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Thread: Cruz is better than Trump or Rubio, due to the Rand Factor - Let's Caucus for Cruz

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    GTFO no real Rand supporter is gonna buy that bull$#@!

    My point on the NSA was that Cruz at least wants the public to think he's totally integral on the NSA, so if Rand Paul started a common sense NSA reform bill that didn't harm security, Cruz would almost be forced to support it, to keep his image as a freedom fighter, regardless of Cruz's motives. Yes, this sucks compared to Paul as president, but it's way more than we can hope for from Rubio or Trump.

    Not that an absense of answer would prove my points completely, but does anybody have any reasons why Rubio or Trump would be better than Cruz from a realistic standpoint? I have not heard any yet.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    He voted for sanctions against Iran and supported air strikes against ISIS. Those are certainly positions that Ron disagreed with, and positions that would lead to civilian deaths overseas.
    How is that worse then spying on 100% of cell phone records, and carpet bombing the middle east? Ron Paul fought against these policies because they are against everything he stands for. Carpet bombing creates more terrorists then it kills, all you get is more "blowback"



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    How is that worse then spying on 100% of cell phone records, and carpet bombing the middle east? Ron Paul fought against these policies because they are against everything he stands for. Carpet bombing creates more terrorists then it kills, all you get is more "blowback"
    It isn't worse. My point was just that if the standard is that no politician should be supported for President who would kill innocent people overseas as a result of his Presidency, Rand doesn't meet that standard either.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    It isn't worse. My point was just that if the standard is that no politician should be supported for President who would kill innocent people overseas as a result of his Presidency, Rand doesn't meet that standard either.
    NO he doesn't Rand has called to declare war legally, because right now he believes the 2003 AUMF was a bad idea and the previous generation shouldn't send this one into war. Cruz hired the guy who wrote the 2003 AUMF.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    NO he doesn't Rand has called to declare war legally, because right now he believes the 2003 AUMF was a bad idea and the previous generation shouldn't send this one into war. Cruz hired the guy who wrote the 2003 AUMF.
    We weren't talking about the legality of the war. A legally declared war against ISIS would still lead to civilian deaths overseas.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    We weren't talking about the legality of the war. A legally declared war against ISIS would still lead to civilian deaths overseas.
    What's that have to say about this, you have to say that he wants us to go to war but he has never called for it, you take his words out of context and use them against him. He was arguing for legal war because at the time there wasn't enough support for it. There is finally now enough support for it, and your guy Cruz hired the guy that drafted the Iraq war, and he worked for the guy who started the Iraq war and the patriot act. This is everything Ron ran against, fake conservatives like yourself should stick to their words. You should wait until Rand drops out and endorses Cruz before you post in here again.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Why did he hire Elliot Abrams to help craft his foreign relations? James Woolsey? General Michael Hayden, former director of the NSA?
    The enemy of my enemy may be worse than my enemy.

    I do not suffer from Trump Rearrangement Syndrome. Sorry if that triggers you.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    What's that have to say about this, you have to say that he wants us to go to war but he has never called for it, you take his words out of context and use them against him. He was arguing for legal war because at the time there wasn't enough support for it. There is finally now enough support for it, and your guy Cruz hired the guy that drafted the Iraq war, and he worked for the guy who started the Iraq war and the patriot act. This is everything Ron ran against, fake conservatives like yourself should stick to their words. You should wait until Rand drops out and endorses Cruz before you post in here again.
    Cruz isn't "my guy." I donated money to Rand and made phone calls for him in Iowa. I would much rather Rand be President than Cruz. But, Cruz's voting record on issues like foreign policy and civil liberties is far better than Rubio's, and Cruz would be better for the cause of liberty than Rubio. Trump is decent on foreign policy but is awful on economics and civil liberties. Overall I think that Cruz is significantly better than the others, even though he doesn't measure up to Rand. I wish Rand would've won, but I see no point of allowing someone like Rubio to win the GOP nomination, who's far worse on the issues we care about.

