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Thread: Bill Kristol: after tonight's debate, me and my friends would rather have Clinton than Trump

  1. #1

    Bill Kristol: after tonight's debate, me and my friends would rather have Clinton than Trump




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  4. #3
    I would say Kristol has always been a clinton voter.

  5. #4
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    This is a great sign. Trump isn't what we had in mind when we started the R3VOLUTION, but this is one of the results that I wanted. Send the neocons back to the Democrat party. I don't know that there is any other candidate running that could have this affect on the neocons.
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  6. #5
    By which he means Trump won't send US army to fight another stupid war for Israel. What more do you need?

    I wish Rand would have been more like Trump in debates. He allowed neocons to intimidate him.

  7. #6
    i still hate Trump but its fun seeing neocons like Kristol squirm into fetal position.

  8. #7
    This should speak volumes. Kristol is definitely not an advocate of Liberty.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  9. #8
    I suppose this is because of Trump calling the Iraq war a "big, fat mistake" and saying 9/11 still happened under Bush?



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  11. #9
    Remember, these $#@!s have nothing better to do than dream up ways to fool you. This could just as well be a play for your support for Trump (the neo-cons are well aware of our disdain for them) as it is Kristol having a hissie fit.

  12. #10
    Even more troubling is the revelation that Kristol might have "friends".

  13. #11
    This is a huge plus for Trump as far as I am concerned...maybe I will vote for him afterall.

  14. #12
    Kristol is square in the middle of Clinton's natural constituency - corrupt, evil, warmonger, elitist, left-wing servant of the oligarchy.

  15. #13
    I'm still not planning on voting for Trump, but I have to say that Kristol is lying his ass off, he'd never have voted for anybody advocating the type of foreign policy that Trump has been paying lip-service to lately. Granted, if I'm wrong and Trump is serious about some of the things he's said and isn't a Clinton plant, I won't complain when he does something good while in office.

    P.S. - If Trump does manage to drive the Neo-cons out of the GOP, he won't be destroying the GOP as some have suggested, but rather he will have saved it from eventual destruction.

  16. #14
    let me see if I can muster the enthusiasm to roll my eyes

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

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  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    This should speak volumes. Kristol is definitely not an advocate of Liberty.
    Or of the American people.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    By which he means Trump won't send US army to fight another stupid war for Israel. What more do you need?

    I wish Rand would have been more like Trump in debates. He allowed neocons to intimidate him.

    He tried to win them over!! Crucial mistake.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by misterx View Post
    Or of the American people.
    Indeed.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  21. #18
    entirely predictable, this is why I like Trump

    he will send the neocons back from whence they came

    this two party dictatorship needs to be blown up for there ever to be any progress

  22. #19

    Don't Be Fooled

    Quote Originally Posted by jkob View Post
    entirely predictable, this is why I like Trump

    he will send the neocons back from whence they came

    this two party dictatorship needs to be blown up for there ever to be any progress
    Trump is a dictator. Being anti-establishment does not make one pro-freedom.
    "Then David said to the Philistine, 'You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of Yahweh of hosts, the God of the battle lines of Israel, Whom you have reproached.'" - 1 Samuel 17:45

    "May future generations look back on our work and say that these were men and women who, in moment of great crisis, stood up to their politicians, the opinion-makers, and the Establishment, and saved their country." - Dr. Ron Paul

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    Trump is a dictator. Being anti-establishment does not make one pro-freedom.
    Indeed, but the real problem is that the American voter isn't pro-freedom, which is why we're in this situation.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    Trump is a dictator. Being anti-establishment does not make one pro-freedom.
    Truer words were never spoken...

    But consider this.

    Establishment= Tyranny
    Trump=Anti-Establishment Tyranny

    Once that Establishment is destroyed...and once Trumps Reign of Terror is over...then what?

    What do we do when those pressures are finally gone? We lead a movement towards Liberty; thats what we do.

    We wont be getting a Liberty President this cycle; so lets plan on how we can absolutely destroy the current political system for the next go around.

    Some just want to watch the world burn...others burn it down to rebuild.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    Trump is a dictator. Being anti-establishment does not make one pro-freedom.
    Playing Devil's advocate here, at least Trump appears to be loyal to the United States, something that cannot be said for any of the other candidates save perhaps the unknown loyalties of Carson. Given the wholesale treason that runs rampant through fed.gov, that's not nothing.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    Trump is a dictator. Being anti-establishment does not make one pro-freedom.
    Trump is a dictator because why? How is he any worse than someone like Hillary, Dubya, Obama, Rubio, etc who are owned by the special interests?

    Like I said, one of these people are going to be president like it or not...

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by jkob View Post
    Trump is a dictator because why? How is he any worse than someone like Hillary, Dubya, Obama, Rubio, etc who are owned by the special interests?

    Like I said, one of these people are going to be president like it or not...
    From what I've seen of Trump, it's not really a matter of Trump being worse than these others, but more so trying to see how he is better than any of them. And just like Cruz, there are authenticity issues with Trump given how many times he's changed his mind. If he isn't any better than the rest, I see no point in staining my conscience by voting for him, though I think I'm prepared to tolerate the idea of him being in office provided he is checked by congress.

    Technically speaking, the presidency has been gradually morphing into a dictatorial office for about 150 years, and I don't see Trump doing anything to reverse this.



