Sanders supporters lecturing me, a former Soviet citizen, on the glories of Socialism

[timosman]

Garry Kasparov

https://www.facebook.com/GKKasparov/...54026469573307

I'm enjoying the irony of American Sanders supporters lecturing me, a former Soviet citizen, on the glories of Socialism and what it really means! Socialism sounds great in speech soundbites and on Facebook, but please keep it there. In practice, it corrodes not only the economy but the human spirit itself, and the ambition and achievement that made modern capitalism possible and brought billions of people out of poverty. Talking about Socialism is a huge luxury, a luxury that was paid for by the successes of capitalism. Income inequality is a huge problem, absolutely. But the idea that the solution is more government, more regulation, more debt, and less risk is dangerously absurd.

[Todd]

That's golden....

[fisharmor]

Read through the comments... still a lot of mouth breathers replying and repeatedly doing exactly the thing he states, lecturing him on how he doesn't understand socialism.

And those posts have the most likes.





How defensible is the terrain in New Hampshire?

[rprprs]

lol at the Bernie caricature on his facebook page...

[69360]

What the Soviets had wasn't socialism. Every citizen wasn't equal, there was an elite class. What Sanders wants isn't socialism either, he wants democratic socialism. It's kind of apples and oranges.

[rprprs]

What the Soviets had wasn't socialism. Every citizen wasn't equal, there was an elite class. What Sanders wants isn't socialism either, he wants democratic socialism. It's kind of apples and oranges.

Is there a model for this? Not arguing, just asking.

[fisharmor]

Is there a model for this? Not arguing, just asking.

Yes, it can be found here.

[VIDEODROME]

What the Soviets had wasn't socialism. Every citizen wasn't equal, there was an elite class. What Sanders wants isn't socialism either, he wants democratic socialism. It's kind of apples and oranges.

It's a YUGE difference.

[VIDEODROME]

Garry Kasparov

https://www.facebook.com/GKKasparov/...54026469573307

Is there a German Chess Grandmaster who can lecture Trump supporters?


It's a little annoying to scoff at Americans who have no good choices. I mean seriously does Kasparov endorse a specific candidate?

[hells_unicorn]

Is there a German Chess Grandmaster who can lecture Trump supporters?

It's a little annoying to scoff at Americans who have no good choices. I mean seriously does Kasparov endorse a specific candidate?

Why should he have to endorse a specific candidate? How does this add any validity to his point?

[69360]

Is there a model for this? Not arguing, just asking.

Venezuela under Chavez was fairly pure socialism. It failed of course, you always run out of other people's money.

[erowe1]

What the Soviets had wasn't socialism. Every citizen wasn't equal, there was an elite class. What Sanders wants isn't socialism either, he wants democratic socialism. It's kind of apples and oranges.

The idea that every citizen will be equal in socialism is part of its fallaciousness.

You can never have every citizen equal when there is a state, since that state itself must be comprised of a subset of the people who arrogate to themselves power over the rest.

[timosman]

The idea that every citizen will be equal in socialism is part of its fallaciousness.

You can never have every citizen equal when there is a state, since that state itself must be comprised of a subset of the people who arrogate to themselves power over the rest.

This tiny little detail always escapes the proponents of this wonderful system. Another good example is OWS which was easily hijacked as it lacked hierarchy and it was defenseless against rogue agents.

[ChristianAnarchist]

Garry Kasparov

https://www.facebook.com/GKKasparov/...54026469573307

Whatever definition of "socialism" you want to say is "pure" I'm pretty sure the brand that Sanders and crew is promoting is pretty close to what Kasparov used to live under... Disagree??

[hells_unicorn]

Whatever definition of "socialism" you want to say is "pure" I'm pretty sure the brand that Sanders and crew is promoting is pretty close to what Kasparov used to live under... Disagree??

No disagreements here, Sanders gets his rhetoric from the same place that the Bolsheviks got it from, Karl Marx.

[seapilot]

Sanders promotes a "Kinder gentler Socialism". Now get with the program!

