Sounds like a smart fella, he should run for President next time.Originally Posted by nikcers
That's so funny, I was thinking the same thing. How ironic would it be, a democratic/republican ticket. Maybe it would finally send the message home that both parties are the same thing. Its a shame though that it would have to be a Sanders/Paul ticket instead of Paul/Sanders
And the elephant in the room...FORCE. Bernie can't accomplish anything without resorting to force to loot your neighbors.
With Socialism, you have to take into account the long term effect on freedom, not just the short term. Yes, Sanders may increase freedom (in a couple ways) during his term, but he would pave the way for a future Socialist to push things too far. The American people won't be able to realize when things have gone too far left before we go past the tipping point of no return. If the U.S. fell to Socialism, there'd be no Left Vs. Right interest left in the world, and interest in politics would go down over night. A dumbed down population that has no political interest is very vulnerable to corruption, especially if the tax code, laws etc. are extremely complicated as a result of Socialism. Our only possible savior is a Capitalist that treats freedom as a moral issue, like Rand Paul.
That's the media narrative - When China's economy tanked they bailed themselves out with our economy, our economy is stuck on this oil bubble and its looking to crash soon, but in the mean time it has kept our checks cashing, basically all of the job growth has come from Obamacare(which is going to build its own bubble because it was designed to fail) and oil. The middle east is all about propping up our economy.
We put heavy sanctions on Iran/Russia, we flood the market with ethanol and oil from hydraulic fracking that's all subsidized by government market manipulation we didn't even let Canada do their pipeline.. Now we have the highest stockpile of oil right now. We use our control over the oil market as an economic weapon against Russia/Iran and to get cheap labor and interest.
IMHO there are some rational reasons for a libertarian voter to support Bernie:
1. If elected, it would mark the first time a truly grassroots, crowd-funded candidate (in the same vein that Ron Paul was crowd-funded) is elected President. This would be a positive step for our democracy. And yes as a libertarian I recognize democracy is evil but the fake, corrupt democracy we have is even worse. We may need to reform democracy in this country before we can use democracy to reform and reduce the size of government.
2. Bernie would be the first candidate in a long time (or forever?) to be fueled in large part by a young constituency, which is famous for being politically uninvolved. This too would be good long term as the youth are more open-minded to liberty than the older generations.
3. Bernie seems very interested in un-corrupting our democratic process. I'm very skeptical he can actually move the needle on this, but if he's able to do this, it might help us down the road in getting an un-corrupt liberty candidate on the main debate stages.
4. Without going through the laundry list, Bernie does have a lot of positions that are steps in the right direction for liberty
5. He does target the banks, albeit not in the same way we do. More attention focused on banks-as-villains could help us in educating more Americans about the Fed.
Obviously, the biggest downside to Bernie is he wants to grow government and cut even further into economic liberty. That makes it a big gamble to support him. On the other hand, if it's Bernie vs. Hillary, at least Bernie's presidency would come with the above upsides in addition to the downsides.
I think Bernie's grassroots, authentic rise could trigger an equal and opposite reaction on the liberty side -- a bigger version of the Ron Paul phenomenon.
That's my two cents. Not sure if I'll actually vote for Bernie but I am considering it.
FTFY
He isn't a neocon and doesn't support neocon wars, he isn't owned by the banks, and he isn't a psychopath. The republicans have a majority in congress and he wouldn't be able to enact any of the most painful death sentences he could with a democrat majority. He is so old he will only last 4 years and then we can put our guy in. He wouldn't be able to do much more then the socialist progressive we have in office, except control our troops.
I also think Bernie and Ron Paul (through their success) and Rand Paul (through his failure) have demonstrated that the only likely route to victory for a real grassroots candidate is to be authentic and candid like Ron Paul, not to triangulate like Rand attempted to do (for the record, I've been very supportive of Rand's strategy and defended it in the past, but in hindsight I think it was destined to fail). So we need someone authentic for 2020. Other than Justin Amash or Thomas Massie, I'm not sure who could fit the bill for that. Unless Rand can reinvent himself as being more in his father's mold. Maybe he just has to have a moment of candor where he says "I tried being a politician, thinking the ends would justify the means, and I learned the hard way that my father was right, it's a fool's errand. I'm through being 'political'"
Pay attention to his re-election, its going to be more interesting and substantive then the national debate. They are going to have a tougher election in KY then in the white house, the democrats are going to win the whitehouse by a landslide because they didn't pick Rand. Rand is going to stomp the progressive groupthink mindset and it will get national attention from all the republicans.
Not sure how either of those things would help us...
If Bernie manages to win on small donations, how would that help us win on small donations?
If Bernie gets the youth to turn out for him, how would that help us get the youth to turn out for us?
Bernie would have no ability to influence how the GOP/media organizes the GOP debates.3. Bernie seems very interested in un-corrupting our democratic process. I'm very skeptical he can actually move the needle on this, but if he's able to do this, it might help us down the road in getting an un-corrupt liberty candidate on the main debate stages.
He could influence the Democratic debate process, but I doubt he really would, and we're not running candidates in the Democratic Party anyway (and for good reason).
He's mildly anti-war and pro civil liberties. He's the very worst candidate on either side on economic issues.4. Without going through the laundry list, Bernie does have a lot of positions that are steps in the right direction for liberty
...not nearly enough overlap to make me even consider voting for him.
I don't see any overlap at all on this front.5. He does target the banks, albeit not in the same way we do. More attention focused on banks-as-villains could help us in educating more Americans about the Fed.
Being anti-bank, in the sense of wanting to nationalize them, has nothing to do with being pro-market.
Being anti-Fed, because you think it hasn't printed enough money, has nothing to do with opposing central banking.
He's not educating people, he's leading them to a 'cure' for the banking problem that worse than the disease.
Candidates promise a lot of things.
All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
-Albert Camus
Yes, he is the worst on economic issues, but he would experience the same sort of grid lock Obama does if the Senate majority used their power of the purse. Everything he is the worst at he would have trouble passing in the centrist congress. He is the lesser of all evil if Rand isn't in the race, I won't put money on him or campaign for him but I would vote for him over trump/rubio/cruz/bush/clinton. That being said, I think he will lose the democratic nomination though and endorse Clinton.
Or he could sell out on civil liberties and foreign policy in exchange for Congress passing some of his free$#@! programs.
...I've always gotten the impression that the vast majority of progressives are pro-welfare first and foremost, and only anti-war/pro-civil-liberties when convenient.
I'm seeing the same thing myself, especially in NH.
I'm going to do the following:
Write in Ron Paul.
Hope for a Bernie win.
Gun rights are an important issue for me, and another leftist, as long as there is solid gridlock at the congressional level, is the best thing to happen for gun sales.
I definitely think Sanders is likely running to unite progressive democrats and moderate democrats in the general election. They wanted to have a contested primary and didn't want a coronation for clinton. That's why I wouldn't vote for him in anything but a Sanders Vs corruptocrat general election, and I wouldn't spend my precious time and money on a false choice.
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