavesdroppers could not hear anything. The new constitution would become the law of the land whenever nine state conventions ratified it. This was in explicit violation of the Articles, which required a unanimous vote for amendments. Thus did a group of men launch a coup-d'etat. This coup established a new national covenant in 1788, a covenant stripped of the Articles' invocation of God, "The Great Governor of the World," with only the old country's name transferred for public relations' sake: the United States of America. Today, we would call this a trademark violation. But it worked. In this new book from NiceneCouncil.com Conspiracy in Philadelphia: The Broken Covenant of the U.S. Constitution Dr. Gary North, in nearly five hundred pages with thousands of footnotes rehearses the story of the deeply theological origins and implications of that coup against the God of the Bible and His people, the Church of the Lord Jesus!


    http://www.amazon.com/Conspiracy-Phi...hiladelphia%22

    Enjoy!

    "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make ye free." .... but first it will really tick ye off.
    Last edited by Ronin Truth; 03-12-2016 at 09:34 AM.



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  3. #2
    Hah hah...I'll wait on HVACTech to come into the thread and spew some in-sensibilities.

    Read part of this years ago, will have to finish.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Hah hah...I'll wait on HVACTech to come into the thread and spew some in-sensibilities.

    Read part of this years ago, will have to finish.
    Well, now that you have posted here he is sure to stalk follow.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Hah hah...I'll wait on HVACTech to come into the thread and spew some in-sensibilities.

    Read part of this years ago, will have to finish.
    "You can lead an A/CTech to knowledge, but you can't make him think."

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    "You can lead an A/CTech to knowledge, but you can't make him think."
    I resemble that remark.
    “[T]he enshrinement of constitutional rights necessarily takes certain policy choices off the table.” (Heller, 554 U.S., at ___, 128 S.Ct., at 2822.)

    How long before "going liberal" replaces "going postal"?

  7. #6
    Ive read into this book some,...i plan to continue, its amazing....but i wanted to discuss a few things.

    First, the author seems to avocate for religious tests for office.

    Now, dont get me wrong "The Great Governor of the World" has absolutely every reason to be honored by our government, but why specifically mandate the trinity as a test for office? Adams, Jefferson, Franklin....not one were trinitarians, yet all took part in our revolution in significant ways.

    Would it not be more appropriate for individuals states to decide their own tests, and limit the federal test to either nothing or the belief in the "Great Governor of the World" allowing for men like Jefferson to hold office?

    Since grade school I've felt an attachment to the Articles somehow....this has inspired me to write a constitution just for fun, incorporating elements of the aoc, the constitution, the dec. of indepen., the Virginia dec. of rights, the bill of rights, and the french rights of man.....that is all for now. Maybe when i finish, ill share.
    Last edited by Libertas Aut Mortis; 03-14-2016 at 11:16 PM.

  8. #7
    Well it all turned out for the best.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  9. #8
    Oh tex lol...

    I wanted to comment once again on a fallacy I've noticed. This book talks about the "newtonian, unitarian, masonic god" being the faction of the conspiracy founders, and their prime motive in drafting the constitution, yet they make no mention of their god (which the Christians in the room had no issue referencing) and they were deathly afraid of jefferson finding out, though he was very similar in faith.
    The declaration and the aoc both already spoke to a providential supreme being without specifying Christianity. Why would there be any need to overthrow under unnecessary pretenses.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Libertas Aut Mortis View Post
    Ive read into this book some,...i plan to continue, its amazing....but i wanted to discuss a few things.

    First, the author seems to avocate for religious tests for office.

    Now, dont get me wrong "The Great Governor of the World" has absolutely every reason to be honored by our government, but why specifically mandate the trinity as a test for office? Adams, Jefferson, Franklin....not one were trinitarians, yet all took part in our revolution in significant ways.

    Would it not be more appropriate for individuals states to decide their own tests, and limit the federal test to either nothing or the belief in the "Great Governor of the World" allowing for men like Jefferson to hold office?

