ALERT! The 4 hold outs are being confronted with force! - LIVE STREAM

[Deborah K]

The feds were in the process of serving the 2014 warrants in NV, it is possible they went to OR and started this occupation to throw a monkeywrench into the machine.

Ryan Payne anyone??? Why haven't we heard from him?

[GunnyFreedom]

We've all known the day would come when $#@! would hit the fan. We can armchair quarterback this $#@! until kingdom come. Or we can figure out what to do next. Or we can sit back like cowards and watch as real people who were willing to do something lose their lives and their freedom.

I'm sure the dumping of tea wasn't a big hit back in the day either.

So you think just because someone does something that automagically makes that something good?

[presence]

Four Remaining Oregon Occupiers, Surrounded by FBI, Surrender NBCNews.com - ‎4 hours ago‎ The four remaining occupiers at an Oregon wildlife refuge surrendered Thursday morning after hours of tense negotiations, bringing an end to the weeks-long protest over land rights and personal liberties. Federal officials said Jeff Banta, Sean ... Final Oregon occupiers surrender to authorities, ending the refuge siege Washington Post - ‎39 minutes ago‎ BURNS, Ore. — After 41 days, the armed occupation of a rural Oregon wildlife refuge ended peacefully here Thursday as the last four anti-government activists surrendered to FBI agents, following a dramatic and emotional hour-long negotiation with the ... Last four occupiers surrender at Oregon wildlife refuge, ending 41-day standoff Reuters - ‎2 hours ago‎ After Cliven Bundy's arrest, three of four remaining occupiers surrendered to the FBI at the urging of Nevada state Assemblywoman Michele Fiore and Rev. Franklin Graham, the son of Christian evangelist Billy Graham. Fiore and Franklin Graham both ... Oregon Standoff Ends as Last Refuge Occupiers Surrender TIME - ‎4 hours ago‎ Fry was the last holdout to surrender around 2 p.m. on Thursday, following FBI negotiations. “Unless my grievances are heard, I will not come out,” he had said over a livestream of those negotiations. Authorities had moved in to end the long-running ... Oregon standoff: 4 holdouts all in FBI custody as occupation ends (live updates) OregonLive.com - ‎7 hours ago‎ The four remaining occupiers of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge surrendered Thursday morning, bringing an end to the standoff on its 41st day. Jeff Banta, Sean Anderson, Sandy Anderson and David Fry were taken into FBI custody. Fry was the last to ... Oregon standoff: All occupiers surrender; Cliven Bundy arrested CNN - ‎1 hour ago‎ On February 3, a federal grand jury indicted 16 people, including the four who surrendered, the FBI said. The other 12 people indicted are Dylan Wade Anderson, 34, of Provo, Utah; Brian Cavalier, 44, of Bunkerville, Nevada; Shawna Cox, 59, Kanab, Utah; ... Last Occupiers of Oregon Wildlife Refuge Surrender to FBI ABC News - ‎4 hours ago‎ Surrounded by FBI agents in armored vehicles, the last four occupiers of a national nature preserve surrendered Thursday, and a leader in their movement who organized a 2014 standoff with authorities was criminally charged in federal court. The ... Four Oregon occupiers surrender to FBI; final man threatened suicide before leaving Washington Times - ‎4 hours ago‎ At various points, Mr. Fry said he worried about being raped in prison and railed against the FBI for refusing to give him marijuana. Ultimately, he gave himself up to authorities, roughly an hour after the surrender of his three fellow protesters ... The End of the Oregon Standoff The Atlantic - ‎4 hours ago‎ Fry was the lone holdout for part of Thursday after his three companions surrendered to the FBI earlier. Speaking via telephone to his supporters, in a conversation that was broadcast online, Fry appeared to be disturbed over a variety of issues ... Rev. Franklin Graham to Meet With Oregon Occupiers Before FBI Surrender WLOS - ‎16 hours ago‎ BURNS, OR -- Armed occupiers of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon have said they will turn themselves in Thursday morning, ending a more than month-long standoff. On Wednesday night, the FBI released a statement saying they had ... Oregon standoff is OVER after last occupiers surrender to the FBI Daily Mail - ‎3 hours ago‎ A Nevada lawmaker has been key in getting that agreement. Michele Fiore is also a friend of the Bundy family. She came to Portland on Wednesday to show support for Ammon Bundy. When she heard the FBI had surrounded the refuge, she called into the ... Last occupiers of Oregon wildlife refuge surrender to FBI officials KGO-TV - ‎17 minutes ago‎ The last occupier of the Oregon wildlife refuge says he turned himself in to FBI officials a couple of hours after three others walked out. The holdouts were the last remnants of the group that seized the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge on Jan. 2 and ... Oregon standoff ends as last four occupiers surrender to FBI MarketWatch - ‎1 hour ago‎ The final four armed occupiers who had remained inside a national wildlife refuge in Oregon surrendered peacefully Thursday morning, ending a tense standoff that lasted 41 days. The Federal Bureau of Investigation tightened its dragnet around the four ... Last of four occupiers surrender to FBI at Oregon refuge abc27 - ‎3 hours ago‎ Fry, whose behavior throughout the occupation has been erratic, began