John Kasich picks up a Rand Paul adviser

[Erazer]

What problem is that, Matt?

The problem of Matt not being promoted.

[GunnyFreedom]

No, unlike what you did I am not calling out specific people or blaming certain people for a loss or just running my mouth (and not knowing what you were talking about in the process).

So you think "Head of Rand Paul's NH Campaign" is less specific than naming the person who screwed up then? The reason you think I am an evil idiot and you are a heroic god, is because you used a title where I dared to speak a name. The horror. Lol

[69360]

The point is that this is indicative of a very systemic underlying problem.

No it isn't. We all knew Paul inc had nepotism, was sort of inept and self serving. This was no huge secret problem. We went along with it because the policy was good. Voters don't like the ideas put forth and we lost 3 times. The voters sent us a message and it's over. You can throw all the money and time in the world at this and still wouldn't win.

[LibertyEagle]

No it isn't. We all knew Paul inc had nepotism, was sort of inept and self serving. This was no huge secret problem. We went along with it because the policy was good. Voters don't like the ideas put forth and we lost 3 times. The voters sent us a message and it's over. You can throw all the money and time in the world at this and still wouldn't win.

Oh bull. You can't expect to overturn something that took over 100 years to screw up, in just a few years, or national elections. For the first time in a long time, things like the proper role of government, are being discussed; a lot of people have now heard of the Federal Reserve Bank; people have heard that our government is arming ISIS, and on and on. Fact is, winning the presidency was a pipe dream. That is so very controlled that the only way we might have done it is to have overwhelmed them with sheer numbers of supporters. Given that the chosen ones within the movement are feckle as all hell and will stab anyone they don't deem as pure enough, it probably isn't going to happen for the presidency. Not now, anyway.

But, we have been successful electing Senators and Congressmen and truth be told, our attention would probably better be placed getting local and state reps elected.

[Matt Collins]

So you think "Head of Rand Paul's NH Campaign" is less specific than naming the person who screwed up then?

This particular topic isn't really about the guy who moved over to Kasich, as mentioned, it is about being indicative of a systemic problem.

The reason you think I am an evil idiot and you are a heroic god, is because you used a title where I dared to speak a name. The horror. Lol

I don't think you're evil.

[Crashland]

The systemic/underlying problem being what?

[Robrank]

The movement would exist today if it weren't for people like Matt Collins. The disrespect towards him is sickening.

As for this story. It's politics. The problem with a lot of us is that we expect a pure movement. Whether you like it or not, you need people entrenched in politics. Even the anti-establishment Trump and Sanders have had people who have been embedded in traditional politics their whole lives. When a campaign ends, you can't expect those individuals working on a campaign to drop dead or go nowhere else. There are more campaigns, there are more jobs. They are out of a job, they don't have a senate job to return to, they do what campaigners do, campaign elsewhere. Somewhere close enough to their beliefs that they are not sacrificing everything, but giving a service for a return of $$. While I think Kasich is a shill, I don't fault people getting a job.

[Matt Collins]

The systemic/underlying problem being what?

As for this story. It's politics. The problem with a lot of us is that we expect a pure movement. Whether you like it or not, you need people entrenched in politics. Even the anti-establishment Trump and Sanders have had people who have been embedded in traditional politics their whole lives. When a campaign ends, you can't expect those individuals working on a campaign to drop dead or go nowhere else. There are more campaigns, there are more jobs. They are out of a job, they don't have a senate job to return to, they do what campaigners do, campaign elsewhere. Somewhere close enough to their beliefs that they are not sacrificing everything, but giving a service for a return of $$. While I think Kasich is a shill, I don't fault people getting a job.

The point being is that if a staffer went to work for Cruz or even Trump that would make some sort of sense and be somewhat justified. Although I wouldn't particularly care for it I could at least understand that.


But for someone to support Rand and then turn around and support Kasich (who loves Obamacare and hates guns) just goes to show the underlying problem that there was no passion for the effort. One who is principled cannot do that.

[Crashland]

The point being is that if a staffer went to work for Cruz or even Trump that would make some sort of sense and be somewhat justified. Although I wouldn't particularly care for it I could at least understand that.


But for someone to support Rand and then turn around and support Kasich (who loves Obamacare and hates guns) just goes to show the underlying problem that there was no passion for the effort. One who is principled cannot do that.

So you are saying that the lack of passion was an internal problem and not an external one?

[PaleoPaul]

Maybe he's joining Team Kasich as a strategic plan to take down Rubio? I mean, as long as there are a bunch of Establishment candidates in the race, the more that dilutes the vote for Rubio, especially in an Establishment state like New Hampshire.

[Erazer]

Matt is right that this guy is a hired gun. He has no real allegiance to Rand, other than the fact he's paid by Rand. He also has a weak record, given the fact both his clients - Santorum in the primary and Romney in the general - lost NH in 2012.

What Matt deliberately ignores is that this guy didn't kill Rand's campaign. Rand was slumping well before NH, and in a lot of other states. Matt is looking for someone to blame here, and Biundo is an easy target.

This campaign was the brainchild of Doug Stafford. He devised the whole grand strategy of relying on college kids. He begged for money from big donors for his child adoption, humiliating Rand. He agitated against his own colleagues, sidelining and cutting out his own campaign manager from key discussions. And of course he was the one having an affair with Marianne Copenhaver, who was otherwise completely unqualified for her senior position within the campaign.