  11. #39

  12. #40
    He's not my first choice. I think that Rand would've been a better President than Cruz. His foreign policy is better. But Cruz's foreign policy is better than Rubio's, as he at least opposes some wars like the war in Libya and toppling Assad in Syria, while Rubio supports every single war overseas.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    He's not my first choice. I think that Rand would've been a better President than Cruz. His foreign policy is better. But Cruz's foreign policy is better than Rubio's, as he at least opposes some wars like the war in Libya and toppling Assad in Syria, while Rubio supports every single war overseas.
    He supports carpet bombing which will only create more wars, has Rubio called for carpet bombing? At least he showed up for the audit the fed bill and he never shows up.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    Cruz isn't "my guy." I donated money to Rand and made phone calls for him in Iowa. I would much rather Rand be President than Cruz. But, Cruz's voting record on issues like foreign policy and civil liberties is far better than Rubio's, and Cruz would be better for the cause of liberty than Rubio. Trump is decent on foreign policy but is awful on economics and civil liberties. Overall I think that Cruz is significantly better than the others, even though he doesn't measure up to Rand. I wish Rand would've won, but I see no point of allowing someone like Rubio to win the GOP nomination, who's far worse on the issues we care about.
    Yes. I think the plan to elect the best out of Trump, Cruz, and Rubio is ideal, because there's not much functionality right now in voting for Paul. The reason why you vote for a candidate that has no chance to win is to make a their movement look stronger. But a candidate that has already dropped out does not look weak when not voted for, as everyone understands that their votes are only low due to the dropping out. You could argue that votes for a drop-out still makes them look stronger, as a vote for someone who has dropped out is making a unique statement for sure. But I don't think the Establishment etc. voters care too much about how many votes that libertarian who dropped out 2 months ago received in the primary, and what matters is converting Establishment etc. voters, not how well we perceive ourselves. I see the purpose of voting a bit different than some here, and I realize that.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    He supports carpet bombing which will only create more wars, has Rubio called for carpet bombing? At least he showed up for the audit the fed bill and he never shows up.
    Rubio has called for ground troops, which is what the neocons want. They want to send an endless amount of ground troops back to the Middle East for permanent nation buiding/empire building.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    I don't know if you supported Rand, but a Rand Presidency would've led to civilian deaths since he supported air strikes against ISIS. I understand the argument that it violates one's conscience to vote for someone who will be responsible for killing any civilians at all overseas, but to apply that consistently, that would also rule out Rand for consideration for President as well. Rand also voted for sanctions against Iran, and sanctions cause people to die from starvation. I don't see why it's such a stretch to vote for Cruz if we supported Rand despite Rand's positions that will be responsible for killing at least some innocent people overseas.
    I was hoping Rand was lying. If I thought he meant a lot of the $#@! that comes out of his mouth I wouldn't have considered voting for him either.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    Rubio has called for ground troops, which is what the neocons want. They want to send an endless amount of ground troops back to the Middle East for permanent nation buiding/empire building.
    Yes but they won't get that support from the us public unless we get attacked. Do you think we are more likely or less likely to be attacked if we indiscriminately carpet bomb people in the middle east creating blowback? I'll give you a hint, if you think we are less likely then you are not a Ron Paul Republican.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Yes but they won't get that support from the us public unless we get attacked. Do you think we are more likely or less likely to be attacked if we indiscriminately carpet bomb people in the middle east creating blowback? I'll give you a hint, if you think we are less likely then you are not a Ron Paul Republican.
    More likely, which is why Ron's foreign policy would be ideal. I'm just talking about stopping the most full blown neo-con candidate, Rubio, from winning the GOP nomination.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    More likely, which is why Ron's foreign policy would ideal. I'm just talking about stopping the most full blown neo-con candidate, Rubio, from winning the GOP nomination.
    Which is ted Cruz, think about it.. If the neocons wanted to get conservative voters they would run on a platform of balanced budgets, non intervention and no nation building. Cruz actually wrote that strategy for Bush.

