Midlife crisis... going to buy a helicopter...

[ChristianAnarchist]

Update: This is sure taking a lot longer than I'd anticipated. I have over 60 hours now split between my helicopter and Enstrom but the Enstrom time is not real "instruction" time. I go along on a pipeline inspection a couple of times a month and get to fly the helicopter along the route (but no landing or takeoff). These are about 1.8 hours each so that time adds up quickly.

My helicopter was in Florida and I'm near Memphis so I was driving 7.5 hours down there for instruction and then back the next day (got to be a real pain). So a little over a month ago I got my trailer and took the helicopter home and then on to Nashville where there's an instructor who will teach in these homebuilts. I only got to get in one lesson with him before having to get my (other) shoulder operated on for torn rotator cuff. I'm almost back to normal so I'll start up again in a couple of weeks and hopefully get signed off for solo flight at which time I can take it home and fly it every day if I want... Then I'll get a lot of time and hopefully get prepared enough for my check ride. I dread the check ride because they will be quizzing me about all kind of regulations and such which I'm not so great on.

Anyway, I'm having great fun!

[Anti Federalist]

I dread the check ride because they will be quizzing me about all kind of regulations

Because, you know, knowing the CFRs and the rules are more important than, you know, actually flying.

[Matt Collins]

Nice, congrats! Hope the shoulder surgery goes well.


I have completed my PPL, IR, ME and Commercial ratings. I am at 320hrs TT and working towards 1500hrs doing aerial photography. I'm not brave enough to fly helicopters, but it does look like a lot of fun.

[ChristianAnarchist]

Nice, congrats! Hope the shoulder surgery goes well.


I have completed my PPL, IR, ME and Commercial ratings. I am at 320hrs TT and working towards 1500hrs doing aerial photography. I'm not brave enough to fly helicopters, but it does look like a lot of fun.

About the safety of helicopters... I've had mixed feelings about this myself but I have to say that I've had several instructors now who are North of 60 years old and they are still alive with thousands of hours. There really isn't a great deal more "danger" in helicopters than fixed wing if you learn the differences. Of course you don't have much range if your engine quits in a helicopter but you do have the ability to auto-rotate to a near zero airspeed in any open field (yeah, trees are a bummer). The up side is that engine failures are so rare with modern engines that it's very unlikely to ever happen as long as you make sure to watch your fuel usage. Other major concerns are parts breaking in flight which is not going to end well but again, proper inspection and knowledge of your machine go a long way to prevent this...

Anyway, I'd rather go out having fun than sitting in a bed dying of cancer...

[Matt Collins]

Of course you don't have much range if your engine quits in a helicopter but you do have the ability to auto-rotate to a near zero airspeed in any open field (yeah, trees are a bummer). The up side is that engine failures are so rare with modern engines that it's very unlikely to ever happen as long as you make sure to watch your fuel usage.

I feel like fixed wing is much more simple, and intuitive. Also, less work, heh.


And if you lose your engine you have a lot more control about where it will go, especially if you have altitude on your side.

Are all helicopters turbine engines?

[Anti Federalist]

I feel like fixed wing is much more simple, and intuitive. Also, less work, heh.


And if you lose your engine you have a lot more control about where it will go, especially if you have altitude on your side.

Are all helicopters turbine engines?

No, CA's is not, for example, most GA helicopters are piston engine powered.

[Anti Federalist]

Nice, congrats! Hope the shoulder surgery goes well.


I have completed my PPL, IR, ME and Commercial ratings. I am at 320hrs TT and working towards 1500hrs doing aerial photography. I'm not brave enough to fly helicopters, but it does look like a lot of fun.

Good job Matt.

You going airline when you reach 1500?

[Natural Citizen]

This is a cool thread.

[Anti Federalist]

Had a buddy who had one these for a while, got a chance to build some time with him in it.

Most fun I ever had...

[anaconda]

Consider an autogyro:

[ChristianAnarchist]

Had a buddy who had one these for a while, got a chance to build some time with him in it.

Most fun I ever had...

Fun stuff! I rode in a friend's AT-6 one time and that was a blast!

[Matt Collins]

Good job Matt.

You going airline when you reach 1500?

Yep, STARTING FO salary these days is approaching $60k and is forecast to increase over the long term. If I were 10 years younger I would consider doing 135 flying, especially in the Caribbean. But unfortunately I have training debt to pay off and need to get moving on it.

[osan]

Midlife crisis?

It would be more economical to just get some hookers and blow.

Now you're talking!

