Now that Rand is done, people should just do what they think is best. Trying to unite all the people on this forum is like herding cats.
Honestly at this point just look out for you and your own the best you can while waiting to see how events play out.
We should quit focusing all of our efforts on representative democracy and start looking at direct democracy. I'm talking about ballot initiatives. Look at what happened in Colorado with the change of marijuana laws? That totally went under my radar and I never saw any real move among the so called "Liberty" movement to back it. The push in Colorado was led by Tom Tancredo, someone that most of us considered a "neocon" and an enemy of Ron Paul when they both ran in 2008. And who fought against legalization of marijuana? Why none other than the Campaign For Liberty endorsed Ken Buck! My point is that when we are talking about issues, rather than parties, it's easier to build the types of coalitions needed to make real change. Recently a republican senator in Tennessee proposed legislation to legalize pot for the treatment of vets with PTSD. Some folks here were critical. "That's not fair! Why not legalize it for everybody?" Because in the Tennessee state legislature, a law limited to vets is probably the only thing that could actually pass. And that stands little chance of passage. But 75% of Tennesseans support medical marijuana!
See: https://www.mpp.org/states/tennessee/ If this was a ballot initiative, instead of a piece of legislation, it would pass by a landslide. But when people go to the polls to pick their "representatives", single issues usually aren't on the top of their list. In fact most people don't even know the name of their state representatives. And these people in power count on such ignorance. They know Tennessee is a "red state" and as long as they can get through the primary process one time, get elected as a republican (or a democrat in the state's democratic pockets), they've got a cushy job for life.
Some (like the now departed from RPF Matt Collins) are against ballot initiatives because of what I can only describe as "principled stupidity." Matt's my bud, but he was wrong as hell on this. The argument is "Well if people vote for laws directly they will vote to raise other people's taxes." Only....ballot initiatives are the law in all 50 states and typically ballot initiatives that say "Let's raise taxes" fail. In fact there have been ballot initiatives in Tennessee to lower the power of the state to raise taxes. (See: https://ballotpedia.org/Tennessee_In...t_3_%282014%29)
So here's my proposal.
1) Let's identify ballot initiatives that we'd like to see passed in all 50 states. Like kicking out the TSA from state airports. Or strengthening the 2nd amendment at the state level. Or decriminalizing medicinal and/or recreational marijuana. Or limiting the power of local police to receive military style weapons from the federal government. Or barring local police from cooperating with federal "fusion centers."
2) Let's find out how to get issues on the ballot in each state.
3) Let's work towards that goal.
Sure, that doesn't get the federal reserve audited, but it could to a lot to restore liberty.
9/11 Thermate experiments
Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I
"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"
"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul
"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty
We need to draft Ron Paul for president in 2020.
Yes.
These are all very good ideas. Initiative and referendum at the local level is pure populism at work and the courts are very hesitant to overturn this type of thing. It was very powerful in Maine, where I used to live, but here in the south, NC, the people are very submissive....I have no idea why, maybe a result of losing the civil war and reconstruction, but the state governments don't even like their own residents...more laws than anywhere else I've ever lived.1) Let's identify ballot initiatives that we'd like to see passed in all 50 states. Like kicking out the TSA from state airports. Or strengthening the 2nd amendment at the state level. Or decriminalizing medicinal and/or recreational marijuana. Or limiting the power of local police to receive military style weapons from the federal government. Or barring local police from cooperating with federal "fusion centers."
2) Let's find out how to get issues on the ballot in each state.
3) Let's work towards that goal.
I agree with the ideas of starting at the local levels and working up, but also, I would not give up on the federal level. It took the left from 1965 to 2008 to finally control the Democratic Party...but they did succeed. So take heart...it's a long haul.
Finally, I really do not think one can change the tide of history through electoral politics. I had this sense with Obama's election that some how it was destiny..a cycle, it could not be thwarted. But, it is still important to have people in place for when it does start to turn. Right now, it seems to me, and me only, that it would take a major event to slow down the progression of big government. Something on the level of 9/11 but with the opposite effect, but I have very little idea of what that could be. Maybe an economic collapse of some kind that would force people to fend for themselves? Something that would stop the flow of money from the federal government forcing states and individuals to live within their means? I don't know...anyone have any ideas? I'm interested.
Hey Bryan, I haven't been on my computer so I haven't been able to PM you but I am interested in hearing what you're thinking and going from there. Thanks to you, your staff, and volunteers for maintaining RPF. I have so much respect for y'all that I am excited to hear what RPF has in store.
