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Thread: One reason to vote for Bernie Sanders....

  1. #31
    There are literally no good choices. I keep trying to envision a scenario where there is somebody who could get nominated/elected which would cause the political re-alignment we have been hoping for, but I just don't see it. Maybe if Cruz wins the nomination and then loses to Hillary, then the argument could be made that the GOP has tried both moderates and traditional "conservatives" and neither have worked out, so it's time to give the liberty wing a chance. Problem is Cruz is perceived by some as being in the liberty wing himself...
    Last edited by Crashland; 02-07-2016 at 12:50 PM.
    Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. -Douglas Hofstadter

    Life, Liberty, Logic



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  3. #32
    If Trump gets elected, and is as bad as predicted around here, why couldn't our movement run a candidate against the GOP incumbent in 2020? RAND wouldn't, based on what he's said, but what's to stop us from getting behind a new person? With Trump in the White House, his disruption of the elite kingmaker system might continue to suspend the establishment from controlling the nomination in 2020, giving us an opening to run a pro-liberty guy one-on-one against the Donald. That unique scenario could be enough to give us victory.
    Last edited by Peace&Freedom; 02-07-2016 at 01:01 PM.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by torchbearer View Post
    Cruz wants to collect 100% of american's phone records and wants to carpet bomb civilians in Syria until the sand glows. What kind of sick $#@! supports that $#@!?
    How does that change the equation? Did I say Cruz was good?

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashland View Post
    There are literally no good choices. I keep trying to envision a scenario where there is somebody who could get nominated/elected which would cause the political re-alignment we have been hoping for, but I just don't see it. Maybe if Cruz wins the nomination and then loses to Hillary, then the argument could be made that the GOP has tried both moderates and traditional "conservatives" and neither have worked out, so it's time to give the liberty wing a chance. Problem is Cruz is perceived by some as being in the liberty wing himself...
    Yup, and even worse, Rubio or even Jeb might run AGAIN in 2020, on a "we've tried crazy, let's get back to serious" narrative that uses the Cruz and Trump campaigns to paint the liberty and anti-establishment options as "already tried" and failed. Rules may be created by the MSM and party leadership that exclude single digit people from the debates and poll tracking from the outset, to position the understanding of "serious contender" to a "moderates only" closed shop.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    Yeah I just like to add one thing;

    A socialist president doesn't mean socialist policies will be passed in congress.
    Actually it does. Most of the "faces" in Congress are closet socialist globalists. They will prod (or threaten or pay off) the small Congresspeople on Capitol Hill to vote for socialist legislation.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  8. #36
    I've made the decision to vote for Sanders, myself. Painful choice, but Sanders is hated on the democratic side and the republican side. As someone else mentioned, with Sanders in office we will have nothing but gridlock. He will be a one term President due to his age, that will get absolutely nothing done, giving us a shot to get a liberty candidate in for 2020. There will be no 2020 if Hillary gets in, and the republicans will have us at war within six months.

  9. #37

    Missing the Point

    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    Yeah I just like to add one thing;

    A socialist president doesn't mean socialist policies will be passed in congress.
    We already have socialist policies being passed in Congress. Just look at our tax code, for instance.
    "Then David said to the Philistine, 'You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of Yahweh of hosts, the God of the battle lines of Israel, Whom you have reproached.'" - 1 Samuel 17:45

    "May future generations look back on our work and say that these were men and women who, in moment of great crisis, stood up to their politicians, the opinion-makers, and the Establishment, and saved their country." - Dr. Ron Paul

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Dianne View Post
    I've made the decision to vote for Sanders, myself. Painful choice, but Sanders is hated on the democratic side and the republican side. As someone else mentioned, with Sanders in office we will have nothing but gridlock. He will be a one term President due to his age, that will get absolutely nothing done, giving us a shot to get a liberty candidate in for 2020. There will be no 2020 if Hillary gets in, and the republicans will have us at war within six months.
    I think Sanders has been selected so whether you vote for him or not is irrelevant, however, helping the public perception that he will be the legitimate "election winner" means you have become a useful tool.

    At UN Summit, World Rulers Adopt Agenda for Global Socialism 9-28-15
    http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-...obal-socialism

    A far-reaching United Nations plot to re-engineer civilization and impose global socialism on humanity, variously dubbed “Agenda 2030” and the “Sustainable Development Agenda,” was ushered in on Friday with a “thunderous standing ovation,” the UN Department of Public Information reported. Every one of the 193 UN member governments on the planet — from communist and Islamist dictatorships to those ruling what remains of the “Free World” — vowed to help impose the UN's controversial goals on their subjects. Indeed, according to the UN and the global agreement itself, not a single human being will be allowed to escape what one prominent internationalist ominously referred to as the next “Great Leap Forward.”

