The Supreme Court Would Rule that Ted Cruz is Eligible

[DuxTexanii]

I've been checking in here to check up on the status of Rand's campaign. Anyway, now that this hasn't worked out like we wanted, I still share many of your reservations about Ted Cruz, but I think some of the attacks on his eligibility are a bit over the top. This article explains why the Supreme Court would rule he is eligible.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...y-memo/424206/

Of course, the follow up is "how is this different from Wickard v. Filburn or Roe v. Wade?" I think reasonable people can disagree on how the court should rule, but the article provides a solid enough case to show that, at the very least, the case for his eligibility is reasonable enough that it isn't just judicial activism (or passivity in the face of democratic consensus) to hold he is eligible.

[specsaregood]

All hat, no cattle. Let's see it adjudicated and put the matter to rest. He is ineligible in my mind, no matter the SC decision.

[dannno]

What year did his mom become a Canadian citizen?

[Jan2017]

Questions of the eligibility of a foreign born commander of the army are not "over the top" -
they are what the delegates voted unanimously for (or nearly unanimously) to be included in the draft of the new Constitution
during a mid-August 1787 vote.

George Washington thanked his patriot colleague John Jay for the very well received suggestion to that Constitutional Convention
in a personal letter to Jay in September 1787.

Albertan-Texan TrusTed Cruz needs to amend the constitution first before eligibility as a VP even.

[CaptUSA]

I agree that he may be eligible, but I doubt that he's plausible.

Never have I seen a man who is nearly universally hated on a personal level that way Teddy is.

[CPUd]

His facebook page is amusing though. Now that he got called on the bull$#@! claims about how his campaign didn't have anything to do with the gaslighting against Carson, they are desperately trying to pin it on Rubio's campaign.

[sparebulb]

I've been checking in here to check up on the status of Rand's campaign. Anyway, now that this hasn't worked out like we wanted, I still share many of your reservations about Ted Cruz, but I think some of the attacks on his eligibility are a bit over the top. This article explains why the Supreme Court would rule he is eligible.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...y-memo/424206/

Of course, the follow up is "how is this different from Wickard v. Filburn or Roe v. Wade?" I think reasonable people can disagree on how the court should rule, but the article provides a solid enough case to show that, at the very least, the case for his eligibility is reasonable enough that it isn't just judicial activism (or passivity in the face of democratic consensus) to hold he is eligible.

You really seem like a rabid Paul supporter.

Thanks for coming around to pump Ted Goldman.

[RDM]

Thanks to the SC decision, we should all be very, very thankful Kim Jung Un did not have a American mother.

[sparebulb]

Thanks to the SC decision, we should all be very, very thankful Kim Jung Un did not have a American mother.

We could posthumously make Winston Churchill president.

[Jan2017]

. . . I doubt that he's plausible.

Never have I seen a man who is nearly universally hated on a personal level that way Teddy is.

Even his family must dislike how he'd use his own kids as props with both the
Green Eggs and Ham reading in the United States Senate or the over the top Christmas 2015 ad . . .



.]

[DuxTexanii]

Questions of the eligibility of a foreign born commander of the army are not "over the top"

I am not saying that the questions are over the top, I am saying that the rapid opposition to his eligibility is a bit absurd. There are reasonable arguments on both sides, and it looks pretty clear that the Supreme Court would go with the reasonable arguments in favor of his eligibility. If you dislike his often sounding like a fake-preacher, fine. Likewise it's fair to be annoyed that he jumped in the race and undermined a more (general election) viable small government candidate. There are many legitimate reasons to oppose Cruz, but I am seeing people here indicate that Cruz's supposed ineligibility would make the democrats win, and that appears not to be an issue as far as Supreme Court rulings go (now, if enough voters bail on him because of that, that's different, but it looks like the Supreme Court would hold him eligible, and it looks like the Supreme Court would have decent reasons for doing so, it wouldn't just be another Wickard v. Filburn type of thing).

