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Thread: AZ - Unarmed man shot dead by cop for non-compliance

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post


    He has been going on about Police violence lately. Is that in the wind these days?
    I pray to God that is so. Admittedly I haven't listened to him in years. He was very pro-cop in the day. My impression of him at the time was that he was a great showman who could play on the emotions of his listeners very well. Even the way his rants build for the commercial breaks so you want to stick around. If that is true, I hope that is what he is reading of his listeners.

    On the other hand, it could be that this case was beyond the ordinary. It should be a normal reaction for any sane person. Instinctively, I usually have no respect for men who cry in public. This video was an exception. That poor man knew there was nothing he could do to save his life-- I can't imagine the fear, frustration, humiliation he felt in those last few minutes. He was at the mercy of a psychopath. That video wrenched my heart and I am usually pretty numb to these things these days.

    Brailsford is pure evil. It seems like all these psychopath killers have the eyes of snakes.

    ...



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Give me a break. If training is the only thing preventing you from executing civilians then you are already $#@!ed up and should not be allowed to serve and protect.
    So it's all good to train cops to view every citizen as a crazed killer with a gun, to escalate every situation, to yell and demand compliance, to intimidate, to shoot on the slightest twitch or failure to comprehend shouting and contradictory orders, and that everyone is the enemy? No changes in training needed then?
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  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    I pray to God that is so. Admittedly I haven't listened to him in years. He was very pro-cop in the day. My impression of him at the time was that he was a great showman who could play on the emotions of his listeners very well. Even the way his rants build for the commercial breaks so you want to stick around. If that is true, I hope that is what he is reading of his listeners.

    On the other hand, it could be that this case was beyond the ordinary. It should be a normal reaction for any sane person. Instinctively, I usually have no respect for men who cry in public. This video was an exception. That poor man knew there was nothing he could do to save his life-- I can't imagine the fear, frustration, humiliation he felt in those last few minutes. He was at the mercy of a psychopath. That video wrenched my heart and I am usually pretty numb to these things these days.

    Brailsford is pure evil. It seems like all these psychopath killers have the eyes of snakes.
    Savage talks a lot about how psycho the person doing the shouting is. It seems to me that it was the senior officer doing the shouting, and this kid was the one who did the shooting. I'd place more blame on the shouter than the shooter in this case. Never underestimate the emotional dynamics that were created by the shouter (and the previous training). He whipped the entire situation into an out of control frenzy.

    If the kid was the shouter and the shooter, than it's all on him.
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  5. #64
    Surprisingly (to me) this has been covered on the CBS Evening News and NBC Nightly News tonight, with them showing the worst parts of the body cam video, for millions to see.

    All the copsuckers I've seen online are circling the wagons and going on and on about how he "reached for his waist band, so the cop just had to shoot" -- but I doubt the people who saw the body cam footage in the news stories even noticed that part, since the part before is so horrifying.

    Every time this happens it's just more fuel for a potential fire at some point (it remains to be see if it will ever be lit off ) -- tick tock ...
    Last edited by SeanTX; 12-08-2017 at 06:27 PM.



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    So it's all good to train cops to view every citizen as a crazed killer with a gun, to escalate every situation, to yell and demand compliance, to intimidate, to shoot on the slightest twitch or failure to comprehend shouting and contradictory orders, and that everyone is the enemy? No changes in training needed then?
    You are missing my point. The way they are trained is probably just a symptom of a bigger problem with the police. Why does the police see the population as enemy? Is this only because of the training they receive or is there a culture of violence which is tolerated or maybe even encouraged by the higher ups? This guy is at best a patsy and should not be the only one taking a fall for this.

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by SeanTX View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mjr0Ts6yORE

    That was a straight up execution. The man was flat on the ground, face down, legs crossed, his hands on the back of his head, scared to the point of crying, and with a rifle fixed on his head. All the executioners had to do was have one go up cuff him while he was face down prone.

    But instead the idiot executioners bark confusing orders - put your hands flat on the ground, push yourself up, then screaming like a crazed maniac "put you hands in the air." At that point I could barely understand what the executioner was screaming. Then Brailsford orders him to crawl with his legs crossed.