    Since grade school I've felt an attachment to the Articles somehow....this has inspired me to write a constitution just for fun, incorporating elements of the aoc, the constitution, the dec. of indepen., the Virginia dec. of rights, the bill of rights, and the french rights of man.....that is all for now. Maybe when i finish, ill share.
    If you're not familiar with Gary North, he is a major Theonomist figure.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Libertas Aut Mortis View Post
    Oh tex lol...

    I wanted to comment once again on a fallacy I've noticed. This book talks about the "newtonian, unitarian, masonic god" being the faction of the conspiracy founders, and their prime motive in drafting the constitution, yet they make no mention of their god (which the Christians in the room had no issue referencing) and they were deathly afraid of jefferson finding out, though he was very similar in faith.
    The declaration and the aoc both already spoke to a providential supreme being without specifying Christianity. Why would there be any need to overthrow under unnecessary pretenses.
    Because the supreme being of the Masons is Lucifer?

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    If you're not familiar with Gary North, he is a major Theonomist figure.
    I was not familiar with him before I started reading, but I ended up looking him up, to realize that he calls for a return to Theocracy, ruled by Old Testament Law....complete with stoning people to death for lying about their virginity, and i presume, banning the mixing of fabrics ect.

    I am in complete opposition to a return to a Jewish Law Theocracy personally.

    As far as a Christian Theocracy, I find that to be absolutely paradoxical. You must choose out of Free Will to be a Christian, to use the unjust power of coercion to violate Free Will to force compliance with "Gods Law" strikes me as the Luciferian as opposed to Christian.

    Which takes me to the point made by Ronin...

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Because the supreme being of the Masons is Lucifer?
    I disagree. Contemporary Masonry cannot be bound to any possible conspiracy of the past....just you cannot bound current advocates of the Constitution to the desire to Overthrow the Legitimate Government of the United States in a Coup as illustrated so well by the author. Another way to view what I am trying to say.

    The Pledge of Allegiance right after the Civil War was a Socialist tool to undermine States in order to impose Centralized Tyranny. Fine. That is fair. However, that is not the case today, as the meaning has been totally changed. Today the Pledge of Allegiance has been crafted in opposition to Socialism (see Eisenhower edit). Meanings change even when symbols do not.

    So lets take the Masonic God. First off Masonry is not a religion. It is a fraternity, of whom you are required to believe in a higher power to become a member. You can be Christian, Muslim, Deist, Jew, ect...doesn't matter, as Masonry itself holds to believe in one God....the nature of that God is up to the member. In that respect, regardless of whatoutside influences may say or think, Masons essentially believe that we all serve the same God, regardless of his name.

    Now, you may call that Lucifer, and maybe...maybe it would be if it were rejecting God to worship Man or to violate Free Will "in the name of God", but it seems to be more of a philosophy of fraternity than a french revolution style calling for the destruction of christianity and establishment of the Cult of the Supreme Being or Cult of Reason. Philosophy vs Religion.

    Now, the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation, Virginia Declaration of the Rights, the French Rights of Man, ect....talk of God in "Deistic" terms. Such as "Creator" or "Supreme Being". This, in masonic philosophy, allows the individual to decide for himself, using Free Will, his Creators nature....the while, there is recognition that regardless of who you think your creator is...you could be wrong in your interpretation...that we share a Creator, and from him are we entitled Life and Liberty ect.

    I think the conspiratorial notion that masons worship Lucifer is intellectually lazy and misrepresents the true beliefs of the majority of masons at the time.

    I will note, that my question still stands. Why would the Founding Fathers not pay homage to their "Masonic God" in the New Constitution, as they "did" in the Dec. of Ind. and the Articles of COnfederation?

    Perhaps they didn't include any religious statements because the Constituion is not meant to be a philosophical document, but rather an instituional one.

    Perhaps the elimination of federal religious tests is so that Liberty and Free Will could prevail over religious tyranny.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Libertas Aut Mortis View Post
    I disagree. Contemporary Masonry cannot be bound to any possible conspiracy of the past....just you cannot bound current advocates of the Constitution to the desire to Overthrow the Legitimate Government of the United States in a Coup as illustrated so well by the author. Another way to view what I am trying to say.