  21. #48
    Why would anyone want to vote for Cruz if he's not going to win anyway?
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Which is ted Cruz, think about it.. If the neocons wanted to get conservative voters they would run on a platform of balanced budgets, non intervention and no nation building. Cruz actually wrote that strategy for Bush.
    Bush and Rubio are the candidates the neocons are pushing for the most. They would take Cruz over Rand, no doubt, but they would much rather have Bush or Rubio. As I said, Rubio is in the camp of never opposing any war overseas. Cruz is more pro war than I would like but isn't so tied to neocon ideology that he just blindly supports every war. He at least opposes some wars that he believes weakens our national security, like toppling dictators in Libya and Syria.

  24. #50

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    Why would anyone want to vote for Cruz if he's not going to win anyway?
    Obviously he has a good chance to win.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    Bush and Rubio are the candidates the neocons are pushing for the most. They would take Cruz over Rand, no doubt, but they would much rather have Bush or Rubio. As I said, Rubio is in the camp of never opposing any war overseas. Cruz is more pro war than I would like but isn't so tied to neocon ideology that he just blindly supports every war. He at least opposes some wars that he believes weakens our national security, like toppling dictators in Libya and Syria.

    Why is it so hard to believe that the guy who wrote the 2000 neocon (FAKE CONSERVATIVE) presidential cookbook is fake conservative? Is it Rands and Ron's endorsement, because that had me tricked until they didn't endorse him for president.

  27. #53
    You guys can do what you want. I respect others opinions and don't condemn others for their choices. I fully understand not supporting Cruz due to his foreign policy being too pro war. I think there are other strategies though, such as stopping an even worse candidate on foreign policy like Rubio from winning the GOP nomination. I also think there are other issues to consider than just foreign policy. I'm not trying to convince anyone to actually vote for Cruz; my point is just that those who don't believe in sitting the election out or voting third party shouldn't be condemned as being "neocons, traitors," etc. All you guys are going to do is make the liberty movement smaller and smaller. I'm not going to keep discussing this issue and won't keep talking about Cruz, but I simply wanted to get my point across that we're all individuals and are going to have different strategies regarding how best to promote and preserve liberty. And having differing strategies is no reason to attack and demean each other, claiming that some of us with a different strategy aren't actually part of the movement. It's getting late. Good night.
    Last edited by Brett85; 02-06-2016 at 12:32 AM.

  28. #54
    You are not making any interesting points so far...

    Cruz is spawn of the bush policy team and I will never support him.

    Flipped on Snowden and the patriot act, missed audit the fed, listens to the likes of neocon John Bolton.

    That's a flat NO. Not really a tough choice either
    The ultimate minority is the individual. Protect the individual from Democracy and you will protect all groups of individuals
    Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. - Thomas Jefferson
    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

    - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear

  29. #55
    Chester Copperpot
    Member

    I would have a hard time voting for Cruz even if Rand were his VP.. Id vote for the VP (Rand) but still wouldnt feel good about it... Ill take my chances with Trump.. Im comfortable enough now after all this time in saying I dont believe hes bought and paid for by anyone.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    Obviously he has a good chance to win.
    Cruz is going to get crushed so bad next week in NH they are gonna forget he won Iowa. By Cruz's own logic, NH voters need not show up to vote for if he's not going to win.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul



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  32. #57
    Chester Copperpot
    Member

    I hope Cruz gets painful ass cancer.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Makes Interesting Points View Post
    Most people on here seem to be against any compromise vote, as if you guys think some guy at the election center will sit there reading your vote and say "Man, this guy really didn't stand up for liberty enough and is too willing to compromise". I like being picky as much as the next liberty guy as far as who I give high scores to, and Cruz's "Voter Violation" debacle has knocked him down a peg for me recently. However, the country's situation isn't just about the person elected, but the fate of certain issues. Have you guys already forgotten that Americans are nearing permanent desensitization to the NSA? What about government secrecy and that we need to do things like auditing the Fed and making Congress read their bills? What about all the ethical technology related issues that will come up in the next 4-8 years as the world changes? Who is going to be the voice that tries to put an end to all these injustices during the next President's term? It's Senator Rand Paul. And who, out of the top three candidates for the nomination, is most likely to back Paul's future proposed bills and filibusters? Ted Cruz.