yelling at the FBI and refused to surrender “unless my grievances are heard.” He listed paying taxes as one of his chief grievances, and wanted “to find a way to stop paying taxes ... Oregon standoff: 3 of 4 occupiers surrender to FBI WGN-TV - ‎4 hours ago‎ PORTLAND, Or. -- Three of the four remaining occupiers at the Malheur Wildlife Refuge's headquarters in Harney County, Oregon, surrendered Thursday after 41 days, according to David Fry, the lone holdout, speaking on a live streamed phone call. Last of four occupiers surrender to FBI at refuge WCBD News 2 - ‎4 hours ago‎ David Fry (left) and Sean Anderson, Sandy Anderson are 3 of the 4 militants remaining at the Malheur refuge. (YouTube/Facebook). BURNS, Ore. (KOIN) — The last of the four occupiers at the Malheur Wildlife Refuge surrendered to the FBI on Thursday ... Oregon standoff: deal to surrender after night of frantic negotiations The Guardian - ‎7 hours ago‎ The armed militia occupying a wildlife refuge in Oregon said they would surrender to the FBI in front of the world's media on Thursday, after several hours of tense and at times frantic negotiations that were broadcast live on YouTube. The four ... Final Oregon Refuge Occupiers Surrender After Tense Standoff With FBI BuzzFeed News - ‎1 hour ago‎ All four remaining holdouts at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge surrendered on Thursday — though one, David Fry, was involved in a tense standoff. During negotiations, Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy was charged with assault in Las Vegas. Originally ... Final holdout at Ore. refuge surrenders after dramatic negotiations USA TODAY - ‎15 hours ago‎ David Fry, 27, speaking by cellphone on an open line broadcast on YouTube, said he was "feeling suicidal" only moments after his three companions peacefully surrendered to the FBI and a group of negotiators led by evangelist Franklin Graham. Cliven Bundy arrested in Portland as Oregon occupiers say they will surrender Washington Post - ‎20 hours ago‎ 26, when the rest of the occupiers voluntarily left and surrendered to law enforcement. Defying calls to stand down from Oregon officials, law enforcement, Harney County locals and even a Bundy, they've remained holed up inside the FBI blockade. In ... Oregon militia standoff: dramatic final surrender at wildlife refuge – live The Guardian - ‎5 hours ago‎ The Oregon militia standoff appears to have come to an end with the final four occupiers surrendering to FBI officials surrounding the Malheur national wildlife refuge. Three occupiers – Jeff Banta, 46, of Elko, Nevada and Sean Anderson, 47, and his ... Last Oregon federal building protesters surrender to FBI First Coast News - ‎1 hour ago‎ BURNS, Ore. -- The last of the four holdouts at the Malheur refuge have surrendered without incident to the police. David Fry was holding out for several hours. As of shortly before 10 a.m. local time, he was telling live to Gavin Seim, a blogger, that ... Last four occupiers at Oregon refuge surrender, taken into FBI custody UPI.com - ‎4 hours ago‎ David Fry, speaking during a YouTube live stream, said he was "feeling suicidal" moments after his counterparts surrendered to the FBI at Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in southeastern Oregon. Fry said his biggest fear about surrendering was being ... Last protester at OR wildlife refuge surrenders to FBI Tucson News Now - ‎4 hours ago‎ "It has never been the FBI's desire to engage these armed occupiers in any way other than through dialogue, and to that end, the FBI has negotiated with patience and restraint in an effort to resolve the situation peacefully. However, we reached a ... Final Oregon militia member David Fry surrenders to FBI after threatening to kill himself as 41-day occupation concludes New York Daily News - ‎4 hours ago‎ The final member of the so-called Oregon militia occupying a wildlife refuge surrendered Thursday after threatening to kill himself, a tense situation that was broadcast live online. The occupation lasted for 41 days. David Fry, 27, an Ohio resident ... Three of Four Oregon Protesters Surrender to FBI TRUNEWS - ‎5 hours ago‎ Negotiations continued past 8 a.m. PST, the time protesters previously said they planned to surrender to the FBI. The occupiers say they will surrender Thursday morning. The remaining holdouts have offered to surrender themselves to Rev. Franklin Graham. All remaining Oregon protesters surrender to FBI KETV Omaha - ‎4 hours ago‎ The 41-day standoff at an Oregon wildlife refuge took a dramatic turn Thursday when three of the four remaining occupiers surrendered, according to David Fry, the last occupier. Fry, speaking on a live streamed phone call, said he was the last holdout. FBI Arrests Cliven Bundy; Final Oregon Militiamen Surrender Daily Caller - ‎8 hours ago‎ Bundy was booked at Multnomah County Jail just before 11:00 pm, and shortly after, FBI agents forced the last four holdouts at Malheur National Wildlife Refuge to surrender, “by hemming them in with armored vehicles,” reports USA Today. “We reached a ... Three Malheur Refuge Occupiers Surrender To FBI. One “Declares War.” Bearing Arms - ‎5 hours ago‎ Sean and Sandy Anderson were the first to walkout and surrendered to the FBI this morning at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. Sandy answer was patted down, and peacefully taken into custody, followed by her husband. The rants from the Andersons ...