    The Pledge of Allegiance right after the Civil War was a Socialist tool to undermine States in order to impose Centralized Tyranny. Fine. That is fair. However, that is not the case today, as the meaning has been totally changed. Today the Pledge of Allegiance has been crafted in opposition to Socialism (see Eisenhower edit). Meanings change even when symbols do not.

    So lets take the Masonic God. First off Masonry is not a religion. It is a fraternity, of whom you are required to believe in a higher power to become a member. You can be Christian, Muslim, Deist, Jew, ect...doesn't matter, as Masonry itself holds to believe in one God....the nature of that God is up to the member. In that respect, regardless of whatoutside influences may say or think, Masons essentially believe that we all serve the same God, regardless of his name.

    Now, you may call that Lucifer, and maybe...maybe it would be if it were rejecting God to worship Man or to violate Free Will "in the name of God", but it seems to be more of a philosophy of fraternity than a french revolution style calling for the destruction of christianity and establishment of the Cult of the Supreme Being or Cult of Reason. Philosophy vs Religion.

    Now, the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation, Virginia Declaration of the Rights, the French Rights of Man, ect....talk of God in "Deistic" terms. Such as "Creator" or "Supreme Being". This, in masonic philosophy, allows the individual to decide for himself, using Free Will, his Creators nature....the while, there is recognition that regardless of who you think your creator is...you could be wrong in your interpretation...that we share a Creator, and from him are we entitled Life and Liberty ect.

    I think the conspiratorial notion that masons worship Lucifer is intellectually lazy and misrepresents the true beliefs of the majority of masons at the time.

    I will note, that my question still stands. Why would the Founding Fathers not pay homage to their "Masonic God" in the New Constitution, as they "did" in the Dec. of Ind. and the Articles of COnfederation?

    Perhaps they didn't include any religious statements because the Constituion is not meant to be a philosophical document, but rather an instituional one.

    Perhaps the elimination of federal religious tests is so that Liberty and Free Will could prevail over religious tyranny.
    Read Pike.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Read Pike.
    Sure thing, I'll get back to you either later today or tomorrow sometime.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Libertas Aut Mortis View Post
    Sure thing, I'll get back to you either later today or tomorrow sometime.
    http://www.benpadiah.com/otherstuff/...lsAndDogma.pdf

    LUCIFER, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darknesss! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual or selfish Souls? Doubt it not!
    Last edited by Ronin Truth; 03-15-2016 at 12:00 PM.

  18. #16
    Thank you! I was going through snippets from your old posts and what I could find online. THIs helps greatlly



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Libertas Aut Mortis View Post
    I disagree. Contemporary Masonry cannot be bound to any possible conspiracy of the past....just you cannot bound current advocates of the Constitution to the desire to Overthrow the Legitimate Government of the United States in a Coup as illustrated so well by the author. Another way to view what I am trying to say.

    The Pledge of Allegiance right after the Civil War was a Socialist tool to undermine States in order to impose Centralized Tyranny. Fine. That is fair. However, that is not the case today, as the meaning has been totally changed. Today the Pledge of Allegiance has been crafted in opposition to Socialism (see Eisenhower edit). Meanings change even when symbols do not.

    So lets take the Masonic God. First off Masonry is not a religion. It is a fraternity, of whom you are required to believe in a higher power to become a member. You can be Christian, Muslim, Deist, Jew, ect...doesn't matter, as Masonry itself holds to believe in one God....the nature of that God is up to the member. In that respect, regardless of whatoutside influences may say or think, Masons essentially believe that we all serve the same God, regardless of his name.

    Now, you may call that Lucifer, and maybe...maybe it would be if it were rejecting God to worship Man or to violate Free Will "in the name of God", but it seems to be more of a philosophy of fraternity than a french revolution style calling for the destruction of christianity and establishment of the Cult of the Supreme Being or Cult of Reason. Philosophy vs Religion.