[Fivezeroes]

I am not saying that the questions are over the top, I am saying that the rapid opposition to his eligibility is a bit absurd. There are reasonable arguments on both sides, and it looks pretty clear that the Supreme Court would go with the reasonable arguments in favor of his eligibility. If you dislike his often sounding like a fake-preacher, fine. Likewise it's fair to be annoyed that he jumped in the race and undermined a more (general election) viable small government candidate. There are many legitimate reasons to oppose Cruz, but I am seeing people here indicate that Cruz's supposed ineligibility would make the democrats win, and that appears not to be an issue as far as Supreme Court rulings go (now, if enough voters bail on him because of that, that's different, but it looks like the Supreme Court would hold him eligible, and it looks like the Supreme Court would have decent reasons for doing so, it wouldn't just be another Wickard v. Filburn type of thing).

Canada did not accept or recognize dual citizenship until 1976, a full 6 years AFTER Rafael was born. Which would mean his mother would have had to renounce her American citizenship to get aide from the Canadian government and to get on its voter census's. Rafael is not a natural born American citizen, it amazes me at how people can misinterpret what natural born citizen actually means.

[Jan2017]

. . . and it looks pretty clear that the Supreme Court would go with the reasonable arguments in favor of his eligibility.

Not even close . . .

Cruz's definite foreign birth will exclude him from ever being constitutionally eligible as commander of the army -
juror/voter nullification will exclude him whether before or after TrusTed gets to defend formal challenges
through Supreme Court interpretation of the Presidential Eligibility Clause of the US Constitution.

The Albertan-American Senator is only eligible as the Acting President - an actual, formal designation that does not need to meet the constitutional requirement of the Presidential Eligibility Clause.

[Voluntarist]

xxxxx

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Cruz was born in Canada and raised as a Canadian. I don't see how there is any debate about his nationality. If he was a natural born citizen then he wouldn't have had to be "naturalized" in 2005.

[dannno]

Is his mother currently registered to vote in the US? ... I believe she is.
If so then she is a US citizen.
If she wasn't naturalized then she never gave up her US Citizenship.
If she didn't give up her US citizenship, then Raphael is an NBC of the US.

She gave up her US citizenship sometime before 1974 when she voted in the Canadian elections. Ted Cruz was born in 1970. What year did Ted Cruz' mother become a Canadian citizen?

[dannno]

Canada did not accept or recognize dual citizenship until 1976, a full 6 years AFTER Rafael was born. Which would mean his mother would have had to renounce her American citizenship to get aide from the Canadian government and to get on its voter census's. Rafael is not a natural born American citizen, it amazes me at how people can misinterpret what natural born citizen actually means.

It doesn't matter much if Canada recognizes dual citizenship, the US, legally, does NOT recognize dual citizenship if you, say, are an American citizen who then pledges allegiance to another nation and becomes a citizen there.

THe US DOES recognize dual citizenship if you are a citizen of another country, then you become a US citizen and the country that you come from continues to recognize you as a citizen legally. Israel is one such country that allows this, which is how we have dual citizenship Israelis.

[Jan2017]

This is not a citizenship case - it is a "native" born case with the Presidential Eligibility Clause no less.

No border problem as with Chestur Arthur, George Romney, Barry Goldwater, or John McCain -
not about US Territory or not, on-base or not,
or even about an international territory problem which also excludes POTUS/VP eligibility to command the army.

Maybe Cruz could see the USA from his birthplace though with a telescope, if the earth curvature doesn't get in the way
for an SNL skit a la Tina Fey with the "punchable face" guy.

[Jan2017]

The "legal memo" author for The Atlantic does not even consider the definition they were voting on at the constitutional convention . . . (?)

. . . to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government;
and to declare expressly that the Command in chief of the american army shall not be given to, nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen."

[Voluntarist]

xxxxx

[Voluntarist]

xxxxx

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I'm pretty sure it was his father, Rafael Bienvenido Cruz, that became a naturalized US citizen in 2005 ... not Rafael Eduardo (Ted)

Ya you're right, whoops, either way still not natural born

[DuxTexanii]

Wasn't Cruz's mother just on a list that people took from going door to door? If she had voted in Canadian elections there would be a record of that, right? So if you are claiming she voted in Canadian elections you are spreading an exaggerated version of the facts, right?