    Rubio, the man who aggressively calls Snowden a traitor, does not understand Paul at all, and would hardly be better than Obama at helping Paul's proposals. Trump, though having a couple sprinkles of libertarianism such as being against mandatory vaccines, is likely too stupid to "get" Paul, and won't realize the significance of anything Paul proposes. Ted Cruz very often votes with Paul on freedom issues, and has a much higher chance than the other two at backing Paul's Senate proposals while President. There are several issues that Paul is nearly the lone voice of reason for. The country's laws are not the only thing falling into a slippery slope - American citizens' are also sliding further into desensitization to their loss of freedom, as proven by the fact that there's no mass uproar over the NSA. Therefore, it may soon be our last chance to fix this issue, and we need a President with a chance of understanding it (at least Cruz is open minded about it and acknowledges it), as well as someone who will take Paul seriously on all the other proposals.

    Cruz is undoubtedly the best choice out of the top 3 Republicans, because we need a President that is open minded towards Randism. Unless there's real reasons why Cruz is not the best out of the top 3, reasons that overpower the Rand Factor, we should all take our pride down a notch (temporarily) and caucus for Cruz in my opinion. Let's fight for every inch we can get, instead of giving up!
    Your points couldn't possibly be any less interesting, please change your screen name.

  34. #59
    Cruz said he "forgot" that he borrowed $2M from Goldman Sachs and Citibank. Is this the kind of guy you can trust to follow through on Audit the Fed? This guy didn't even show up to vote for it. He isn't going to audit a damn thing.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Makes Interesting Points View Post
    Most people on here seem to be against any compromise vote, as if you guys think some guy at the election center will sit there reading your vote and say "Man, this guy really didn't stand up for liberty enough and is too willing to compromise". I like being picky as much as the next liberty guy as far as who I give high scores to, and Cruz's "Voter Violation" debacle has knocked him down a peg for me recently. However, the country's situation isn't just about the person elected, but the fate of certain issues. Have you guys already forgotten that Americans are nearing permanent desensitization to the NSA? What about government secrecy and that we need to do things like auditing the Fed and making Congress read their bills? What about all the ethical technology related issues that will come up in the next 4-8 years as the world changes? Who is going to be the voice that tries to put an end to all these injustices during the next President's term? It's Senator Rand Paul. And who, out of the top three candidates for the nomination, is most likely to back Paul's future proposed bills and filibusters? Ted Cruz.

    Rubio, the man who aggressively calls Snowden a traitor, does not understand Paul at all, and would hardly be better than Obama at helping Paul's proposals. Trump, though having a couple sprinkles of libertarianism such as being against mandatory vaccines, is likely too stupid to "get" Paul, and won't realize the significance of anything Paul proposes. Ted Cruz very often votes with Paul on freedom issues, and has a much higher chance than the other two at backing Paul's Senate proposals while President. There are several issues that Paul is nearly the lone voice of reason for. The country's laws are not the only thing falling into a slippery slope - American citizens' are also sliding further into desensitization to their loss of freedom, as proven by the fact that there's no mass uproar over the NSA. Therefore, it may soon be our last chance to fix this issue, and we need a President with a chance of understanding it (at least Cruz is open minded about it and acknowledges it), as well as someone who will take Paul seriously on all the other proposals.

    Cruz is undoubtedly the best choice out of the top 3 Republicans, because we need a President that is open minded towards Randism. Unless there's real reasons why Cruz is not the best out of the top 3, reasons that overpower the Rand Factor, we should all take our pride down a notch (temporarily) and caucus for Cruz in my opinion. Let's fight for every inch we can get, instead of giving up!
    my compromise vote is for Bernie. Hopefully he expands the medical field bigger than it already is, gives me a big raise and maybe makes me a union boss. That way, I can raise union dues and take even more money out of your kids lemonade stand profits. My only wish is that I would have the ability to target only the Trump and Cruz supporters for extra punishment.

    Bernie 2016
    Making Jules your overlord and saviour from 2017 till the end of time
    Last edited by juleswin; 02-06-2016 at 05:45 PM.

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