    Now, the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation, Virginia Declaration of the Rights, the French Rights of Man, ect....talk of God in "Deistic" terms. Such as "Creator" or "Supreme Being". This, in masonic philosophy, allows the individual to decide for himself, using Free Will, his Creators nature....the while, there is recognition that regardless of who you think your creator is...you could be wrong in your interpretation...that we share a Creator, and from him are we entitled Life and Liberty ect.

    I think the conspiratorial notion that masons worship Lucifer is intellectually lazy and misrepresents the true beliefs of the majority of masons at the time.

    I will note, that my question still stands. Why would the Founding Fathers not pay homage to their "Masonic God" in the New Constitution, as they "did" in the Dec. of Ind. and the Articles of COnfederation?

    Perhaps they didn't include any religious statements because the Constituion is not meant to be a philosophical document, but rather an instituional one.

    Perhaps the elimination of federal religious tests is so that Liberty and Free Will could prevail over religious tyranny.
    Out of Rep to give you, sir.

    As a mason myself, I could not have written it better. I would consider myself a Deist in the same vein as those you describe. It is a fruitless endeavor to try and convince someone that freemasonry is NOT devil worship, but alas it can be entertaining.
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Libertas Aut Mortis View Post
    Thank you! I was going through snippets from your old posts and what I could find online. THIs helps greatlly

    http://www.threeworldwars.com/albert-pike.htm

  22. #19
    Alright, from the links that you have posted and a little bit of independent research, I think I understand "the big picture" of what you are trying to say. Correct me if I am misrepresenting anything.

    Lucifer, or the "Morning Star, the Light Bearer, the Shining One" or whatever translation you choose to use, is the Lucifer of Isaiah 14, who was cast from Heaven because....

    -------------------
    How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!


    For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:


    I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
    ---------------------------

    Lucifer is then equated to Satan or the Devil (whichever name you prefer) by Revelations 12

    ------------------------

    And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


    And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.


    And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
    ---------------------------

    So, in line with Luke 10:18, " I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven"... Lucifer is Satan, and he was cast out of Heaven because he lusted to be God.

    **this is but one interpretation, Luther and Calvin, Augustine of Hippo, ect...even the Latin Vulgate, place Lucifer as lucifer, not being a proper name, but as "morning star" a descriptor for the King of Babylon. The Lucifer = Satan analogy stems greatly from the KJV Only Movement who does draw the connection**

    So, with that all in mind....we get to tying Occultism to Masonry. Lets begin by just ignoring Masonry and focusing on what Occultism is.

    Occultists, influenced by Gnostics, believe either that Lucifer of the Bible is the true God, or they can believe in the traits that Lucifer possess....or some combination. It is a broad range of beliefs.

    Ephesians 2

    ---
    Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:



    Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
    -----
    So the "prince of the power of the air" is represents Lucifer, which presses us into the "desires of the flesh and of the mind".

    Now, to copy and paste from Wikipedia what Luciferianism is...

    ---


    Although sometimes mistakenly associated with Satanism due to the Christian interpretation of the fallen angel, Luciferianism is a wholly different belief system[1] and does not revere the devil figure or most characteristics typically affixed to Satan. Rather, Lucifer in this context is seen as one of many morning stars, a symbol of enlightenment,[2] independence and human progression, and is often used interchangeably with similar figures from a range of ancient beliefs, such as the Greek titan Prometheus or the Jewish talmudic figure Lilith.


    They support the protection of the natural world. Both the arts and sciences are crucial to human development, and thus both are cherished. Luciferians think that humans should be focused on this life and how to make the most of it every single day. The ability to recognize both good and evil, to accept that all actions have consequences, both positive and negative, and to actively influence one's environment, is a key factor.