Don't we have evidence that natural born citizen was sometimes applied to citizens born overseas and sometimes not, leaving it an open question whether being a citizen from birth is sufficient? Congress can't re-write the constitution, but Congress does have the authority to create a uniform rule of naturalization--it seems that a reasonable person might conclude that this includes some authority to define which cases don't require naturalization. A reasonable person might disagree that the Court should rule this way, but it seems pretty clear that it would.

[Zippyjuan]

Cruz was born in Canada and raised as a Canadian. I don't see how there is any debate about his nationality. If he was a natural born citizen then he wouldn't have had to be "naturalized" in 2005.

His family left Canada when he was three. He attended elementary and high school in Houston, Texas which is not in Canada. Does that qualify as "raised Canadian"?

[Zippyjuan]

Quote

Originally Posted by dannno View Post
She gave up her US citizenship sometime before 1974 when she voted in the Canadian elections.

Unless she made a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state, in the form prescribed by the US Secretary of State ... the US still claims her as a citizen. But she didn't make that formal renunciation.

If she voted in Canadian elections, it might point out some issues with the Canadian voting system (which could probably pose some legal penalties for her if the Canadian government chose to pursue them) ... but it has no bearing on her US citizenship.

1974 was the year the family moved from Canada to Texas. The election in Canada that year was October (haven't found what month they moved) so either they moved before that election or right afterwards-they possibly weren't even there to vote so why register? I guess she gave up her citizenship just before she moved back to the US? A silly argument (which has no evidence to support it).

Cruz's father came to the US in 1957. He was a legal resident for over a decade before they moved temporarily to Canada in 1967.

Canada has a four year residency requirement to become a citizen and in the case of his mother, she entered Canada in 1967 would not have hit five years by the time Ted was born in December 1970. If she did apply (and there is no evidence she did), she would have still been a US citizen at the time of his birth.

How the "list" was compiled (it did not come from official voter registrations):

"So when they knock on doors, they ask them: are you Canadian citizens, are you 18 years of age or older, and are you a resident in this facility and how long have you been living here?" Drew Westwater, the director of election operations and communications for Elections Alberta, told TPM. "If they meet all that criteria then they add them to the list, take their name and addresses and anyone else who's living there. And they ask, is anyone else living here a Canadian citizen 18 years of age or older? And if they are, then they take their names from them at the door. And that's the way it worked in those days."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckrak...ian-voter-list

[Voluntarist]

xxxxx

[Jan2017]

With US Senator Ted Cruz renouncing his Calgary, Alberta birthright on May 14, 2014,
I'd wonder what years he paid his income taxes to Canada on his (foreign) U.S. earnings ?

Or does he probably owe Canada back taxes for earnings he didn't report to his native country yet ?

[Jan2017]

. . . based upon the weight of prevailing opinion, it's likely to be decided in Cruz's favor.

What weight ?
There has been no amendment to the Constitution that changes anything about the exclusion of a Foreigner to the executive post of the nation.

[DuxTexanii]

Jan2017, most countries don't require taxes on foreign earnings, that's a U.S. thing, in any case it is possible Cruz didn't know that Canada considered him a citizen.

What weight ?
There has been no amendment to the Constitution that changes anything about the exclusion of a Foreigner to the executive post of the nation.

But Cruz was, under current U.S. law, considered a U.S. citizen the moment he was born, right? So the debate is whether to categorize this as "naturalized at birth" or as a form of natural born citizenship. Right?

[Jan2017]

. . . most countries don't require taxes on foreign earnings, that's a U.S. thing, . . .

" dual Canadian-American citizenship is double the work when tax time rolls ..."
Where did his Mommy and Daddy Cruz pay taxes during Teddy's early formative years in the Canadian Rockies ?