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Thread: Why Rand Paul supporters should take heart tonight

  1. #1

    Why Rand Paul supporters should take heart tonight

    The nonintervention faction of the Republican party (those opposed to unconstitutional and/or stupid wars) should take heart that the top two candidates tonight are both on record as clearly opposing the Iraq War, albeit after the invasion. Trump and Cruz also share a strong skepticism of the establishment’s arming of so-called “moderate rebels” in Syria.

    While I support Rand Paul, it’s encouraging to remember Ted Cruz has also been rightly accusing Rubio of having the same foreign policy as Hillary Clinton. Of course, not as awesomely as Rand has...

    Somehow, I think a certain older Dr. Paul’s ideas might still be gaining momentum?

    It’s going to be a long, long primary season and it may all come down to the convention. Hold on…

    We should take heart tonight and focus on the very real threat of Rubio...

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  3. #2

    Carpet Bombing For Liberty!

    Quote Originally Posted by radiofriendly View Post
    The nonintervention faction of the Republican party (those opposed to unconstitutional and/or stupid wars) should take heart that the top two candidates tonight are both on record as clearly opposing the Iraq War, albeit after the invasion. Trump and Cruz also share a strong skepticism of the establishment’s arming of so-called “moderate rebels” in Syria.

    While I support Rand Paul, it’s encouraging to remember Ted Cruz has also been rightly accusing Rubio of having the same foreign policy as Hillary Clinton. Of course, not as awesomely as Rand has...

    Somehow, I think a certain older Dr. Paul’s ideas might still be gaining momentum?

    It’s going to be a long, long primary season and it may all come down to the convention. Hold on…

    We should take heart tonight and focus on the very real threat of Rubio...

    Linkage: http://iroots.org/2016/02/01/iowa-re...nt-in-trouble/
    Right, because wanting to see "the sand glow" in the Middle East is definitely a noninterventionist position.
    "Then David said to the Philistine, 'You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of Yahweh of hosts, the God of the battle lines of Israel, Whom you have reproached.'" - 1 Samuel 17:45

    "May future generations look back on our work and say that these were men and women who, in moment of great crisis, stood up to their politicians, the opinion-makers, and the Establishment, and saved their country." - Dr. Ron Paul

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    Right, because wanting to see "the sand glow" in the Middle East is definitely a noninterventionist position.
    Seriously.

    These guys are all pieces of $#@! that will say whatever gets them votes.

    ONE man. I repeat ONE $#@!ing man actually is consistent in his message of peace, liberty, and responsible spending.

    The rest of them can $#@! right off.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    Right, because wanting to see "the sand glow" in the Middle East is definitely a noninterventionist position.
    Seriously, Ted Cruz non interventionalist... uhh no way! The guy hijacks Paul's ideas word for word until it comes to war, then he's a total neocon fear mongerer!

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    Right, because wanting to see "the sand glow" in the Middle East is definitely a noninterventionist position.
    This^^ OP seems to be wishful thinking to me. War-mongering WRT Iran and Syria has been popular in teh GOP in recent years, and the anti-war faction of the Partei isn't allowed a significant voice in MSM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
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  7. #6
    I honestly don't know what Cruz's foreign policy would really be like. I don't believe him when he says he's the liberty candidate but I also don't believe him when he talks about carpet bombing the middle east. Basically I don't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.
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  8. #7
    Damn it. When will it end with the Cruz crap? The man literally is running to make Israel Great Again.
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  9. #8
    As much as I despise Donald Trump, there is one grain of truth to the OP in his case, namely that Trump's bloodthirsty rhetoric on the Mid-East question is more reactionary than it is interventionist. My major hang up with Trump on the foreign policy front is his irrational hostility towards the Far East, and particularly China. Likewise, the guy's economic views are obnoxiously authoritarian and so diametrically opposed to the market principles that actually creates wealth as he comes off less as a mere protectionist and more like a dyed-in-the-wool, old school mercantile ideologue, to the point of becoming a parody version of what Adam Smith was deriding in "Wealth Of Nations".



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by hells_unicorn View Post
    As much as I despise Donald Trump, there is one grain of truth to the OP in his case, namely that Trump's bloodthirsty rhetoric on the Mid-East question is more reactionary than it is interventionist. My major hang up with Trump on the foreign policy front is his irrational hostility towards the Far East, and particularly China. Likewise, the guy's economic views are obnoxiously authoritarian and so diametrically opposed to the market principles that actually creates wealth as he comes off less as a mere protectionist and more like a dyed-in-the-wool, old school mercantile ideologue, to the point of becoming a parody version of what Adam Smith was deriding in "Wealth Of Nations".
    Therefore, VERMIN SUPREME 2016!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
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  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Therefore, VERMIN SUPREME 2016!!!
    I'll be laughed at for asking probably, but what the heck is VERMIN SUPREME?

