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Thread: We are in Serious Trouble - Two Hours With Trump Supporters Online

  1. #31
    Many people do not truly know how to debate, they do know how to be mean and argue. The unfortunate result of is is that when someone tries to legitimately debate politics, the methods of their responses will typically first lead into attacking the character of their opponent instead of addressing the ideas presented. The result is name calling and retorts which have absolutely nothing to do with the topic presented. For example, if you dont agree with me on Global Cooling (again, example), then youre an idiot and a conspiracy nut and brainwashed, stupid, uneducated, unwilling to acknowledge the facts, bullheaded, loon, kook, your information comes from people with biased opinions, etc. All of these types of attacks undermine the credibility of the individual, but again, do not address the idea. This leads to some very bad outcomes. Monkey see, monkey do. These types of arguments when heard by the supporters adopt the same tactics since it casts the illusion they are legitimately winning the debate. They are not. All they are doing is Mass Confirmation Bias. He said youre a slut so you must be a slut, then they resort to parroting and repeating what theyve heard. There is a bit of that around here, but I think a lot less than in other places. Many of these tactics are picked up from the MSM by Ambush Journalism. People like Bill O'Reilly win their arguments by talking louder, insulting, and cutting off any guests that dont agree with the opinion presented. This was quite obvious in an ABC interview by David Muir with Tim Cook, president of Apple in regards to "unlocking the iPhone". The questions that Muir presented were loaded and very misleading. Statements such as "the families of the victims", which insinuated that all the families fully supported the FBI, and that is entirely untrue. Several of the families of the victims have come out in support of Apple. This is a manipulation known as "Lying by Omission". The result of this creates the Loaded Question, where if Tim Cook answers in any way that doesnt suport a redirected value of safety over privacy, then Tim Cook looks like an $#@! to the viewers.

    One of the key components of Propaganda is that it has to be short enough to be repeatable by idiots. What youre really arguing with isnt an individual, but a series of responses that exist in the minds of those in the arguments. Its like arguing with someone that is so religious that it takes on an unhealthy mental state that god doesnt exist, to which they will respond "god does exist because the Bible says so". It doesnt matter of god exists or not, the problem Im trying to point out is the method of response is not a conclusion that was drawn by the person that made the statement. They are repeating what they heard. And just so I dont offend the religious people here, I'll present the opposite side of the coin. Argue with an atheist that god does exist and a conditioned response would be "prove it". And again, it isnt because they drew their own conclusion, the phrase "prove it" is a response that they have already heard and agree with. Sadly, it shows that when people argue instead of having meaningful debates, very few original ideas are drawn, as most of the arguments have been preconcluded, which leads to the viral nature of propaganda. If propaganda was not effective, it wouldnt be used.

    There are methods that a person can use to win pretty much any argument, but none of the are exactly what I would deem as moral.
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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    We are in serious trouble as a country.

    I just spent the last two hours engaging Trump supporters in various forums, comment sections, and online venues.

    If you thought the Trump supporters were bad here on RPF, you are sorely mistaken.

    They are ignorant. They don't care about constitutional principles. And they are MEAN. I mean viciously horribly dark and mean.

    I no longer have a horse in this race and I'm not advocating for anyone and I made that clear to everyone I engaged with.

    I was attacked with low information insults from the start. They went after my wife, my kids, my military service, you name it... This is literally an uprising of the ignorant angry masses. They wouldn't hesitate to round up anyone who disagrees with them and imprison them or even kill them. Heck Trump himself has advocated internment camps...

    Trump or Hillary.... this does not end well.

    Edit: I was also very polite and courteous. I was simply debating Trumps policy positions and advocating liberty principles.
    Out of curiosity, which forum(s) were you on?



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  5. #33

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    We are in serious trouble as a country.

    I just spent the last two hours engaging Trump supporters in various forums, comment sections, and online venues.

    You poor soul, why would you ever willingly do that to yourself? You are a bigger man than I.

    If you thought the Trump supporters were bad here on RPF, you are sorely mistaken.

    I've found that the RPF Trump supporters are quite respectful and well meaning. They are lost in this terrible election, just as we all are, and they are turning to who is promising "Hope and Change". Either that or they are hoping that "Making America Great Again" will be the deathsong of the GOP. But I do not think they are delusional like the majority of the Trump supporters out there.