[ChristianAnarchist]

Yep, STARTING FO salary these days is approaching $60k and is forecast to increase over the long term. If I were 10 years younger I would consider doing 135 flying, especially in the Caribbean. But unfortunately I have training debt to pay off and need to get moving on it.

It's quite interesting when I talk to aviation types about liberty. Even though most are pro-military they also mostly have a negative view of "goonerment" in general. Most seem quite open to the idea that goonerment is bad and increasingly in opposition to liberty... In all I'd say pilots are mostly pro-liberty but they have a big hurdle to overcome in "regulation" of airways.

It's the FAA that I use as the best example of a good reason for goonerment. I point out that we can only guess how aviation would look today with zero regulation. I think we would have our personal flying machines by now and that there would be no need for a central controller of air traffic because a cheap effective collision avoidance system would have been developed by now that would allow everyone to fly where they like with minimal likelihood of a collision (nothing is 100% - certainly not our current system).

[ChristianAnarchist]

Today I had an "issue" with my helicopter which resulted in it being destroyed...

I'm crushed, of course but not physically hurt. I was flying it back from getting fuel at a nearby airport when about 10 minutes into the flight the engine started surging. The throttle became completely unmanageable so I put it into auto-rotation and picked a spot between the trees that looked reasonable from the air. Unfortunately when I got to within 50 feet of landing I saw it was a downhill slope which is not how you want to land a helicopter. I touched down with very little vertical velocity and maybe 10 mph forward speed (which is fine on flat land). Due to the rather steep slope down the helicopter rocked forward and flipped. I walked away but the helicopter needs total rebuild now...

It was always my dream to own my own helicopter and I lived it for a year even though I never quite got my rating. I had just been signed off for solo flight yesterday and today the engine quit and I had to land. The training saved my life as I was able to get it on the ground with no vertical velocity which meant no injuries to me. Now I have to make the decision whether I want to rebuild it or not...

[Anti Federalist]

Today I had an "issue" with my helicopter which resulted in it being destroyed...

I'm crushed, of course but not physically hurt. I was flying it back from getting fuel at a nearby airport when about 10 minutes into the flight the engine started surging. The throttle became completely unmanageable so I put it into auto-rotation and picked a spot between the trees that looked reasonable from the air. Unfortunately when I got to within 50 feet of landing I saw it was a downhill slope which is not how you want to land a helicopter. I touched down with very little vertical velocity and maybe 10 mph forward speed (which is fine on flat land). Due to the rather steep slope down the helicopter rocked forward and flipped. I walked away but the helicopter needs total rebuild now...

It was always my dream to own my own helicopter and I lived it for a year even though I never quite got my rating. I had just been signed off for solo flight yesterday and today the engine quit and I had to land. The training saved my life as I was able to get it on the ground with no vertical velocity which meant no injuries to me. Now I have to make the decision whether I want to rebuild it or not...

Oh $#@!, what a drag...

Glad you are OK, of course, but damn it, that is a whopping expense.

My first guess?

You got a slug of bad fuel.

There may be liability on the FBO's part...?

ETA - If you haven't already, might be good idea to notify the FBO where you got the fuel, if it is bad, maybe prevent somebody else from wrecking.

[ChristianAnarchist]

Oh $#@!, what a drag...

Glad you are OK, of course, but damn it, that is a whopping expense.

My first guess?

You got a slug of bad fuel.

There may be liability on the FBO's part...?

ETA - If you haven't already, might be good idea to notify the FBO where you got the fuel, if it is bad, maybe prevent somebody else from wrecking.

Very good guess. I'm guessing it's a related problem. When we came back to the site with recovery equipment and trailer I noted (and photographed) the one gas cap dangling from it's chain. I thought this is mighty strange since the impact with the ground was very minimal and it didn't even bend the landing struts or do any damage on the belly of the chopper. The only reason there's damage is because it nosed over and the rotors impacted the ground. The movements were slight enough that I did not get a sore neck, sore back or even a scratch (except for the thorns against my bare legs as I hiked out). So why would the cap come lose? Well, it's my fault that I did not check them after fueling (as is common and I usually do). I don't believe the cap was completely lose as then the outside of the polished aluminum tank would show scratches where it was bouncing around. What could have happened is it was put on crooked, with only one dog engaged allowing the fuel to be sucked out the top of the tank as I was flying forward. Since my engine is gravity fed this might have resulted in lower than normal fuel flow to the engine (perhaps after a certain number of gallons were sucked out). None of this can be or will be proven since there was no property damage or injury so we are treating it as an "incident" rather than an accident (no NTSB investigation). Even if I could prove that's what happened one of the guys who helped me recover it was an FBO operator in the past and he stated it's the pilots responsibility to make sure the fueling is done properly. Ultimately I should have checked...