I agree completely. Maybe we can create a petition large enough to force it to be voted upon.
If we had any sense we'd invest all this time and effort into a productive income generating business. Then the successful people would be libertarians, as opposed to nuts on the interwebz, then we could simply buy the politicians which are all for sale anyway. "Normal" people as in apathetic sociopaths don't give a $#@! about freedom, and that is in my estimation 80% of the population. They care about food, housing, pussy, and entertainment. Good luck convincing them to do anything that interferes with any of those things.
PEOPLE DO NOT CARE ABOUT FREEDOM....
I agree but party politics works to prevent this from happening. Both Rand and Ron endorsed terrible Republican candidates in their career because their party requires them to.
I've also been wondering if this group could become a kind of Foundation, but wondered if that would be redundant with the other similar groups like Campaign for Liberty, yet it sounds like CFL is inept or misguided.
I dunno maybe this group could run political Kickstarters on issues to raise money and educate.
I agree with everyone in this thread who has advocated our getting involved in local, county, and state politics/elections. That's where civil government is closest to the people, anyway. Here are a few ideas that come to mind:
- We need to get acquainted with our state constitutions and start holding our state legislatures accountable for their votes and laws, especially the ones where they allow the federal government to overstep their authority.
- At the county level is where we need to start building support for third parties so that one day, hopefully, they will be taken more seriously on the national stage.
- We need to attend city council and town hall meetings to learn about the issues which affect our lives daily, issues such as zoning laws, property taxes, and law enforcement initiatives.
"Then David said to the Philistine, 'You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of Yahweh of hosts, the God of the battle lines of Israel, Whom you have reproached.'" - 1 Samuel 17:45
"May future generations look back on our work and say that these were men and women who, in moment of great crisis, stood up to their politicians, the opinion-makers, and the Establishment, and saved their country." - Dr. Ron Paul
They managed to herd cats using lanterns back in the late 1700's...surely we can do better and make as big an impact.
They don't care because they don't know what freedom is.
Frankly, if they did know they wouldn't want it, as it conflicts with their interests.
All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
-Albert Camus
Ron Paul 2016 !!!!
"Never Miss a Good Chance to Shut up"
What do you have in mind?
freedomisobvious.blogspot.com
There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.
It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.
Our words make us the ghosts that we are.
Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.
Actually I think you are wrong here. Winning small offices will have a "trickle up" effect.
We need to build Liberty coalitions in each state.
I agree with the focus being on local and state government.
Repealing the 17th amendment SHOULD get more people involved with who represents them on the state level.
I would guess that a majority of people don't know their own representive in their local councils.
Does direct democracy through ballot initiatives not frighten you?
What is to keep the population from voting away your individual rights? It's clear that most do not care for freedom now.
I've given about all I could to "the movement." I think the number one most important thing anyone can do is consciously apply the non-aggression principle on a daily, hourly basis. Focus on being kindhearted toward the people around you. Take time to care for yourself. In this way we back out of the matrix.
For those that still have motivation to expand "the movement" I highly recommend becoming involved with Bernie Sanders' supporters. It's not about Bernie, it's about his supporters, who agree with libertarians much more than they realize. It's the reverse of what we did in Vermont, selling Ron Paul to the left, that must be done. The civil libertarians and freedom advocates that have been facing the right need to get past the GOP and build bridges based on peace with our counterparts on the left.
It's been talked about before but only really showed successful results in Vermont where we actually pursued the alliance. If you'll remember, RP got 25% here in the 2012 primaries.
http://www.rawstory.com/2011/01/progressive-libertarianism-the-exciting-political-dynamic-ralph-nader/
i say we start promoting a 3rd party being allowed in the debates. there has to be a way to break the two party debate format. its unethical and downright shameful the amount of control they have on debates. as one saw this election cycle and last, its all to easy for them to just change the rules, or make up some requirement to get into a debate even if you have a serious campaign. we need a third voice.
This is what I think. :/
We have accomplished on a grade scale most everything that has been mentioned in this thread. We have infiltrated local and state offices in the GOP, local and state government offices too. What we have accomplished for Ron Paul I honestly don't see happening again with a grassroots message on a national stage.
What has happened with Rand and his campaign now that he is suspended .. has chopped up whatever togetherness we did have for him. I've never seen nothing like it, on Facebook anyway. Within hours of his announcing suspension his people were literally endorsing other candidates.
That did not happen with Ron Paul ever. When s*** hit the fan with us we all regrouped without Ron to discuss strategy and tactics. With the Rand people they literally jump ship and skedaddled.