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by hells_unicorn View Post
    As much as I despise Donald Trump, there is one grain of truth to the OP in his case, namely that Trump's bloodthirsty rhetoric on the Mid-East question is more reactionary than it is interventionist. My major hang up with Trump on the foreign policy front is his irrational hostility towards the Far East, and particularly China. Likewise, the guy's economic views are obnoxiously authoritarian and so diametrically opposed to the market principles that actually creates wealth as he comes off less as a mere protectionist and more like a dyed-in-the-wool, old school mercantile ideologue, to the point of becoming a parody version of what Adam Smith was deriding in "Wealth Of Nations".
    I can get with this point. Trump isn't trying to launch a new front in the war to control the world. Like Rubio and Cruz. Yes, Cruz. Cruz supports Israel more than he supports America. And Israel wants destabilization and expansion in the ME.
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    "I want to be President, not because I want to run your lives. I don't want to run the economy, and I don't want to run the world. I want to be President to restore liberty."

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  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by 01000110 View Post
    I'll be laughed at for asking probably, but what the heck is VERMIN SUPREME?
    He promises ponies for everyone and wears a boot on his head. TBH, a worthy second choice.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Chieppa1 View Post
    Damn it. When will it end with the Cruz crap? The man literally is running to make Israel Great Again.
    Even feigned support of nonintervention is a sign that the ideas are popular and making the establishment really squirm. See the videos in my link. Glowing sand aside, Cruz really is accusing Rubio of being for too much intervention and regime change. Does he mean it? i don't know, but I can be encouraged that we are on a side that is strategically winning...
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  16. #14
    I will take heart in the fact that if either Trump or Cruz takes the nomination, the GOP will lose the election. Now, if the Dems can make Sanders their nominee and he becomes president, we'll have a state of gridlock between congress and the WH. I think that's the best thing short of a Rand Paul presidency.

  17. #15
    The OP is correct although I understand the skeptical posters as well. I saw Donald Trump giving a speech in Iowa today asking why we are paying for the defense of rich countries like Germany, South Korea etc. Pretty much the same thing Ron was saying on this day 4 years ago. Although the politicians echoing ideas we support may not mean they themselves really support or care about such ideas it means our ideas are now politically acceptable and gaining traction.
    "Look, the American people have chosen to have a fiat money standard because they want a welfare state. You cannot have a gold standard and a welfare state at the same time. You have to make the choice. We have made a decision as a society that we’ll be dealing with the welfare state." -Alan Greenspan

  18. #16

    Why Does Cruz Want the Sand to Glow?

    Quote Originally Posted by radiofriendly View Post
    Even feigned support of nonintervention is a sign that the ideas are popular and making the establishment really squirm. See the videos in my link. Glowing sand aside, Cruz really is accusing Rubio of being for too much intervention and regime change. Does he mean it? i don't know, but I can be encouraged that we are on a side that is strategically winning...
    No, we don't cast aside Cruz's wanting to see "sand glow" in the Middle East. He needs to be held accountable for that position, especially since it entails murdering innocent civilians, which is not a pro-life position (as Cruz claims to be).
    "Then David said to the Philistine, 'You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of Yahweh of hosts, the God of the battle lines of Israel, Whom you have reproached.'" - 1 Samuel 17:45

    "May future generations look back on our work and say that these were men and women who, in moment of great crisis, stood up to their politicians, the opinion-makers, and the Establishment, and saved their country." - Dr. Ron Paul



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzu View Post
    I will take heart in the fact that if either Trump or Cruz takes the nomination, the GOP will lose the election. Now, if the Dems can make Sanders their nominee and he becomes president, we'll have a state of gridlock between congress and the WH. I think that's the best thing short of a Rand Paul presidency.
    I think both Trump and Cruz are more electable than you think but either way a clinton/sanders presidency will not just be a gridlock with nothing bad or good happening. The next 25 years of supreme court decisions will be influenced by the next president and I'd much rather have a republican choosing them. John Roberts screwed us but by and large the justices chosen by republicans have been ten fold better than the likes of sonya sotomayor who will literally do whatever her party tell her to do. Also with the regulatory power by agencies like the EPA being essentially unelected law makers, A bernie sanders EPA would be a disaster.
    "Look, the American people have chosen to have a fiat money standard because they want a welfare state. You cannot have a gold standard and a welfare state at the same time. You have to make the choice. We have made a decision as a society that we’ll be dealing with the welfare state." -Alan Greenspan

  21. #18
    Lolwut. The winner has been talking about saturation and carpet bombing indiscriminately. But non-interventionists should be happy? LOLOLOLOL...
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  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by dbill27 View Post
    I think both Trump and Cruz are more electable than you think but either way a clinton/sanders presidency will not just be a gridlock with nothing bad or good happening. The next 25 years of supreme court decisions will be influenced by the next president and I'd much rather have a republican choosing them. John Roberts screwed us but by and large the justices chosen by republicans have been ten fold better than the likes of sonya sotomayor who will literally do whatever her party tell her to do. Also with the regulatory power by agencies like the EPA being essentially unelected law makers, A bernie sanders EPA would be a disaster.
    Yes, but I think Sanders would be least likely to bring about WWIII. That's majorly important, above and beyond all else. Because if we get WWIII, that's REALLY the end of it all.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by 01000110 View Post
    I'll be laughed at for asking probably, but what the heck is VERMIN SUPREME?
    Only one of the greatest POTUS candidates EVARRRR!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzu View Post
    Yes, but I think Sanders would be least likely to bring about WWIII. That's majorly important, above and beyond all else. Because if we get WWIII, that's REALLY the end of it all.
    I see sanders as being a four year president, seating half of the supreme court, implementing all sorts of anti-business regulations and executive orders before kicking the bucket or losing re-election and then the next guy starts ww3.
    "Look, the American people have chosen to have a fiat money standard because they want a welfare state. You cannot have a gold standard and a welfare state at the same time. You have to make the choice. We have made a decision as a society that we’ll be dealing with the welfare state." -Alan Greenspan