    The orders gave the impression they were seeking to shoot the victim. He told the panicked victim several times "we are going to shoot you," "we will shoot you" if he got any barked out confusing orders wrong, especially while doing the crossed-legged yoga crawl while his pants were sliding down.

    I guess the only positive is at least he was charged. It wasn't the police or the state that exonerated him but the jury.
    Last edited by AZJoe; 12-08-2017 at 08:48 PM.
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  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    You are missing my point. The way they are trained is probably just a symptom of a bigger problem with the police. Why does the police see the population as enemy? Is this only because of the training they receive or is there a culture of violence which is tolerated or maybe even encouraged by the higher ups? This guy is at best a patsy and should not be the only one taking a fall for this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    So it's all good to train cops to view every citizen as a crazed killer with a gun, to escalate every situation, to yell and demand compliance, to intimidate, to shoot on the slightest twitch or failure to comprehend shouting and contradictory orders, and that everyone is the enemy? No changes in training needed then?
    Why, why, why, why, $#@!ING WHY?
    Why do people on this site still act like this is not EXACTLY THE POINT OF HAVING COPS?

    Come on guys, you've all seen the same cases as everyone else. You've all had five times as long as the rest of us to figure this out.

    THIS IS NOT A TRAINING ISSUE.
    COPS HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR OVER A HUNDRED YEARS.
    THIS IS A FUNDAMENTAL FEATURE OF POLICE WORK.

    Take your heads out of the sand.

    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post

    I guess the only positive is at least he was charged. It wasn't the police or the state that exonerated him but the jury.
    Yes, more and more are being charged, but virtually all are getting off on acquittals or hung juries.

    About the only case I can think of where there was some justice was with Michael Slaeger -- and if he hadn't taken a plea deal with the Feds he probably would have gotten off completely also.

    This has to be emboldening the really bad cops even more, knowing they can literally get away with just about anything.

    Example : paralyze an elderly man by slamming him down to the ground? The cop goes through two mistrials, a third trial gets dropped before it starts -- then he gets re-hired, with full back pay. On and on.

    However, yes, years ago before body cams he wouldn't have even been charged. All we would know is "he reached for something" and that would have been it.

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    It wasn't the police or the state that exonerated him but the jury.
    Refer to the Sanford Experiment.

    especially the results.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
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  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    You are missing my point. The way they are trained is probably just a symptom of a bigger problem with the police. Why does the police see the population as enemy?
    I see your point and raise ,,one perspective.

    Why do people believe that police are necessary?? let alone acceptable.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  13. #71
    He should have exited his hotel room naked. Then the cops would not be in fear that he had a concealed weapon.
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  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Why, why, why, why, $#@!ING WHY?
    Why do people on this site still act like this is not EXACTLY THE POINT OF HAVING COPS?

    Come on guys, you've all seen the same cases as everyone else. You've all had five times as long as the rest of us to figure this out.

    THIS IS NOT A TRAINING ISSUE.
    COPS HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR OVER A HUNDRED YEARS.
    THIS IS A FUNDAMENTAL FEATURE OF POLICE WORK.

    Take your heads out of the sand.

    Officer Hancock was cleared of all wrongdoing in the incident, and a court found that he had not infringed on Davidson's constitutional rights and that the officer used 'reasonable' force
    LOL- I really didn't think this until one of my coworkers who used to be a cop matter of fact said this guy did the right thing because thats what they are trained to do because it could of been a weapon.

    There is a big difference between what people think reasonable force for a cop should be and what it is by law. Reasonable force can't be because you didn't use reason. We can't trust cops to tell the truth when they don't have any incentive to tell the truth.

    I can't believe that this is reasonable force. I think we've gone past the point of being able to trust law enforcement not to abuse the power we have given them, because power corrupts absolutely and unchecked power is tyranny.



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    He should have exited his hotel room naked. Then the cops would not be in fear that he had a concealed weapon.
    About a decade ago I never would have thought a cop could shoot an unarmed guy on his knees for pulling up his pants and get away with it. I won't put anything past some of them these days.
    ...