[Deborah K]

So you think just because someone does something that automagically makes that something good?

No, I don't. But what's done is done. And we know where these people are coming from better than most. Our thoughts and prayers are with them because we know what they are feeling about what's happening to our country. And because of that, I don't see the point in continuing on with the "I told ya so" blather. I love you, Glen. I do. But please stop.

[phill4paul]

I don't think anyone will ever do anything the "right way" when so many people have differing opinions on what the right thing is.

So while some people might think that voting harder is the right thing, others may feel like they have no choice but to take things into their own hands. People sitting at home on their comfy couch in their comfy row house maybe don't understand what it's like to try to be a rancher where you have to try to comply with a government who is trying to eradicate your way of life. Some of these people have watched where land that was used for generations for ranching have turned into a beauracratic nightmare and no trespassing zones. The amount of federal land ownership in NV alone is staggering and it makes sense that people who have generations upon generations of land use there feel like it's been stolen from them.

So while some people think these ranchers are nutjobs and extremists, others might not think they are doing enough. In the midst of all that, it becomes really hard to really fully appreciate the magnitude of balls it takes to actually stand up and use your life as a sacrifice to make a statement.

Id rather not dabble in whether these people "did this" the right way, but remember that courage is standing up and doing what is necessary, putting your own self aside, even when you are standing alone.

God bless this man, and everyone who also stood up with him.

Many good points. +rep.

[Ender]

So you think just because someone does something that automagically makes that something good?

No- but it doesn't automatically make it bad either.

And, in both of the encounters, the occupiers were traveling to or waiting for a peaceful meeting about the situation. Sounds like peaceful solutions are too much for the alphabets to bear- gotta have "violence" to prove their righteousness.

[Deborah K]

Shawna Cox will be next because she was also in the car with Victoria, Ryan, and LaVoy. Mark McConnell, if he is real, will be next too. If his ass doesn't get thrown in jail with the rest then my guess about him is accurate.

[Deborah K]

Blain Cooper btw, is arrested as well as of this morning. Now that everyone is so relieved that the terrorists that have savaged the refuge are gone, let's hard drive this gem:

[phill4paul]

So you think just because someone does something that automagically makes that something good?

No, Glen, it doesn't automatically make it good. In fact it can be absolutely terrible. While I may differ in opinion, and in this I do, I won't condemn anyone for the choices they make. They were merely doing something they felt they needed to do in their heart. And there is nothing wrong with that. But unless one can marry heart and mind then the goals one attains for cannot be reached. If anything I have sympathy for them. They attempted to do something the only way they knew how.

[GunnyFreedom]

No, I don't. But what's done is done. And we know where these people are coming from better than most. Our thoughts and prayers are with them because we know what they are feeling about what's happening to our country. And because of that, I don't see the point in continuing on with the "I told ya so" blather. I love you, Glen. I do. But please stop.

What they did set us back more than a decade. It was wrong from the start. Anyone with half of a strategic mind should have known that it was wrong from the start. Just because I sympathize with their motives does not mean I am willing to justify actions that are killing us. You will note that I did not even bring up my opposition to this op until you and others started justifying and encouraging it. If you keep justifying and encouraging this, then it will precipitate more such bad ops that only do us harm. I will never stop working to advance our cause. I will never stop working to prevent others from destroying our cause.

