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Thread: The Mission Advancement Framework - A new site initiative!

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Xerographica View Post
    I'm shadowbanned
    Is that anything like this?

    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.



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  3. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Idiom
    The joy of the NAP it that it is 100% about interpretation. [...]
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Of course it is. So what? There is not nor can there be any ethical precept about which this is not true.
    As is the case for all human verbal activity. Interpretation is the very essence of language.


    The NAP is corollary, not "primary" - i.e., application of the NAP necessarily presupposes answers to questions such as "what is property and how can it be acquired?" and "what is violence and when may it be used?" But the fact that there are disagreements among exponents of the NAP concerning the answers to such questions does not stand as a sensible criticism of the NAP per se. All socio-political "isms" (not just those that incorporate the NAP) must address such questions - and proponents of those "isms" are just as prone to "internal" disagreements over the answers. Socialists, for example, may dispute among themselves over what is "capital" and what is not ... or Constitutionalists may dispute among themselves over who is a "natural-born citizen" and who is not ... or etc., etc., etc. Any "ism" that does not exhibit such so-called "schisms" is either very small or very sterile or both ...
    Sort, sweet, and brilliantly expressed.

    Cough up the rep, you stingy bastards. This one's worth the expenditure.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  4. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumba of Liberty View Post
    We need core principles in an easy to read, understandable format for the masses. Along with our message of ending the wars (War on Terror & War on Drugs) we need a list of principles that appeals to both red team and blue team. Here is my attempt:

    The Five Steps to a Free Country

    1. Fight Corporate Privilege. End limited liability protections and corporate personhood. Hold shareholders accountable for the actions and crimes of their corporations. End corporate welfare by abolishing subsidies and restoring market competition. In a free country, corporations do not have more power than individuals.

    2. Fight the Wall Street Banking Cartel. End the Fed and the Fractional-Reserve Banking system that causes the boom-bust cycle while enriching the 1%. Allow currencies to compete by recognizing the Right of all free people to choose the currencies they trade and save in. Remove all legal tender laws and taxes on commodities restoring a true free-market to our money. In a free country, banks and governments cannot print money from thin air.

    3. Return Justice to the Justice System. Recognize the Right of defense attorneys and the accused to use all evidence and testimony available to them in their defense, including arguments based on Natural Law. Restore the Right of Jury Nullification which allows the jury to protect people from unconstitutional laws that violate their Natural Rights and set them free. In a free country, only citizens send criminals to jail, never government employees.

    4. Protect the Environment by Protecting your Environment. Allow landowners to sue anyone, including corporations, who pollute their air, water or soil. Remove property taxes & regulations so people can truly own their land, pass it to their children, invest in making improvements and create an incentive toward sustainability for the long-term. Redefine land ownership to allow all neglected public and private land to be settled and claimed by individuals which make improvements to the land without fees or taxes. The term "improvement" shall be defined in court by a jury of peers. In a free country, land is only owned when used.

    5. Reestablish the Right to Choose your Government. The Declaration of Independence is right when it states that A. All men are created equal B. All men have Natural Rights C. The governments role is to protect your Natural Rights D. If the government does not protect your Natural Rights, you have the Right to alter or abolish your government. Any group of people, anywhere and in any number, that demands independence from their country has the Right to declare independence and attempt to make their own way in the world and just maybe, through trial and error, make a better world for their children. In a free country, you have the right to declare independence, at any time for any reason.

    Say these five points over and over and over...

    And I don't think we can lose.
    One step to a free land: understand, accept, and respect human rights.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  5. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    As is the case for all human verbal activity. Interpretation is the very essence of language.




    Sort, sweet, and brilliantly expressed.

    Cough up the rep, you stingy bastards. This one's worth the expenditure.
    The differences are massive and the language is very precise. The differences are quite different in nature and explain a lot of why libertarians cannot agree on anything.

    Under Rothbardian definitions most so called "rights" disappear. Not right to travel, no right to privacy, no IP, no right to self-defense, and no right to life. There is a right to retaliation against a very limited set of offenses against a very limited set of personal property. However there isn't even a clear natural right to retaliate for murder.

    Beyond that it tries to be a complete moral code and an incomplete moral code depending on which conversation it is having. Even Rothbard admitted it only makes sense in the context of mid-western christian culture, yet the system claims to be the arbiter of right and wrong, giving one permission to kill for its beliefs and only for its beliefs among other extremely strong claims.

    It is non-sensical and self-contradictory in a lot of ways. Which side of a contradiction one chooses is a big driver of the disagreements.

    It is very much a naive moral theory which has as its main support theoretical economic outcomes. Its an attempt at moral philosophy by free-market economists who largely missed the strength of the claims they were making and took a vast set of principles as given, even though it was really part of hodgepodge of religious and cultural tradition.

    You see this revert in a lot of discussion. Defense of an argument melts down to "common sense" or "common law" or something else from history or tradition despite claims that everything springs from deep and solid "axioms".

    Fraud is somehow definitely BAD under the NAP yet never clearly gets shown to spring from the axioms. Most fraud is based in information, but information isn't a category of property.

    Even trademarks aren't a thing. If it is permissible to borrow the entire identity of someone else, trade as them and represent your products as theirs, then how does any normal notion of fraud exist?

    Murder is one of the more interesting difficulties, in that as soon as a person is dead, the victim no longer exists. No victim, no crime. There are volumes of work trying to weasel out of this one, but it never really works.

    This is before all the ridiculous added moral duties that show up despite all the claims that others can't have moral claims on you or your property. Hoarding unused or unwanted property is a common one. Advocates claim you have to advertise and actively give access to potential property that you are not using. The donut theory of land use. There is no right to travel unless somebody isn't using their land enough, then they have a moral duty to inform you and let you get to it???

    The concepts around water rights and other things are equally nonsensical. I like to illustrate this with thought experiment of a prospector in space who sets up shop harvesting unused photons being emitted by the Sun. If the prospector harvests all the photons that would otherwise reach Earth before they do so, he or she is interacting only with unclaimed photons. The Earth freezes and everyone on it dies without the NAP once being violated. I am yet to see an explanation by anyone as to how fresh photons in deep space have had work mixed with them in any way before they reach Earth.

    The NAP is an interesting rule of thumb, but comes apart when taken seriously or literally.
    In New Zealand:
    The Coastguard is a Charity
    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
    The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
    5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
    A tax return has 4 fields
    Business licenses aren't a thing
    Prostitution is legal
    We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care

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