    They are ignorant. They don't care about constitutional principles. And they are MEAN. I mean viciously horribly dark and mean.

    That is more than just Trump fans. That is the state of American Civility. We are a horribly dark and mean people. Sad but true. Moral decay does that to a nation....well, especially to a divided nation.

    I no longer have a horse in this race and I'm not advocating for anyone and I made that clear to everyone I engaged with.

    I do as well, I try to give them the revolutionary idea that it is "okay" not to be 100% for one of two options.

    I was attacked with low information insults from the start. They went after my wife, my kids, my military service, you name it... This is literally an uprising of the ignorant angry masses. They wouldn't hesitate to round up anyone who disagrees with them and imprison them or even kill them. Heck Trump himself has advocated internment camps...

    Low information insults are what they have learned from The Donald himself. Populism takes precedence over Principle. Not having a wife or kids, I obviously have not been attacked in this way; but I was surprised to find that my military service has also been targeted. Something about being called "Obama's Dog" just doesn't sit right with me...I never thought I would hear that from the GOP, which frightens me greatly.

    This is absolutely an uprising of the ignorant angry masses, and such takeovers can often lead to violence. This is *exactly* why the founding fathers advocated so strongly against democracy. The downfall of Ancient Greece is happening here. We have been in transition from Republic to Democracy for awhile...an election fueled in populism could quickly turn to Tyranny of the Majority.


    Trump or Hillary.... this does not end well.

    A part of me is hoping that the Establishment comes in and saves the day with mediocre status quo. One of my friends, who is very, very "conservative" told me the other day "I think I would rather stomach an Obama 3rd Term than let one of these guys win. I'm scared to death of the unknown".

    Edit: I was also very polite and courteous. I was simply debating Trumps policy positions and advocating liberty principles.

    There is no room for debate in a cult of personality.
    I feel your pain!

  6. #34
    They are rabid, because they are fed up with the Obama's, Bush's, McConnell's, Boehner's, Clintons of the world. They are mad as hell, and the more the Washington Mafia attacks Trump, the more rabid support Trump will get.

  7. #35
    I dont think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president, he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. Hes the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  8. #36
    Spartacus had to take on Crassus, he didn't want to be as crass as Crassus. Mr. Donald Trump isn't
    a latterday Spartacus trying to lead his people to freedom up over the Alps. Just pointing this out!!!

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Your next test should be to do the same with Hillary and Bernie supporters.
    When all you can do is offer "whataboutisms" to defend Donald Trump, you have to realize there's a problem at some point.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Antischism View Post
    When all you can do is offer "whataboutisms" to defend Donald Trump, you have to realize there's a problem at some point.
    Who is defending Trump? My point is that there are a bunch of a-holes supporting all of the remaining candidates, and I certainly don't see any reason to exclude Hillary and Sanders from that evaluation.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate. - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Dianne View Post
    They are rabid, because they are fed up with the Obama's, Bush's, McConnell's, Boehner's, Clintons of the world. They are mad as hell, and the more the Washington Mafia attacks Trump, the more rabid support Trump will get.
    Rascally rabid rabbits....

  12. #40



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    Idiocracy is apprepo
    It's apropos that you're too idiotic to know the word "apropos."

  15. #42
    Trump supporters are the new brown shirts.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulGeorge&Ringo View Post
    It's apropos that you're too idiotic to know the word "apropos."
    The four of you need to get over yourselves. The 60's and 70's are long gone.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by farreri View Post
    Trump supporters are the new brown shirts.
    Trump supporters are a response to the concepts of "white privilege", "rape culture" and every other thing feminazis and sjws call "problematic" and "toxic". There has been a lot of bull$#@! going on so what we have here is a pissed off response to it. The media is right to say that the protester at Trump's rally should not have been punched but where was that same media when the Black Lives Matter movement was burning down businesses and looting?

  18. #45
    I'm voting for Trump or Bernie, because I think they will burn this monstrosity to the ground the fastest.

  19. #46
    I'm voting for Trump or Bernie, because........
    Worthy of it's own thread, I am hearing this wherever I post.
    Et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    Of course they are. They're drawing from the same (enormous, majority-sized) pool of people who are sick and tired of the lies and the bull$#@! from the establishment and the fact that the average person has zero say in policy.
    I agree with this assessment. I think the average voter is absolutely sick of the establishment.