    That the UN Agenda 2030's 17 so-called “Sustainable Development Goals” (SDGs) and its accompanying 169 targets are essentially a recipe for global socialism and corporatism is hardly open for dispute, as countless analysts have pointed out in recent weeks.

    much more at link...a must read for anyone thinking about supporting Sanders simply as a political maneuver....your political maneuver will backfire badly compared to the result you are expecting
    Americans supporting a socialist President? What the $#@! happened to this country??
    Last edited by devil21; 02-07-2016 at 01:30 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by SilentBull View Post
    How does that change the equation? Did I say Cruz was good?

    There is no greater thans among evil. Evil is evil.
    rewritten history with armies of their crooks - invented memories, did burn all the books... Mark Knopfler

  12. #40

    "Holding-My-Nose" Socialists

    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    I think Sanders has been selected so whether you vote for him or not is irrelevant, however, helping the public perception that he will be the legitimate "election winner" means you have become a useful tool.

    At UN Summit, World Rulers Adopt Agenda for Global Socialism 9-28-15
    http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-...obal-socialism



    Americans supporting a socialist President? What the $#@! happened to this country??
    What's even worse is that we have, otherwise, liberty advocates suggesting and supporting a socialist President. Pragmatism really blinds some people.
    "Then David said to the Philistine, 'You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of Yahweh of hosts, the God of the battle lines of Israel, Whom you have reproached.'" - 1 Samuel 17:45

    "May future generations look back on our work and say that these were men and women who, in moment of great crisis, stood up to their politicians, the opinion-makers, and the Establishment, and saved their country." - Dr. Ron Paul



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    What's even worse is that we have, otherwise, liberty advocates suggesting and supporting a socialist President. Pragmatism really blinds some people.
    Ron Paul on ending US membership in the UN:


    The UN is the method to enact global socialism.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Americans supporting a socialist President? What the $#@! happened to this country??


    If this $#@!er hadn't have died, he'd probably STILL be president.
    Last edited by otherone; 02-07-2016 at 01:48 PM.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Dianne View Post
    I've made the decision to vote for Sanders, myself. Painful choice, but Sanders is hated on the democratic side and the republican side. As someone else mentioned, with Sanders in office we will have nothing but gridlock. He will be a one term President due to his age, that will get absolutely nothing done, giving us a shot to get a liberty candidate in for 2020. There will be no 2020 if Hillary gets in, and the republicans will have us at war within six months.
    If Sanders is elected, in 2020 the GOP nomination picture will most likely be overpacked again with 15+ candidates (unless the GOP and MSM limit the debates and poll tracking to contenders already in the double digits from the outset). The outcome of either the crowded field or exclusionary rules would be to freeze out the liberty candidate, not to make it easier for him to succeed.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Yep, and I have always said that I preferred fascism to socialism.
    yes me too. I don't want to though
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it."
    James Madison

    "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams



    Μολὼν λάβε
    Dum Spiro, Pugno
    Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLightShining View Post
    You guys are too hung up on the word "socialist". People making more than $250,000 year will see their taxes go up if congress supports him. Congress raise taxes on themselves and their buddies?
    I have lived in a socialist country. Not good. His plan would devastate what's is left of our economy and prevent any new business I want to start so screw Bernie and his DUMBASS supporters.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it."
    James Madison

    "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams



    Μολὼν λάβε
    Dum Spiro, Pugno
    Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito

  19. #46
    The only reason to vote for Sanders is if WWIII would start otherwise, I am not voting for a communist to select 3-4 supreme court nominees. You are very shortsighted if you think that 2020 is some sort of plan, incumbent presidents very rarely lose and there is no reason why the GOP would nominate Rand. We need new names, new faces, different places. What is Rand going to do differently to win in 2020? Is there some other liberty candidate on the horizon?

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    What's even worse is that we have, otherwise, liberty advocates suggesting and supporting a socialist President. Pragmatism really blinds some people.


    You want to talk pragmatism? Let's talk pragmatism.

    Pragmatism is Rand Paul saying back in 2010 that we ought to keep Gitmo open and that the prisoners should be tried in military tribunals because testimony taken from torture would get thrown out in civilian court and "that would be a problem." (Note the testimony would also be thrown out of a military tribunal worth spit.)

    Pragmatism is Rand Paul claiming he never said that Iran getting a nuclear bomb would not be a threat to the U.S. when there is video of him saying just that.