[groverblue]

What the Soviets had wasn't socialism. Every citizen wasn't equal, there was an elite class. What Sanders wants isn't socialism either, he wants democratic socialism. It's kind of apples and oranges.

It's a degree of word games...

[timosman]

What the Soviets had wasn't socialism. Every citizen wasn't equal, there was an elite class. What Sanders wants isn't socialism either, he wants democratic socialism. It's kind of apples and oranges.

[CT4Liberty]

What the Soviets had wasn't socialism. Every citizen wasn't equal, there was an elite class. What Sanders wants isn't socialism either, he wants democratic socialism. It's kind of apples and oranges.

There is always an elite class... especially in socialism.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

1
: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2
a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3
: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

In said system... the government is the elite class. They determined how everyone else stays "equal".

[timosman]

[RJ Liberty]

What the Soviets had wasn't socialism. Every citizen wasn't equal, there was an elite class. What Sanders wants isn't socialism either, he wants democratic socialism. It's kind of apples and oranges.

Yes. The Soviets were communists. Democratic Socialism is used throughout Europe, including Scandinavia, Germany, Ireland, and also our neighbor to the north, Canada. The US could actually stand to learn a little from our Canadian neighbors. Universal Health Care didn't cause them to crumble, and Canadians in general feel more free than Americans.

[VIDEODROME]

Why should he have to endorse a specific candidate? How does this add any validity to his point?

It would feel like he has a point if he wants to steer people away from Sanders to what he views as a good choice. I mean it's kind of silly if people listen to him then go support Trump then he's like "No, no you can't support him either he's terrible." then okay go to Cruz and he's like "No, that guy is not good either." and on and on.

[Todd]

Yes. The Soviets were communists. Democratic Socialism is used throughout Europe, including Scandinavia, Germany, Ireland, and also our neighbor to the north, Canada. The US could actually stand to learn a little from our Canadian neighbors. Universal Health Care didn't cause them to crumble, and Canadians in general feel more free than Americans.

There's a thread here where someone can point to all the Canadian license plates you'll see in Northern American hospitals, medical clinics, and gas stations. So "Yay" for their great health care. It's so great, that if they try to come here for a Dr. appointment.

They benefit greatly for having had, for the majority of their history, a neighbor like the U.S. Let's see Canada in a different geopolitical situation and see how well they fare. It won't last forever.....they eventually struggle.

Don't you get tired of trying to define freedom as the "lack of want and need"? Or is freedom not what you're looking for?

[hells_unicorn]

It would feel like he has a point if he wants to steer people away from Sanders to what he views as a good choice. I mean it's kind of silly if people listen to him then go support Trump then he's like "No, no you can't support him either he's terrible." then okay go to Cruz and he's like "No, that guy is not good either." and on and on.

I'd feel like a cheeseburger myself if feeling had anything to do with making a point, I'm more concerned with the content of his point, namely that his experiences give him insights on Sanders' ideology. I don't see how endorsing or not endorsing another candidate affects his point that socialism is destructive, and likewise, I see no rational argument anywhere that he doesn't understand socialism or that Sanders' obfuscated definition of socialism has any relevant difference to Bolshevism.

[Ronin Truth]

Checkmate!

[laurak]

Venezuela under Chavez was fairly pure socialism. It failed of course, you always run out of other people's money.

What will 'democratic' socialism run on? No one sane will volunteer their wealth redistributed, even if it's through democratic means like the one Sanders peddling..

[Ronin Truth]

"All animals are equal. Some animals are more equal than others."

[timosman]

"All animals are equal. Some animals are more equal than others."

I think somebody already said that in this thread. Post #20.

[timosman]

Yes. The Soviets were communists. Democratic Socialism is used throughout Europe, including Scandinavia, Germany, Ireland, and also our neighbor to the north, Canada. The US could actually stand to learn a little from our Canadian neighbors. Universal Health Care didn't cause them to crumble, and Canadians in general feel more free than Americans.

The adjective "democratic" makes it more palatable but it does not change the fundamentals.

[Ronin Truth]

I think somebody already said that in this thread. Post #20.

It bears repeating.