PS. The factory has seen a pic of the damage and they say it might be repaired for a not too insurmountable sum. I will consider it.

[Natural Citizen]

Dang. That sucks. Sorry you lost your heli. You sure were excited about getting it. But you have your life. Good work to that end. We could have been reading a much different headline here. Ya know?

Glad you're safe, man.

[lilymc]

Today I had an "issue" with my helicopter which resulted in it being destroyed...

I'm crushed, of course but not physically hurt. I was flying it back from getting fuel at a nearby airport when about 10 minutes into the flight the engine started surging. The throttle became completely unmanageable so I put it into auto-rotation and picked a spot between the trees that looked reasonable from the air. Unfortunately when I got to within 50 feet of landing I saw it was a downhill slope which is not how you want to land a helicopter. I touched down with very little vertical velocity and maybe 10 mph forward speed (which is fine on flat land). Due to the rather steep slope down the helicopter rocked forward and flipped. I walked away but the helicopter needs total rebuild now...

It was always my dream to own my own helicopter and I lived it for a year even though I never quite got my rating. I had just been signed off for solo flight yesterday and today the engine quit and I had to land. The training saved my life as I was able to get it on the ground with no vertical velocity which meant no injuries to me. Now I have to make the decision whether I want to rebuild it or not...

Yikes, that's scary. I'm sorry to hear that. But I'm glad you're OK!

[Danke]

I would never fly a helicopter unless I was trained to fly one in the military. Or was mega rich to have that kinda training.

[William Tell]

Glad you're OK and you're midlife crises didn't turn to an end of life crises. Sorry about the loss of your machine though.

[Matt Collins]

Today I had an "issue" with my helicopter which resulted in it being destroyed...

I'm crushed, of course but not physically hurt. I was flying it back from getting fuel at a nearby airport when about 10 minutes into the flight the engine started surging. The throttle became completely unmanageable so I put it into auto-rotation and picked a spot between the trees that looked reasonable from the air. Unfortunately when I got to within 50 feet of landing I saw it was a downhill slope which is not how you want to land a helicopter. I touched down with very little vertical velocity and maybe 10 mph forward speed (which is fine on flat land). Due to the rather steep slope down the helicopter rocked forward and flipped. I walked away but the helicopter needs total rebuild now...

It was always my dream to own my own helicopter and I lived it for a year even though I never quite got my rating. I had just been signed off for solo flight yesterday and today the engine quit and I had to land. The training saved my life as I was able to get it on the ground with no vertical velocity which meant no injuries to me. Now I have to make the decision whether I want to rebuild it or not...

WOW! Glad you're ok!


You're a braver man than I am... rotocraft aren't meant to fly, I'll stick with fixed wing.


But I'll be honest, every time I take off, in the back of my mind I am always thinking that I'll have an engine failure below 1000 ft. Statistically probably not, but it always sits in the back of my mind.


Glad you're ok, helicopter crashes are usually particularly brutal.

[Anti Federalist]

Ultimately I should have checked...

That is always the case isn't it? Flying is a very "libertarian" pursuit...it is all on you at the end of the day.

I can see that cap as being the issue as well...you could have sucked fuel out, is the intake air anywhere near there?...you could have been sucking raw fuel into the intake and getting an over-rich condition...could have been vacuum and then pressure causing the surging as the airflow swirled around the cap and tank...or you could have just run low...do you have a cockpit tank gauge?

I learned my lesson once...stabbed the tank drains on the 172 I was flying after fueling and got solid water...almost two gallons in each wing tank.

I read somewhere that of mechanically caused GA incidents and accidents, fuel issues and fuel mismanagement are the leading cause.

PS. The factory has seen a pic of the damage and they say it might be repaired for a not too insurmountable sum. I will consider it

Well, that is good news...hope you can swing it and get airborne again.

[Danke]

That is always the case isn't it? Flying is a very "libertarian" pursuit...it is all on you at the end of the day.

I can see that cap as being the issue as well...you could have sucked fuel out, is the intake air anywhere near there?...you could have been sucking raw fuel into the intake and getting an over-rich condition...could have been vacuum and then pressure causing the surging as the airflow swirled around the cap and tank...or you could have just run low...do you have a cockpit tank gauge?