    For Luciferians, enlightenment is the ultimate goal. The basic Luciferian principles highlight truth and freedom of will, worshipping the inner self and one’s ultimate potential. Traditional dogma is shunned as a basis for morality on the grounds that humans should not need deities or fear of eternal punishment to distinguish right from wrong and to do good. All ideas should be tested before being accepted, and even then one should remain skeptical because knowledge and understanding are fluid. Regardless of whether Lucifer is conceived of as a deity or as a mere archetype, he is a representation of ultimate knowledge and exploration: humanity’s savior and a champion for continuing personal growth.

    ---

    In summation, Lucifer of the Bible was shunned from Heaven for attempting to reach Enlightenment, which is lusting to become God. (Which I personally could then see a tie-in to Original Sin, with man eating of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil at the temptation of Serpent...to tie in with the Revelations "ancient serpent"...meaning Lucifer...meaning that our natural desire for "Knowledge of Good and Evil" as discovered by ourselves (like Adam and Eve believing they had to be clothed) instead of by the commandments of God is the innate desire that we are born with. Human Nature is Luciferian by nature.)

    Occultists and Luciferians embrace Lucifer and what he represents. So the charge is, Masonry, at its core, is Luciferian.

    Honestly, I have come to believe that...in the same way that frowning upon someone who doesn't take their hat off at the dinner table is luciferian if seen in the correct light.

    But Masonry may be more so. Masons do not necessarily believe Lucifer to be Satan or the Devil, but rather, the Morning Star, the embodiment of self-enlightenment. When you think about it "Enlightenment"=Lucifer. You can get into some of the rituals and stuff of Masonry, especially the Black Sacrament, and you come to the conclusion that Masonry is the movement of Lucifer, even if most Masons have no idea.

    They are brought in as long as they believe in god, and as long as they keep to their oaths and keep moving up in degrees, eventually, they are indoctrinated into believing that God is not necessary, because like Lucifer wanted to, we can become our own God.

    Did I fairly represent the position well? Let me know your thoughts.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Libertas Aut Mortis View Post
    Alright, from the links that you have posted and a little bit of independent research, I think I understand "the big picture" of what you are trying to say. Correct me if I am misrepresenting anything.

    Lucifer, or the "Morning Star, the Light Bearer, the Shining One" or whatever translation you choose to use, is the Lucifer of Isaiah 14, who was cast from Heaven because....

    -------------------
    How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!


    For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:


    I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
    ---------------------------

    Lucifer is then equated to Satan or the Devil (whichever name you prefer) by Revelations 12

    ------------------------

    And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


    And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.


    And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
    ---------------------------

    So, in line with Luke 10:18, " I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven"... Lucifer is Satan, and he was cast out of Heaven because he lusted to be God.

    **this is but one interpretation, Luther and Calvin, Augustine of Hippo, ect...even the Latin Vulgate, place Lucifer as lucifer, not being a proper name, but as "morning star" a descriptor for the King of Babylon. The Lucifer = Satan analogy stems greatly from the KJV Only Movement who does draw the connection**

    So, with that all in mind....we get to tying Occultism to Masonry. Lets begin by just ignoring Masonry and focusing on what Occultism is.

    Occultists, influenced by Gnostics, believe either that Lucifer of the Bible is the true God, or they can believe in the traits that Lucifer possess....or some combination. It is a broad range of beliefs.

    Ephesians 2

    ---
    Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:



    Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
    -----
    So the "prince of the power of the air" is represents Lucifer, which presses us into the "desires of the flesh and of the mind".

    Now, to copy and paste from Wikipedia what Luciferianism is...

    ---


    Although sometimes mistakenly associated with Satanism due to the Christian interpretation of the fallen angel, Luciferianism is a wholly different belief system[1] and does not revere the devil figure or most characteristics typically affixed to Satan. Rather, Lucifer in this context is seen as one of many morning stars, a symbol of enlightenment,[2] independence and human progression, and is often used interchangeably with similar figures from a range of ancient beliefs, such as the Greek titan Prometheus or the Jewish talmudic figure Lilith.


    They support the protection of the natural world. Both the arts and sciences are crucial to human development, and thus both are cherished. Luciferians think that humans should be focused on this life and how to make the most of it every single day. The ability to recognize both good and evil, to accept that all actions have consequences, both positive and negative, and to actively influence one's environment, is a key factor.