So long as people here continue to insinuate that anyone who opposed this op is a coward, I will continue to set them straight. Refusing to support an action that can only make things worse is not cowardice, but strategic intelligence.

[Jan2017]

Last four occupiers surrender at Oregon wildlife refuge, ending 41-day standoff Reuters - ‎2 hours ago‎ After Cliven Bundy's arrest, three of four remaining occupiers surrendered to the FBI at the urging of Nevada state Assemblywoman Michele Fiore and Rev. Franklin Graham, the son of Christian evangelist Billy Graham. Fiore and Franklin Graham both ...

the refuge would remain closed for several weeks as agents secured what was now considered a crime scene and scoured it for fugitives or explosives.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-or...-idUSKCN0VK05F

[GunnyFreedom]

No, Glen, it doesn't automatically make it good. In fact it can be absolutely terrible. While I may differ in opinion, and in this I do, I won't condemn anyone for the choices they make. They were merely doing something they felt they needed to do in their heart. And there is nothing wrong with that. But unless one can marry heart and mind then the goals one attains for cannot be reached. If anything I have sympathy for them. They attempted to do something the only way they knew how.

This is how I feel also. I have nothing but sympathy for them, but if we try to pretend now, after the fact that they were not wrong, it means that such ill-conceived ops will recur in the future, and thus bring our movement even more harm.

[Deborah K]

What they did set us back more than a decade. It was wrong from the start. Anyone with half of a strategic mind should have known that it was wrong from the start. Just because I sympathize with their motives does not mean I am willing to justify actions that are killing us. You will note that I did not even bring up my opposition to this op until you and others started justifying and encouraging it. If you keep justifying and encouraging this, then it will precipitate more such bad ops that only do us harm. I will never stop working to advance our cause. I will never stop working to prevent others from destroying our cause.

So long as people here continue to insinuate that anyone who opposed this op is a coward, I will continue to set them straight. Refusing to support an action that can only make things worse is not cowardice, but strategic intelligence.

Show me one damned post where I encouraged ANY of this $#@!, Glen. I never called YOU a coward, either. I am the coward!! Create a thread and trash the hell out of them if you want. But leave mine alone! Your point is made!

[GunnyFreedom]

Show me one damned post where I encouraged ANY of this $#@!, Glen. I never called YOU a coward, either. I am the coward!! Create a thread and trash the hell out of them if you want. But leave mine alone! Your point is made!

I am a free man. I will do what I want. I have trashed nobody. Your emotions are getting the better of your reason.

[phill4paul]

What they did set us back more than a decade. It was wrong from the start. Anyone with half of a strategic mind should have known that it was wrong from the start. Just because I sympathize with their motives does not mean I am willing to justify actions that are killing us. You will note that I did not even bring up my opposition to this op until you and others started justifying and encouraging it. If you keep justifying and encouraging this, then it will precipitate more such bad ops that only do us harm. I will never stop working to advance our cause. I will never stop working to prevent others from destroying our cause.

So long as people here continue to insinuate that anyone who opposed this op is a coward, I will continue to set them straight. Refusing to support an action that can only make things worse is not cowardice, but strategic intelligence.

Don't take it so personal. People can call me "coward" all they want. You're tougher than that too.

It is what it is. I'm using it as an learning experience and am writing an After Action Report for myself as we speak. As an operation it is ended. At least the physical aspect. The over-all tactical, whether planned or organic, is still in play. Though I don't believe beyond this point it will come to a fair resolution.

[Deborah K]

I am a free man. I will do what I want. I have trashed nobody. Your emotions are getting the better of your reason.

So sue me.

[RonPaulIsGreat]

Walking dead is back Sunday, everything will be fine. They can probably watch it in prison, so not so bad an outcome.

[Deborah K]

Someone named Ted Visner wrote this on his FB page:

We have got a ton of data now to work with with regard to the situation in Burns, OR.

Everyone involved in the peaceful attempts at redress (a right secured by the 1st Amendment) are either being held hostage (political prisoners) or have been killed (executed/exterminated) for one reason. The government will not hear ANY petitions for redress EVER AGAIN.

FIRST AMENDMENT
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

IT IS TIME WE CALL THIS DUCK A DUCK FOLKS!
The feds, by direction and design and with the full support of the counties and states, are making war upon the Constitution which is the same as making war upon the American People.

Yes... I know... this war on the Constitution has been going on for 239 years so please save your speech only because it detracts from the catalyzing events of the last few decades and from what is going on today not just in Burns, OR but everywhere.