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Why, why, why, why, $#@!ING WHY?
    Why do people on this site still act like this is not EXACTLY THE POINT OF HAVING COPS?

    Come on guys, you've all seen the same cases as everyone else. You've all had five times as long as the rest of us to figure this out.

    THIS IS NOT A TRAINING ISSUE.
    COPS HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR OVER A HUNDRED YEARS.
    THIS IS A FUNDAMENTAL FEATURE OF POLICE WORK.

    Take your heads out of the sand.

    +MEGA REP. Doubt it will happen in my lifetime, but hopefully one day the masses will learn the difference between "security" and "law enforcement"/"police".
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
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  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    I see your point and raise ,,one perspective.

    Why do people believe that police are necessary?? let alone acceptable.
    In my experience, they can't imagine how "we" would be safe (in the broadest sense) without police supposedly "protecting" us. (even though SCOTUS has repeatedly ruled that's not actually what they're accountable for)
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    About a decade ago I never would have thought a cop could shoot an unarmed guy on his knees for pulling up his pants and get away with it. I won't put anything past some of them these days.
    And if it weren't for the ease of disseminating recorded video via the Internet, you probably still wouldn't think so.

    fisharmor is right. This ain't nothing new:
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    THIS IS NOT A TRAINING ISSUE.
    COPS HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR OVER A HUNDRED YEARS.
    THIS IS A FUNDAMENTAL FEATURE OF POLICE WORK.
    The only difference now is that the Little Dutch Boys (public officials & police, their compliant mouthpieces in the media, etc.) can no longer keep all the holes plugged up and the evidence for how things really are (and really always have been) is finally getting out from behind the dykes they've constructed to keep the true state of affairs concealed ...
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 12-08-2017 at 11:27 PM.
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  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Why, why, why, why, $#@!ING WHY?
    Why do people on this site still act like this is not EXACTLY THE POINT OF HAVING COPS?

    Come on guys, you've all seen the same cases as everyone else. You've all had five times as long as the rest of us to figure this out.

    THIS IS NOT A TRAINING ISSUE.
    COPS HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR OVER A HUNDRED YEARS.
    THIS IS A FUNDAMENTAL FEATURE OF POLICE WORK.

    Take your heads out of the sand.

    That's all well and good, but in what universe will Police be disappearing any time soon? The leftists who have been on the verge of taking over the country love their Police, and their revolutionary guard will be younger and quicker to shoot than the young cop who murdered this guy.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
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    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
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  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    About a decade ago I never would have thought a cop could shoot an unarmed guy on his knees for pulling up his pants and get away with it. I won't put anything past some of them these days.
    For me it was watching TV, TV taught me to tell cops the truth, that they were good guys that like helping people.

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    And if it weren't for the ease of disseminating recorded video via the Internet, you probably still wouldn't think so.

    fisharmor is right. This ain't nothing new:The only difference now is that the Little Dutch Boys (public officials & police, their compliant mouthpieces in the media, etc.) can no longer keep all the holes plugged up and the evidence for how things really are (and really always have been) is finally getting out from behind the dykes they've constructed to keep the true state of affairs concealed ...

    Not true. Many cops back then had no guns, just big dudes with a billy club. Even Bonnie and Clyde shot a cop pulling them over. Or at least not drawing on them. And other gangsters of that era shooting police.
    Last edited by Danke; 12-09-2017 at 01:16 AM.
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  23. #80
    Times have definitely changed. There have always been some crooked cops, but most police used to treat the people they serve with respect. I remember when police only had a handgun and a shotgun, and the shotgun was kept locked up. I remember when they knocked on doors and announced that they got a call for such and such reason, and discussed the situation. The way police relate with people has completely changed. It hasn't always been this way. It starts with hiring people who are on a power trip, and then training them like soldiers. The people in their communities, criminals included, are not the "enemy". The community is not a war zone, you just don't treat the people you are charged with protecting like enemy soldiers. The police become more aggressive and people lose respect for them and feel threatened by them, and in return the police become even more aggressive. This military training HAS to stop. They need to be learning how to deescalate a situation rather than escalating it with no knock warrants, screaming, ridiculous commands, and pointing weapons at people. Most importantly, they need psychological profiling for officers. White knight, power tripping cowards should not be in law enforcement. That man's life had ZERO value to that cop. There was no reason to fire like that other than being too fearful to be in that passion, or just wanting to kill someone. If say both. It is really upsetting to me that he won't spend the rest of his life behind bars, or at least a good portion of it.