    For Luciferians, enlightenment is the ultimate goal. The basic Luciferian principles highlight truth and freedom of will, worshipping the inner self and one’s ultimate potential. Traditional dogma is shunned as a basis for morality on the grounds that humans should not need deities or fear of eternal punishment to distinguish right from wrong and to do good. All ideas should be tested before being accepted, and even then one should remain skeptical because knowledge and understanding are fluid. Regardless of whether Lucifer is conceived of as a deity or as a mere archetype, he is a representation of ultimate knowledge and exploration: humanity’s savior and a champion for continuing personal growth.

    ---

    In summation, Lucifer of the Bible was shunned from Heaven for attempting to reach Enlightenment, which is lusting to become God. (Which I personally could then see a tie-in to Original Sin, with man eating of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil at the temptation of Serpent...to tie in with the Revelations "ancient serpent"...meaning Lucifer...meaning that our natural desire for "Knowledge of Good and Evil" as discovered by ourselves (like Adam and Eve believing they had to be clothed) instead of by the commandments of God is the innate desire that we are born with. Human Nature is Luciferian by nature.)

    Occultists and Luciferians embrace Lucifer and what he represents. So the charge is, Masonry, at its core, is Luciferian.

    Honestly, I have come to believe that...in the same way that frowning upon someone who doesn't take their hat off at the dinner table is luciferian if seen in the correct light.

    But Masonry may be more so. Masons do not necessarily believe Lucifer to be Satan or the Devil, but rather, the Morning Star, the embodiment of self-enlightenment. When you think about it "Enlightenment"=Lucifer. You can get into some of the rituals and stuff of Masonry, especially the Black Sacrament, and you come to the conclusion that Masonry is the movement of Lucifer, even if most Masons have no idea.

    They are brought in as long as they believe in god, and as long as they keep to their oaths and keep moving up in degrees, eventually, they are indoctrinated into believing that God is not necessary, because like Lucifer wanted to, we can become our own God.

    Did I fairly represent the position well? Let me know your thoughts.
    Heck if I know. It all, very conveniently, gets very muddled. Add in Sumer, Babylon, the Nephilim, the Anunnaki, the Watchers, Nimrod, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, etc. And your guess may be just as good as mine. Who knows? I'm fairly confident that the local resident RPF Paulinista Mafia will all be very happy to straighten it all out for you.

    Good luck!

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    Out of Rep to give you, sir.

    As a mason myself, I could not have written it better. I would consider myself a Deist in the same vein as those you describe. It is a fruitless endeavor to try and convince someone that freemasonry is NOT devil worship, but alas it can be entertaining.

    Thank you for your kind words...I attempt to refrain from categorizing myself as a Deist, as I believe in Providence, but I must say, this assignment of Ronins has forced me to take a pause and re-evaulate myself, not from a bottom up "Reason first" standpoint, but from a top down "Bible First" standpoint (which is not very typical of myself).

    I'm going to take awhile to reflect on everything, but....follow along with me.

    If we are both unknowingly following Lucifer in pursuit of enlightenment...sure, we may be doing good works and living by the counsel of Jesus (I assume you value the red letters as much as I do and Jefferson did)....yet we may be building our own Tower of Babel, well intentions we may have.

    And if that is true, which I am not entirely sure of at this point (perhaps out of pride), then truly humanity has been duped by Lucifer. Because, while we may be very involved and active in our pursuit of "Good" by routing "Evil", others have no capacity or desire for "Good". They don't even attempt to imitate what they perceive to be God. And though we theoretically do in our pursuit of enlightenment, we are just a few Morning Stars in a Sea of Darkness.

    Free Will is a bitch. I'm going to need to pray about this...I guess thanks Ronin

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Heck if I know. It all, very conveniently, gets very muddled. Add in Sumer, Babylon, the Nephilim, the Anunnaki, the Watchers, Nimrod, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, etc. And your guess may be just as good as mine. Who knows? I'm fairly confident that the local resident RPF Paulinista Mafia will all be very happy to straighten it all out for you.