I learned my lesson once...stabbed the tank drains on the 172 I was flying after fueling and got solid water...almost two gallons in each wing tank.

I read somewhere that of mechanically caused GA incidents and accidents, fuel issues and fuel mismanagement are the leading cause.



Well, that is good news...hope you can swing it and get airborne again.

John Denver died because he didn't understand the fuel system.


oh, and airspeed is life. In a small craft, you can usually walk away dead sticking it in if you know what you are doing.

[oyarde]

Glad you are OK , I bet you can fix it .

[Anti Federalist]

John Denver died because he didn't understand the fuel system.

Yup, that came to mind.

oh, and airspeed is life. In a small craft, you can usually walk away dead sticking it in if you know what you are doing.

Yup, this too.

[ChristianAnarchist]

That is always the case isn't it? Flying is a very "libertarian" pursuit...it is all on you at the end of the day.

I can see that cap as being the issue as well...you could have sucked fuel out, is the intake air anywhere near there?...you could have been sucking raw fuel into the intake and getting an over-rich condition...could have been vacuum and then pressure causing the surging as the airflow swirled around the cap and tank...or you could have just run low...do you have a cockpit tank gauge?

You can bet I'm kicking myself for not checking that cap. Something so damn simple! The intake is quite a way from the tank but I've been researching "gravity fed" systems and you only get about 1 psi fuel pressure for 30" drop and on my system is maybe a 40" drop so 1.25 psi is not a lot of pressure for 180 hp. The system has worked perfectly for about 340 hours (TT Airframe) but with that low of a pressure it wouldn't take very much of an "issue" to cause the pressure to drop to the point that fuel flow gets cut to maybe .5 psi. I would think that trying to feed an engine developing maybe 90 hp at cruise with .5 psi would do just what I experienced. Power cut followed by power surge (as the float bowl gets another gulp of fuel) and instant bowl exhaustion and etc. I reviewed the gopro video and the engine was still running at low speed after I came to rest. I instantly shut off all switches and fuel shut off so the engine was not running for more than maybe 5 seconds lying sideways. I do not have any recollection of the engine running while I was shutting off everything but the audio is there.

I learned my lesson once...stabbed the tank drains on the 172 I was flying after fueling and got solid water...almost two gallons in each wing tank.

I read somewhere that of mechanically caused GA incidents and accidents, fuel issues and fuel mismanagement are the leading cause.

Yup. Fuel exhaustion is one of my pet peeves even. For that reason I never feel comfortable with less than 1/2 tanks. Even when I bought this chopper there was another fuel injected version right next to it but I wanted the fuel management to be as simple as possible so I opted for gravity fed...

[donnay]

Just glad you are alright. The copter can be replaced, you cannot.

[Matt Collins]

I learned my lesson once...stabbed the tank drains on the 172 I was flying after fueling and got solid water...almost two gallons in each wing tank.

In my limited time of flying so far, (I have 485 hrs TT), I have TWICE had an FBO fuel guy not put the fuel caps back on correctly on a 172

[Anti Federalist]

You can bet I'm kicking myself for not checking that cap. Something so damn simple! The intake is quite a way from the tank but I've been researching "gravity fed" systems and you only get about 1 psi fuel pressure for 30" drop and on my system is maybe a 40" drop so 1.25 psi is not a lot of pressure for 180 hp. The system has worked perfectly for about 340 hours (TT Airframe) but with that low of a pressure it wouldn't take very much of an "issue" to cause the pressure to drop to the point that fuel flow gets cut to maybe .5 psi. I would think that trying to feed an engine developing maybe 90 hp at cruise with .5 psi would do just what I experienced. Power cut followed by power surge (as the float bowl gets another gulp of fuel) and instant bowl exhaustion and etc. I reviewed the gopro video and the engine was still running at low speed after I came to rest. I instantly shut off all switches and fuel shut off so the engine was not running for more than maybe 5 seconds lying sideways. I do not have any recollection of the engine running while I was shutting off everything but the audio is there.

Yup, we're on the same page here, that was my thinking as well...

Damn, I am sorry brother, but I hope you can get everything back together.

When you do, a big red addition to the preflight check list: Check that fuel caps are secured properly and tight.

Yup. Fuel exhaustion is one of my pet peeves even. For that reason I never feel comfortable with less than 1/2 tanks. Even when I bought this chopper there was another fuel injected version right next to it but I wanted the fuel management to be as simple as possible so I opted for gravity fed...

Post incident, were you able to get an accurate accounting of how much fuel was in that tank?