    Pragmatism is changing from "I support the Civil Rights Act but have a problem with one section of it dealing with private businesses" to "I absolutely support the Civil Rights Act without any qualifications because it was needed to deal with previous discrimination." (He actually has a point on that particular flip flop but it's un-articulated.)

    Pragmatism is Rand Paul on video telling Luke Rudowski that he had serious questions and concerns about the Bilderberg group, then after Bilderberg member Peter Thiel gave him a sizeable donation, all of a sudden avoiding questions about the Bilderberg. Rand Paul operative Jack "Southern Avenger" Hunter was dispatched to write an article basically calling anybody that talked about the Bilderberg group an idiot.

    Pragmatism is that same Jack Hunter being asked to fall on his sword for the "crime" of in his younger years calling himself the Southern Avenger and wearing a confederate flag wrestling mask.

    Pragmatism is endorsing Mitt Romney, whether or not his dad had really, really, really, dropped out of the race.

    Pragmatism is endorsing Mitch McConnell for re-election.

    Pragmatism is attacking Ted Cruz for calling McConnell a liar.

    Pragmatism is signing the Tom Cotton letter, regardless of the explanation for signing it.

    Pragmatism is voting for sanctions against Iran, regardless of the explanation for voting for it. I'll buy that it was a "symbolic gesture." But why was that symbolic gesture needed? Pragmatism.

    Pragmatism is my continuing to support Rand Paul despite all of the above.

    So....unless you were "smarter" than me and didn't support Rand....don't lecture me about pragmatism and the blindness it supposedly causes.

    I do not want the likely pedophile Bill Clinton and his twisted wife anywhere near the oval office again. Bernie Sanders beating her in the primary assures that one happen. On the republican side, at this point, I really don't care who wins or loses. Everyone else left sucks. If Clinton is beaten in the primary, then I will be able to vote 3rd party in the general election with a clear conscience. If she wins the primary, than even though my vote likely won't matter because I'm in a "red state", I'll still have a strong temptation to vote for Trump/Cruz/ even (*gasp*) Rubio. Besides, being in a red state the primary is really the only time my vote counts in a presidential election anyway.

    Lastly, I'm while angelatc favors fascism over socialism, and she's entitled to her opinion, I do not share it. I would rather live in socialist France or Canada than fascist era Spain, Italy or Argentina. Under democratic socialism I risk losing my money (the little I have.) Under fascism I risk losing my life.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  21. #48
    I believe I read somewhere that Hillary and Bernie had a 93% similar voting record in the Senate (I can't find the exact site now). Bernie is not anti-war or anti-establishment. Other than gender, he is basically the same person as Hillary.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    We already have socialist policies being passed in Congress. Just look at our tax code, for instance.
    Then this country was socialist under George Washington and Alexander Hamilton when they decided to redistribute wealth from whiskey farmers living on the frontier with an excise tax directed only at them.

    Now back to reality. Bernie Sanders will have one helluva time passing anything. Consider his flagship agenda item single payer healthcare. Many democrats won't vote for that at this point because that would be a tacit admission that Obamacare is a failure. And of course no republican will vote for it. Besides, neither the house nor the senate is expected to flip anytime soon.

    Contrast that with Donald Trump. He knows how to make "deals." Let him become president and we have another Sandy Hook and he might just wheel and deal your gun rights away. He said you shouldn't have an assault rifle in his book "The America You Deserve."

    Besides, what's the point of voting in the GOP primary now anyway? To stop Ted Cruz? To stop Donald Trump? To stop Marco Rubio? They're all bad in their own way. Yeah, Rubio is arguably worse than the other two, but for the life of me I have no idea who's worse between Cruz and Trump. I do know who's worse between Bernie and Hillary and that's Hillary.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by jkob View Post
    The only reason to vote for Sanders is if WWIII would start otherwise, I am not voting for a communist to select 3-4 supreme court nominees. You are very shortsighted if you think that 2020 is some sort of plan, incumbent presidents very rarely lose and there is no reason why the GOP would nominate Rand. We need new names, new faces, different places. What is Rand going to do differently to win in 2020? Is there some other liberty candidate on the horizon?
    Shortsighted is believing that there is any reason to participate in the GOP primary this election season. Unless you have a liberty house or senate member on the line "What difference does it make?" There is a reason to participate in the democratic primary and that is to stop Hillary. Edit: And Hillary is the candidate most likely to start WWIII.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulMall View Post
    I prefer Trump over Sanders but definitely want Sanders to win the Dem nomination so there is no chance we get Hillary. Trust Trump more on foreign policy and immigration.
    Hillary could inspire a helluva revolution... and sell guns like the Kenyan could only have nightmares about...