[Umad]

That is complete bull$#@!. Some people got their panties in a twist when after Ron send out an email saying his campaign was toast, Rand endorsed Romney, who clearly won.

They never got over it. And dug at Rand and dug at Rand every day thereafter.

Screw you guys. Really!

Those people were losertarians. Nothing more than a cancer to the liberty movement.

[Anti Federalist]

Wow, all I did was write one level-headed rational post-mortem after Greg Brannon's campaign and I became satan himself, but here you are blowing up all over the forums in multiple threads whining like a baby and this is supposed to be okay? You freaking hypocrite.

[Anti Federalist]

That is complete bull$#@!. Some people got their panties in a twist when after Ron send out an email saying his campaign was toast, Rand endorsed Romney, who clearly won.

They never got over it. And dug at Rand and dug at Rand every day thereafter.

Screw you guys. Really!

As a once accused "ringleader" of such a thing, I'm sure you can produce daily posts from me, "bashing" Rand.

I'll wait right here...

[erowe1]

No, unlike what you did I am not calling out specific people or blaming certain people for a loss or just running my mouth (and not knowing what you were talking about in the process).

That's one thing I'll say for you. While you do run your mouth without knowing what you're talking about, you manage not to give any specifics.

Good liars give details. The best liars don't.

[erowe1]

The movement would exist today if it weren't for people like Matt Collins.

Truth.

[GunnyFreedom]

As a once accused "ringleader" of such a thing, I'm sure you can produce daily posts from me, "bashing" Rand.

I'll wait right here...

You'll be waiting a long, long time. She still hasn't produced a shred of evidence of her absurd (and blatantly false) claim that I support an Article V convention, and yet she acts as though she totally believes her claim is true.

[wmmonk]

The point being is that if a staffer went to work for Cruz or even Trump that would make some sort of sense and be somewhat justified. Although I wouldn't particularly care for it I could at least understand that.


But for someone to support Rand and then turn around and support Kasich (who loves Obamacare and hates guns) just goes to show the underlying problem that there was no passion for the effort. One who is principled cannot do that.

Please. This is just as ridiculous as saying that Rand Paul isn't and wasn't principled because he endorsed Mitt Romney and Mitch McConnell...who defended the Iraq War, not reading the Constitution, the Patriot Act, etc., ohhh snap, nevermind. I guess you are right?

But, my real guess is this guy found another paycheck. Nothing more principled than making sure to keep getting fed notes, to feed oneself.

"The future if bright! Smile into the night! King Supreme, 2016!"

[Matt Collins]

So you are saying that the lack of passion was an internal problem and not an external one?

It was created by internal problems.

[Matt Collins]

What Matt deliberately ignores is that this guy didn't kill Rand's campaign. Rand was slumping well before NH, and in a lot of other states. Matt is looking for someone to blame here, and Biundo is an easy target.

No, not at all. I am not accusing MB of killing Rand's campaign, and I don't blame him for anything. I am however pointing out that the fact that he could so easily go over to someone like Kasich is indicative of a bigger systemic problem.

This campaign was the brainchild of Doug Stafford. He devised the whole grand strategy of relying on college kids. He begged for money from big donors for his child adoption, humiliating Rand. He agitated against his own colleagues, sidelining and cutting out his own campaign manager from key discussions. And of course he was the one having an affair with Marianne Copenhaver, who was otherwise completely unqualified for her senior position within the campaign.

Sounds like you work in the political industry?

Please tell us more about these things and how you came by this information. This is intriguing....

[r3volution 3.0]

That is complete bull$#@!. Some people got their panties in a twist when after Ron send out an email saying his campaign was toast, Rand endorsed Romney, who clearly won.

They never got over it. And dug at Rand and dug at Rand every day thereafter.

Screw you guys. Really!

^^that

Long ago, I learned that there is so placating or reasoning with such people; they simply have to be ignored.

They will never under any circumstances be of an value to any effort to achieve any real success.

For the purposes of the liberty movement going forward, they do not exist, and we move on.

[Gage]

As someone who knows Mike personally, I hold no animosity towards him and wish him all the best! He was a great part of Team Rand and loyal until the very end.

[muzzled dogg]

Wow, all I did was write one level-headed rational post-mortem after Greg Brannon's campaign and I became satan himself, but here you are blowing up all over the forums in multiple threads whining like a baby and this is supposed to be okay? You freaking hypocrite.

Got a link?

[GunnyFreedom]

Got a link?

This was in 2014 immediately following the end of Greg Brannon's campaign. I pointed out how Reilly O'Neil fumbled the ball, and confined it to a single thread. An advanced search for posts containing Reilly O'Neil and authored by me will probably turn it up. I'm posting from my cellphone right now or I'd try to dig up the link myself.

ETA - I can't find it under any of a dozen search terms. As I said, it was a single post, criticisms were kept to a single thread, and Matt has been freaking the hell out at me ever since for impugning O'Neil and Saber on account of my pointing out their gross tactical errors.

[GunnyFreedom]

Transitioning to doing the search on Google, I'm finding lots of Matt Collins trashing me for writing the post mortem, but not the post mortem itself.

That should probably lend a clue to how low-key the original post was and how much Collins blew it all out of proportion in order to stroke his own ego. :-/

[Brian4Liberty]

As someone who knows Mike personally, I hold no animosity towards him and wish him all the best! He was a great part of Team Rand and loyal until the very end.

Thanks for that informed opinion. +rep.

Now we return to the regularly scheduled arm-chair quarterback speculation and mud wrestling.