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    This^^ OP seems to be wishful thinking to me. War-mongering WRT Iran and Syria has been popular in teh GOP in recent years, and the anti-war faction of the Partei isn't allowed a significant voice in MSM.
    Ummmm....you're wrong. Neither Trump nor Cruz are "war-mongering" when it comes to Syria. Iran? Yes on Cruz. Not sure about Trump. But both have taken a totally non-interventionist "Assad should be allowed to stay" position on Syria. And considering that Syria is the war right now, that's important. Iran isn't going to do anything to give the next president, no matter who he or she (oh please Lord not Hillary) is, an excuse to attack or invade. And Iran does sectarian divide that Syria had which allowed for civil war. So if the Syrian war slows down, that's it for war for the immediate future. Meanwhile Rubio, Kasich, Christie, Clinton and other idiots are calling for no fly zones over Syria and confrontation with the Russians. That's world war III. The distinction between Trump and Cruz and Sanders war mongers in both parties should not be overlooked.
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    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by adam220891 View Post
    Seriously.

    These guys are all pieces of $#@! that will say whatever gets them votes.
    Yes but I think the op's point is that they're at least lying to look libertarian these days like its cool.



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  27. #24
    OP makes good point. Other observations:

    1) Cruz is no Rand, but he's more libertarian than most any candidate we've seen in a generation (other than Ron and Rand). I realize the bar is low. If Cruz wins the nomination, I believe Rand could be on his short list for VP.

    2) This could've been a VERY interesting race if Trump didn't run. I believe Rand would've easily been top 3. Tough break.

    3) If Trump implodes at any point, where do his votes go - Cruz or Rubio?



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by adam220891 View Post
    Seriously.

    These guys are all pieces of $#@! that will say whatever gets them votes.

    ONE man. I repeat ONE $#@!ing man actually is consistent in his message of peace, liberty, and responsible spending.

    The rest of them can $#@! right off.
    Amen.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by gee_blee View Post
    OP makes good point. Other observations:

    1) Cruz is no Rand, but he's more libertarian than most any candidate we've seen in a generation (other than Ron and Rand). I realize the bar is low. If Cruz wins the nomination, I believe Rand could be on his short list for VP.

    2) This could've been a VERY interesting race if Trump didn't run. I believe Rand would've easily been top 3. Tough break.

    3) If Trump implodes at any point, where do his votes go - Cruz or Rubio?
    Cruz is Goldman Sachs' bitch, and you're delusional, as is anyone else who thinks he is anti-intervention or anti-establishment.

  31. #27
    Cruz will not be the nominee. Let's put this into perspective: Trump has the highest unfavorability rating as well as a plurality of the support. A Cruz "win" was nothing more than a repudiation of Trump and his idiot cult members. Cruz only earned his win insofar as he positioned himself as the strongest anti-Trump. Most of his support will fade if Trump does, and the idiot voters will disperse back to some of the other nuts on the stage. A brokered convention is still very much a possibility. Where Rand stands in all this is unclear; not hopeless, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

  32. #28
    Prior to the December 15th CNN debate, Cruz, in terms of positions, looked like the go-to "backup" for Paul. Cruz's foreign policy had the caution with toppling of a libertarian, but with the aggression of a conservative. But the theme of that debate was foreign policy and security, and Cruz realized that he would have to exaggerate some to get votes from the establishment base. That was when he started the whole "Carpet bomb them!" big talk. At first, I thought he was just doing what Trump does by talking big and pretending to be big on military spending. But Cruz never let up on it afterwards, and his actual foreign policy stance seems to be getting more aggressive, especially when he talks about rebuilding the military. It's still very possible that Cruz hasn't really changed his foreign policy from his balanced one, and that he is just big talking his way into getting the mainstream Republican vote. But even if this is the case, then it means he's saying whatever he needs to to get elected, which us Paul supporters don't appreciate. We want full honesty and logic.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by randbot16 View Post
    Cruz is Goldman Sachs' bitch
    Evidence?

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by adam220891 View Post
    Seriously.

    These guys are all pieces of $#@! that will say whatever gets them votes.

    ONE man. I repeat ONE $#@!ing man actually is consistent in his message of peace, liberty, and responsible spending.

    The rest of them can $#@! right off.
    QFT
    "I am a bird"

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