[Ender]

So, if this was a stupid move, what would be the smart thing to do about men being sent to jail TWICE for the same infraction? What would be the smart move to make about FED take-over of private lands? What would be the smart thing to do about .gov lying to convict innocent people?

[phill4paul]

This is how I feel also. I have nothing but sympathy for them, but if we try to pretend now, after the fact that they were not wrong, it means that such ill-conceived ops will recur in the future, and thus bring our movement even more harm.

"Wrong" is objective depending which aspect you look at it from. Tactically, logistically, this operation made no sense. Organically, personally, for those involved it did. And that is not even including, I believe, an Federal operation that herded it.

I think what Deb is trying to say is that these individuals should be honored in that they decided to take an action. Any action. There's a very small amount of the population that has the balls to do that. For right or wrong.

I think you are trying to say, much like me, is that this was ill planned. FUBAR from the get go. It set back the militia movement. It set back the Liberty movement. Do it right or don't do it.

I agree with both of you.

[Deborah K]

So, if this was a stupid move, what would be the smart thing to do about men being sent to jail TWICE for the same infraction? What would be the smart move to make about FED take-over of private lands? What would be the smart thing to do about .gov lying to convict innocent people?

Anyone???

[Deborah K]

"Wrong" is objective depending which aspect you look at it from. Tactically, logistically, this operation made no sense. Organically, personally, for those involved it did. And that is not even including, I believe, an Federal operation that herded it.

I think what Deb is trying to say is that these individuals should be honored in that they decided to take an action. Any action. There's a very small amount of the population that has the balls to do that. For right or wrong.

I think you are trying to say, much like me, is that this was ill planned. FUBAR from the get go. It set back the militia movement. It set back the Liberty movement. Do it right or don't do it.

I agree with both of you.

Phil, as far as I can tell, all these people did was exercise nominal civil disobedience, and their 1st and 2nd amendment rights. So they didn't plan it out the way a militia would have. Is that the new standard now? Don't protest or demonstrate or practice any civil disobedience without prior military tactical training? Honest question.

[Dr.3D]

Of course they're supposed to go to a government court and sue the government when they've been wronged.

[phill4paul]

So, if this was a stupid move, what would be the smart thing to do about men being sent to jail TWICE for the same infraction? What would be the smart move to make about FED take-over of private lands? What would be the smart thing to do about .gov lying to convict innocent people?

This whole thing was originally inspired by the Hammonds. I believe that if the Hammonds had decided to ask for protection, on their property, the would have received it in abundance. And the end result would have been like the Battle of Bunkerville.

[phill4paul]

Phil, as far as I can tell, all these people did was exercise nominal civil disobedience, and their 1st and 2nd amendment rights. So they didn't plan it out the way a militia would have. Is that the new standard now? Don't protest or demonstrate or practice any civil disobedience without prior military tactical training? Honest question.

This is exactly what they did. There's no new standard, Deb. But when mistakes are make they need to be learned from.

[Deborah K]

Of course, Rev Graham is licking boots on his $#@!ter.

[GunnyFreedom]

So, if this was a stupid move, what would be the smart thing to do about men being sent to jail TWICE for the same infraction? What would be the smart move to make about FED take-over of private lands? What would be the smart thing to do about .gov lying to convict innocent people?

Anyone???

Whether or not I have a 'better' idea is irrelevant. Maybe I do, maybe I don't. It doesn't matter, because the lack of a good idea is not an excuse for pursuing a bad idea. Doing something just for the sake of doing something no matter how much that bad idea may harm our cause is not strategically sound.

You are in a soccer game, nobody knows what to do, but you feel have to do something, so you kick the ball into your own goal.

You are in a war, nobody knows what to do, but you feel have to do something, so you blow up your own city.

You are building a house, you do not know what to do, but you feel like you have to do something, so you lay your foundations in marshmallows.

In all three cases, doing nothing would have been better than what they actually did.

I certainly have ideas as to what other courses of action may have been pursued, but I'm not talking about them because they are not relevant to this fundamentally flawed way of thinking.

[Deborah K]

This is exactly what they did. There's no new standard, Deb. But when mistakes are make they need to be learned from.

Beating a dead horse doesn't teach me much.

[phill4paul]

Beating a dead horse doesn't teach me much.

The horse just lie down. The autopsy has only just begun.

[CPUd]

Aside from the Bundys and a handful of others, the arrests are mainly for show. What the feds want to do is scare the rest of them with prison time to get them to flip and testify against the Bundys in open court to show everyone how easily a group can turn on itself. Pretty much the same as the FBI were telling them last night over the bullhorn, "nobody's gonna come get your back, they left you all alone"