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  29. #25

    Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by jkob View Post
    Trump is a dictator because why? How is he any worse than someone like Hillary, Dubya, Obama, Rubio, etc who are owned by the special interests?

    Like I said, one of these people are going to be president like it or not...
    I say Trump is a dictator precisely because of his personality. He is egotistical, unrepentant, and brash, all of those traits which makes it hard for one to submit to the rule of law (as, in this case, under the Constitution). Trump is the type of candidate who will create more executive orders, if they suit his personal tastes (especially in terms of taking property from one group and giving it to another, as in eminent domain). And on top of that, Trump is almost the epitome of "American Exceptionalism," that is, the idea that he can do no wrong because everything he does is towards the goal of "winning."

    So, Trump is just as worse as any of the other candidates in the race, but for different reasons. It also doesn't help that the mainstream media is painting him as some sort of anti-establishment candidate, when he has been close to the establishment all of his business life (especially on the Democrat side). If Trump is nominated and elected, he will continue the status quo because he has always benefited from the status quo.
    "Then David said to the Philistine, 'You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of Yahweh of hosts, the God of the battle lines of Israel, Whom you have reproached.'" - 1 Samuel 17:45

    "May future generations look back on our work and say that these were men and women who, in moment of great crisis, stood up to their politicians, the opinion-makers, and the Establishment, and saved their country." - Dr. Ron Paul

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    I say Trump is a dictator precisely because of his personality. He is egotistical, unrepentant, and brash, all of those traits which makes it hard for one to submit to the rule of law (as, in this case, under the Constitution). Trump is the type of candidate who will create more executive orders, if they suit his personal tastes (especially in terms of taking property from one group and giving it to another, as in eminent domain). And on top of that, Trump is almost the epitome of "American Exceptionalism," that is, the idea that he can do no wrong because everything he does is towards the goal of "winning."

    So, Trump is just as worse as any of the other candidates in the race, but for different reasons. It also doesn't help that the mainstream media is painting him as some sort of anti-establishment candidate, when he has been close to the establishment all of his business life (especially on the Democrat side). If Trump is nominated and elected, he will continue the status quo because he has always benefited from the status quo.
    You can't say someone would be a dictator because of their personality, that's ludicrous.

    Why would he run just to continue the status quo? He would be better off to continue running his businesses. Just running for office has cost him more money than you could dream of, and his time in office should he win will cost him exponentially more in lost opportunities. What you're saying just isn't logical.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    I say Trump is a dictator precisely because of his personality. He is egotistical, unrepentant, and brash, all of those traits which makes it hard for one to submit to the rule of law (as, in this case, under the Constitution). Trump is the type of candidate who will create more executive orders, if they suit his personal tastes (especially in terms of taking property from one group and giving it to another, as in eminent domain). And on top of that, Trump is almost the epitome of "American Exceptionalism," that is, the idea that he can do no wrong because everything he does is towards the goal of "winning."

    So, Trump is just as worse as any of the other candidates in the race, but for different reasons. It also doesn't help that the mainstream media is painting him as some sort of anti-establishment candidate, when he has been close to the establishment all of his business life (especially on the Democrat side). If Trump is nominated and elected, he will continue the status quo because he has always benefited from the status quo.
    One, how do you know Trump's personality? Unless you know the person then I don't know how you can make that judgement. Second, I don't buy into this media characterization of what a dictatorship or dictator is because the whole point of that is to promote and sell our military-industrial complex. The greatest threats to liberty in my lifetime in this country have all graded pretty well on personality at least according to the media, Clinton/Dubya/Obama all seem much more underhanded and scary to me. This fluffy compassionate PC conservative crap is more deceptive than anything, I find the whole rehearsed politician act to be offensive.

  32. #28
    Obama is the dictator.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  33. #29

    You Do Err

    Quote Originally Posted by misterx View Post
    You can't say someone would be a dictator because of their personality, that's ludicrous.

    Why would he run just to continue the status quo? He would be better off to continue running his businesses. Just running for office has cost him more money than you could dream of, and his time in office should he win will cost him exponentially more in lost opportunities. What you're saying just isn't logical.
    Of course you can know that someone will be a dictator by his own personality because of a simple truism: belief determines behavior. In fact, our Founding Fathers believed that if a person's morals were corrupt, then his policies would be corrupt, too. More importantly, God tells us that you can know whether a person is good or bad by his fruit (cf. Matthew 7:20; Luke 6:45). So, it is not ludicrous at all.

    Your second point truly misses the reality of the current state of our federal government, for it is filled with wealthy people who sit in seats of office. And why is that? It is because of power. No one runs for office to make money; it is always about power (whether that power should be preserved to the states and people, or relegated to the federal government). The reason why Trump is running for office is simply for power, which feeds into his own personality.
    "Then David said to the Philistine, 'You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of Yahweh of hosts, the God of the battle lines of Israel, Whom you have reproached.'" - 1 Samuel 17:45

    "May future generations look back on our work and say that these were men and women who, in moment of great crisis, stood up to their politicians, the opinion-makers, and the Establishment, and saved their country." - Dr. Ron Paul

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive View Post
    i still hate Trump but its fun seeing neocons like Kristol squirm into fetal position.
    Yeah. Its amusing to watch the enemies of my enemies tick each other off. Sadly, I grow quite weary of getting hit by the shrapnel.

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