Now don't get me wrong, I donated to Rand Paul too. But for me it was all by default. I'm a die-hard Ron Paul supporter.
In a way I'm kind of hoping Rand suspended his campaign as a tactic to dictate delegates of other candidates. For him to use at a later time. But even then I don't see a delegate strategy working for Rand like I did for his father. Unfortunately.
What I do know is if Ron Paul would announce his presidency before CPAC. Our togetherness will be like nothing this country has ever seen before. The Ron Paul Revolution would be so powerful that there is no words to describe why Ron would not announce.
If you care to know what I think.
Please take a look here for some inspiration:
Thread: Built to Last, Good to Great, How the Mighty Fall, and Great by Choice
'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988
Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation
'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3
Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.
...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...
Pop culture. When it's cool to vote against force, we'll see a liberty bully pulpit.
The Daily Show and it's ilk are pathetic, and I believe there is an opportunity for an edgy, in-your face, internet-based comedy type political program.
The more truth you can reveal, the better the art IMO. RPFs humor tells me this. RPF "truth humor" is the best I have come across.
Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is kept safe. Proverbs 29:25
"I think the propaganda machine is the biggest problem that we face today in trying to get the truth out to people."
Ron Paul
Please watch, subscribe, like, & share, Ron Paul Liberty ReportBITCHUTE IS A LIBERTY MINDED ALTERNATIVE TO GOOGLE SUBSIDIARY YOUTUBE
...not nearly enough.
AFAIK, there are only a handful of libertarian/ish officials in local and state government. We can do much better.
Ron's a unique character; it takes 30+ years under just the right conditions to make a Ron. We won't have another for a long time, if ever. But there's no reason why a candidate like Rand (or Amash or Massie or someone yet unknown) couldn't do as well, or much better. What killed us this time, most of all, was the media focus on ISIS and immigration. To do well nationally, we need a cycle more like 2012/2008, where the focus was on economic issues and people were tired of the WOT. So, let's regroup, refocus on some winnable local, state, and congressional races, rebuild our momentum, and we'll see what happens in 2020/2024.What we have accomplished for Ron Paul I honestly don't see happening again with a grassroots message on a national stage.
N.B. Foreign policy and immigration issues are much less important in state/local races, another reason to focus on those for the time being.
Ron would not have done any better in this political environment.What I do know is if Ron Paul would announce his presidency before CPAC. Our togetherness will be like nothing this country has ever seen before. The Ron Paul Revolution would be so powerful that there is no words to describe why Ron would not announce.
If you care to know what I think.
By 2020, Ron will be 84. He's not going to run.
We need to move on.
Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 02-07-2016 at 01:14 PM.
I also think the 'Liberty Movement' seems a little vague.
In a Ron Paul group I was in, there was a lot of internal arguing or debating much like I see on this forum, but at least in the end the group would pass the hat and collect money to support Ron Paul with buying signs, bumper stickers, or sign waving. I'm concerned that without the Pauls, what you mostly will have left is the arguing and that this won't be a unified group, but rather many factions who have their own ideas about what Liberty means to them.
Whatever this group does now, it might need a clearly worded Mission Statement listing it's positions. Either this can be new rules drawn up and agreed to, or perhaps merely state this forum is a Libertarian Party group and officially adopt their platform.
http://www.lp.org/platform
Or officially adopt Ron Paul's positions.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Ron_Paul.htm
Or decide if you want to get behind the next Libertarian nominee and adopt their official position.
Or let's just get back to the basics and get Ron Paul in the White House.
I never said they didn't: "Winning smaller political offices has minimal effect and should not be a top priority..."
Tell me if I'm wrong, but I think Ron Paul's Presidential runs did far more for the liberty movement than anything else we have tried. All I'm saying is that we need to make it a priority to do that again. We can still do other stuff too. Running for political office is picking up a megaphone, and I think bigger megaphones are better
"Gradualism in theory is perpetuity in practice." ~ William Lloyd Garrison
STRATEGY: Three Essential Guidelines for the Liberty Movement
Liberty Policy Journal
Striking at the Root
You are definitely wrong. The problem is the people do not want liberty. The way to change that, and thus make a liberty President viable, is to change people's minds. The way to change people's minds is to win local offices and demonstrate the effectiveness of liberty. This eliminates the fear, creates desire, and will lead to a liberty victory in the White House.
Until and unless we start working from the bottom up, we can go 100 years and this will never happen. Period.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to GunnyFreedom again.
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