    Good luck!
    The muddling can indeed get very muddy. Oddly enough, here is a paradox for you.....if I didn't Enlighten myself (Lucifer Tactic) to all of this, I would be in ignorance to Lucifer (assuming the theory stands true-ish), and I would be impaired in my ability to use Free Will to choose the correct path.

    There really is no auto-pilot in this life, in pursuit of doing right, you can do wrong. Hell, perhaps even the pursuit itself is sinful. It's all a muddled cloud of theories that man needs to realize....he can't answer.

    To quote Ben Franklin: tho' it is a Question I do not dogmatise upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble.

    The trick is to not dogmatise or study it ahaha, something that I'm sure we all have a tough time doing
    Last edited by Libertas Aut Mortis; 03-15-2016 at 04:44 PM.

  26. #23
    http://www.masonicdictionary.com/taxil.html

    Also, of consideration is the Taxil Hoax....I haven't delved into it yet...but it seems like it would be highly related and important in disproving the above theory.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Libertas Aut Mortis View Post
    The muddling can indeed get very muddy. Oddly enough, here is a paradox for you.....if I didn't Enlighten myself (Lucifer Tactic) to all of this, I would be in ignorance to Lucifer (assuming the theory stands true-ish), and I would be impaired in my ability to use Free Will to choose the correct path.

    There really is no auto-pilot in this life, in pursuit of doing right, you can do wrong. Hell, perhaps even the pursuit itself is sinful. It's all a muddled cloud of theories that man needs to realize....he can't answer.

    To quote Ben Franklin: tho' it is a Question I do not dogmatise upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble.

    The trick is to not dogmatise or study it ahaha, something that I'm sure we all have a tough time doing
    "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make ye free." .... but first it will really tick ye off.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Libertas Aut Mortis View Post
    http://www.masonicdictionary.com/taxil.html

    Also, of consideration is the Taxil Hoax....I haven't delved into it yet...but it seems like it would be highly related and important in disproving the above theory.
    Happy research and filtering!

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Hah hah...I'll wait on HVACTech to come into the thread and spew some in-sensibilities.

    Read part of this years ago, will have to finish.
    The Constitution on which our Union rests, shall be administered by me [as President] according to the safe and honest meaning contemplated by the plain understanding of the people of the United States at the time of its adoption--a meaning to be found in the explanations of those who advocated, not those who opposed it, and who opposed it merely lest the construction should be applied which they denounced as possible." --Thomas Jefferson: Reply to Address, 1801. ME 10:248

    "On every question of construction carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." --Thomas Jefferson to William Johnson, 1823. ME 15:449
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    The Constitution on which our Union rests, shall be administered by me [as President] according to the safe and honest meaning contemplated by the plain understanding of the people of the United States at the time of its adoption--a meaning to be found in the explanations of those who advocated, not those who opposed it, and who opposed it merely lest the construction should be applied which they denounced as possible." --Thomas Jefferson: Reply to Address, 1801. ME 10:248

    "On every question of construction carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." --Thomas Jefferson to William Johnson, 1823. ME 15:449
    The post-POTUS Jefferson is much different-and much less principled than pre-POTUS Jefferson. Same with the rest. Power corrupts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  32. #28
    President Jefferson was far more Hamiltonian than Jeffersonian
    Last edited by Libertas Aut Mortis; 03-16-2016 at 04:28 AM. Reason: i autocorrected from far to fat....

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Libertas Aut Mortis View Post
    President Jefferson was far more Hamiltonian than Jeffersonian
    http://www.palomar.edu/ehp/history/s...VIEWPOINTS.pdf

    http://citizensoftheamericanconstitu...ns%20Curse.pdf
    Last edited by Ronin Truth; 03-16-2016 at 07:57 AM.

  34. #30
    I know Ronin, I was using hyperbole for a cheap attempt at humour! But, there is a seed of truth in the difference in Jefferson in action vs Jefferson in theory.

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