    If this election is about anything, it's about a rejection of the establishment.

    Liberty supporters should not place themselves on the tracks of that train.
    I agree that the average voter believes that Bernie and Trump represent the anti-establishment, but are they really anti-establishment? If they are really anti-establishment, why is that automatically good? Trading in one set of tyrants for another is not moving us in a liberty direction. Western history is filled with examples of establishment authoritarians being replaced with anti-establishment authoritarians.

    The correct, strategic position is to bargain with the only one available that can be dealt with at all. We could have wrested some serious concessions, but that window is quickly closing if not already closed.
    I think that strategic bargaining is a fine idea and I think it is something that the liberty movement can improve on. If a candidate is strongly pro second amendment, then lets work with them on that issue. If the candidate is for drug reform, then lets work with them on that issue. However, the voting of the lesser of two evils has been a strategy that has failed and it has been increasingly difficult to tell who is the lesser evil.

    Because too many people who claim to support liberty are all-or-nothing absolutists, nobody else will make any deals with us and we all end up with nothing.
    I agree with this sentiment, just look at all the libertarians who wouldn't back Rand Paul or the ones or would vote for Gary Johnson over Rand Paul. Like Jeffrey Tucker recently said, I'm for whoever will move us in a liberty direction and move closer to the goal of as little government or no government. That said, I don't see how Hillary, Bernie, or Trump is going to move us in a liberty direction.
    Last edited by LibertyExtremist; 03-11-2016 at 10:00 AM. Reason: spelling

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    Could have been the liberty movement benefiting from this popular sentiment, but too many in our ranks were just too special and too important to get their hands dirty interacting with the great unwashed.
    You must be talking about yourself.

    Most people in this forum 'got their hands dirty' talking to people. And the response we were likely to get was, 'I really like the guy, but nobody's heard of him so how can he win?' And they went back to giving themselves ulcers trying to find something to like about one of the evil bastards that the media was giving free publicity to.

    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    All they are doing is Mass Confirmation Bias.
    That's a mighty fancy name for 'doing a lot of trash talking because they don't want to admit to themselves they're scared $#@!less of the sheep dog that's keeping them in the herd.'

    Quote Originally Posted by Dianne View Post
    They are rabid, because they are fed up with the Obama's, Bush's, McConnell's, Boehner's, Clintons of the world. They are mad as hell, and the more the Washington Mafia attacks Trump, the more rabid support Trump will get.
    Butbutbutbutbutbut--the media can't be doing this to help Trump get the GOP nomination, because if they wanted to help Trump they'd talk nice about him. What they're doing is helping Trump, but it looks like what an enemy would do to Trump, and because I'm not smart enough to see that a cynical person could help his friend by going around to his enemies and pretending to be his friend's enemy, the media couldn't possibly be smart enough to think of that either.

    And if you don't agree with that I'll call you names quick, before you rightly point out that I'm an idiot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    The four of you need to get over yourselves. The 60's and 70's are long gone.
    You know, he has insulted more people than all four Beatles combined.

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Human nature got us in this mess to begin with, but it may end up leading us out of the darkness.
    Because the way out of the darkness is to be played by the Establishment into nominating an overgrown version of the Bully of Your Third Grade Class, thus handing the election to Clinton on a silver platter--despite this being a Republican year and Clinton being about as appealing as a used Yugo.

    Yeah, that's going to help.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 03-11-2016 at 10:24 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Lol, wow, Anthony Weiner, too?



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Trump represents a modern-day Spartacus and I'm not one to criticize those followers who lack style points. I will however point them in the right direction.

    Lol...Spartacus....

    Delusions of Grandeur....
    The wisdom of Swordy:

    On bringing the troops home
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are coming home, all the naysayers said they would never leave Syria and then they said they were going to stay in Iraq forever..... just like Trump said.

    On fighting corruption:
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump had to donate the "right way" and hang out with the "right people" in order to do business in NYC and Hollyweird and in order to investigate and expose them.
    Fascism Defined

  24. #50
    Huh. And how many of those Trump supporters do you think see Paul supporters as unflinching pot smokers that refuse to back anyone who doesn't correspond with all of their beliefs or have a Freedom Index score of 90 or higher?