  26. #52
    Secondary Real reason. It would make my political airhead girlfriend happy. She loves Bernie Sanders.
    FTFY
    Radical in the sense of being in total, root-and-branch opposition to the existing political system and to the State itself. Radical in the sense of having integrated intellectual opposition to the State with a gut hatred of its pervasive and organized system of crime and injustice. Radical in the sense of a deep commitment to the spirit of liberty and anti-statism that integrates reason and emotion, heart and soul. - M. Rothbard

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post

    Lastly, I'm while angelatc favors fascism over socialism, and she's entitled to her opinion, I do not share it. I would rather live in socialist France or Canada than fascist era Spain, Italy or Argentina. Under democratic socialism I risk losing my money (the little I have.) Under fascism I risk losing my life.
    Major history fail:

    http://www.wnd.com/2012/08/socialisms-death-count/

    The unspeakable acts of Adolf Hitler’s Nazis pale in comparison with the horrors committed by the communists in the former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the People’s Republic of China. Between 1917 and 1987, Vladimir Lenin, Josef Stalin and their successors murdered and were otherwise responsible for the deaths of 62 million of their own people. Between 1949 and 1987, China’s communists, led by Mao Zedong and his successors, murdered and were otherwise responsible for the deaths of 76 million Chinese. The most authoritative tally of history’s most murderous regimes is documented on University of Hawaii professor Rudolph J. Rummel’s website and in his book “Death by Government.”

    Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2012/08/socialism...5XHZ4F2cDec.99

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Cabal View Post
    Secondary Real reason. It would make my political airhead girlfriend happy. She loves Bernie Sanders.
    FTFY
    LOL. Touche'.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Major history fail:
    Wrong. Double history fail on your part. First Hitler wasn't fascist. He was national socialist. Second the WND "socialism death count" is really talking about communism rather than democratic socialism. Communism is socialism under a dictatorship. Sometimes nations become totally socialists without being dictatorships. (France. Greece. Canada.) Fascist countries always end up dictatorships.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post


    If this $#@!er hadn't have died, he'd probably STILL be president.
    No doubt that socialist policies have been here a lot longer than just recently and the incrementalism is ramping up, however the availability of information is light years beyond where it was back then. I doubt Roosevelt openly campaigned as a socialist, especially while as President allegedly fighting a war against socialists and fascists.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book



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  32. #57
    Sanders is a National Socialist which is Fascism. The difference between Trump and Sanders is the difference between Hitler and Mussolini, nothing.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Wrong. Double history fail on your part. First Hitler wasn't fascist. He was national socialist. Second the WND "socialism death count" is really talking about communism rather than democratic socialism. Communism is socialism under a dictatorship. Sometimes nations become totally socialists without being dictatorships. (France. Greece. Canada.) Fascist countries always end up dictatorships.
    The democratic socialist countries of Europe have helped us kill at least a million people in the Middle East over the last ten years. Just because you get to change your dictator doesn't mean you don't live in a dictatorship. The power of dictatorship lies with the state, not the figurehead.

    National Socialism=Fascism. That is literally the difference. Socialism is an international belief. National Socialism is socialism contained within the country, and what Mussolini, and ardent socialist, called his government. The term fascism was adopted because Mussolini adopted Roman faces imagery.
    Last edited by PierzStyx; 02-07-2016 at 07:29 PM.

  34. #59
    Since my state has an open primary and none of the republicans are worth voting for.. I too will be using my vote against Hillary by voting for Sanders.
    I know, it sounds crazy.. libertarian, Ron Paul supporter, going to vote for the self proclaimed socialist.. Its a wacky crazy world out there, what can I say..

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    The democratic socialist countries of Europe have helped us kill at least a million people in the Middle East over the last ten years. Just because you get to change your dictator doesn't mean you don't live in a dictatorship. The power of dictatorship lies with the state, not the figurehead.
    Well hell. If that's your measuring stick then nothing matters at all. The supposedly non-socialist United States was leading the charge. And before that we killed a bunch of native Americans. And we dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagisaki. And our cluster$#@! intervention in World War I helped usher in the Soviet Union in the first place and set the state for the rise of Hitler.

    Seriously, I thought we were talking about internal deaths. (Well the Native Americans count as internal, but you know what I mean.) In places like Argentina, Spain, Italy, people were routinely snatched and never heard from again.

    National Socialism=Fascism. That is literally the difference. Socialism is an international belief. National Socialism is socialism contained within the country, and what Mussolini, and ardent socialist, called his government. The term fascism was adopted because Mussolini adopted Roman faces imagery.
    No. Hitler called his government national socialism. Mussolini called his government corporatism.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

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