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulGeorge&Ringo View Post
    It's apropos that you're too idiotic to know the word "apropos."
    Exhibit A that Trumpnut suckers have little desire to actually discuss real solutions and political philosophy and are best at Ad hominems.

    Whoops....did I commit an Ad hom?

    Who cares!
    The wisdom of Swordy:

    On bringing the troops home
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are coming home, all the naysayers said they would never leave Syria and then they said they were going to stay in Iraq forever..... just like Trump said.

    On fighting corruption:
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump had to donate the "right way" and hang out with the "right people" in order to do business in NYC and Hollyweird and in order to investigate and expose them.
    Fascism Defined

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    Exhibit A that Trumpnut suckers have little desire to actually discuss real solutions and political philosophy and are best at Ad hominems.

    Whoops....did I commit an Ad hom?

    Who cares!
    Sometimes there's just nothing left to do but fire with fire.

    Or leave the forum and let it burn.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Lol, wow, Anthony Weiner, too?

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Sometimes there's just nothing left to do but fire with fire.

    Or leave the forum and let it burn.
    If they use the term "cuck" or "GOPe", it's a signal that you should just go straight to insults and ridicule, that's all they understand. Keep it 2 syllables or less, or even better, use pics or videos. Trying to have "dialogue" with these people is a waste of time.
    I dont think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president, he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. Hes the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.NoSmile View Post
    Huh. And how many of those Trump supporters do you think see Paul supporters as unflinching pot smokers that refuse to back anyone who doesn't correspond with all of their beliefs or have a Freedom Index score of 90 or higher?
    I imagine that most Trump supporters see us as dangerous isolationists and cheered when Giuliani told Ron Paul to take back his 9/11 comment.
    Stop believing stupid things

  29. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    I imagine that most Trump supporters see us as dangerous isolationists and cheered when Giuliani told Ron Paul to take back his 9/11 comment.
    Most of the establishment believes Trump to be a dangerous isolationist.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Most of the establishment believes Trump to be a dangerous isolationist.
    A lot of establishment figures claim that Obama is an isolationist peacenik.
    Stop believing stupid things



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Most of the establishment believes Trump to be a dangerous isolationist.
    And whose word are we taking for this tidbit, again...?
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Lol, wow, Anthony Weiner, too?

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Most of the establishment believes Trump to be a dangerous isolationist.
    The people that might lose political power and influence think hes dangerous. Trump is not going to give that power back to the people, he is going to use it for himself. That is why many people that advocate liberty see he is dangerous. He is destroying one type of influence and trading it for another type. Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.
    USE THIS SITE TO LINK ARTICLES FROM OLIGARCH MEDIA:http://archive.is/ STARVE THE BEAST.
    More Government = Less Freedom
    Communism never disappeared it only changed its name to Social Democrat
    Emotion and Logic mix like oil and water

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post

    I just spent the last two hours engaging Trump supporters in various forums, comment sections, and online venues.
    What forums were these?

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    Typical conversation with Trump supporters online:

    Me: Trump is actually just as bad as the Democrats and the GOP Establishment (lists many issues where Trump flip-flopped or advocates big government solutions that wouldn't be popular with most Republicans).

    Trump Supporter 1: He's Shaking things up! He's taking on the establishment!

    Trump Supporter 2: He's not perfect, but Ted Cruz is a Canadian! Therefore vote Trump!

    Trump Supporter 3: You are a cuckservative! Look at me, I know a naughty word!

    Trump Supporter 4: (Insert name of terrible establishment figure) is against Trump! Therefore vote Trump!

    Trump Supporter 5: His positions don't matter, the only thing that matters is that he is taking on the establishment!

    Trump Supporter 6: Conservatism and Libertarianism are dead! Nationalist Populism is the way of the future!

    Trump Supporter 7: The people are sick and tired of being lied to by politicians!

    Trump Supporter 8: The people love Trump!

    Me: None of those are valid reasons to vote for Trump.

    Trump Supporter 2: Ted Cruz is ineligible to run for President! Vote Trump!

    Trump Supporter 5: We aren't going to let the media determine who we vote for!

    Trump Supporter 7: Trump is going to make America great again!

    Trump supporter 3: Cuck! Cuck! Cuck! I like saying this word!
    Those appear to be paid trolls probably getting paid 10 cents a post.

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