    I can't imagine just having a good time, and all of a sudden someone is screaming at you to come out on your hands and knees, and you come out to see a bunch of guys dressed like military, aiming assault rifles at you. I can only imagine how shocked, confused, and scared he was, knowing he had not done anything and having this just happen out of nowhere. The police should've said why they were there. It's no wonder he couldn't follow their commands in such a state of mind. Not following commands should never be punishable by death. This makes me so sick. I actually stayed at that hotel before on the same floor. Had I been there that day, and they got the wrong room, it very well could've been me dead. I've been searched by the police before when I hadn't done anything. I was pretty confused and agitated, and I put my hands down after they had told me to put them up, while they were still searching me. I realized my mistake and put them back up right away, but I was lucky I wasn't dealing with a pos cop like this guy. When you haven't done anything wrong and you know you're not a threat, it's easy to slip up like that and forget what it looks like to them. They have to be aware of that, and not be so quick to pull the trigger. He had plenty of time to see if there was a gun before firing. Hell, he shouldn't have even been in that situation. Knock on the damn door, and announce yourself and why you're there in a way that doesn't create a situation where none exists. Even the way they did it, just go over and cuff him when he puts his hands on his head. There's no reason to have him crawl except to create another possibility for escalation. Everything about this response was designed to make sure that something bad would happen.



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  25. #81
    According to his job application, the LEO was a high school graduate, LDS missionary for 2 years in Quito, Ecuador and a HVAC technician at http://www.ontariorefrigeration.com/ - https://www.scribd.com/doc/306328500...mployment-File

    One of his goals was to perform at least 1 arrest per day.
    Last edited by timosman; 12-09-2017 at 01:51 PM.

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    According to his job application, the LE was a high school graduate, LDS missionary for 2 years in Quito, Ecuador and a HVAC technician at http://www.ontariorefrigeration.com/ - https://www.scribd.com/doc/306328500...mployment-File

    One of his goals was to perform at least 1 arrest per day.
    Nice goal. "Forget improving the community, let's see how many lives I can destroy". Dirtbag. I bet he got beat up a lot in high school.

  27. #83
    Would this have been murder had a citizen or local militia been making a citizen arrest against an officer they had reason to believe had done wrong?

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Jury sees body-cam video of Mesa officer shooting unarmed man - https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...man/803368001/

    You can show the video of a cop raping a 4 year old and they will get off because they "feared for their lives"...
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  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Why, why, why, why, $#@!ING WHY?
    Why do people on this site still act like this is not EXACTLY THE POINT OF HAVING COPS?

    Come on guys, you've all seen the same cases as everyone else. You've all had five times as long as the rest of us to figure this out.

    THIS IS NOT A TRAINING ISSUE.
    COPS HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR OVER A HUNDRED YEARS.
    THIS IS A FUNDAMENTAL FEATURE OF POLICE WORK.

    Take your heads out of the sand.

    Goons gonna goon...
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

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    Use an internet archive site like
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  30. #86
    Jan2017
    Member

    This is about the worst of these I have ever seen posted . . .
    the victim was in a very difficult compliance to all orders, watching from 15:00 or so on -
    he's crawling toward them with the keeping of feet crossed
    being warned he would be shot . . .

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    This is about the worst of these I have ever seen posted . . .
    the victim was in a very difficult compliance to all orders, watching from 15:00 or so on -
    he's crawling toward them with the keeping of feet crossed
    being warned he would be shot . . .
    I think there was a bodycam video of the cops killing Jeremy Mardis (the six year old autistic boy in Lousiania).

    I recall not being able to watch that.

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Officer Hancock was cleared of all wrongdoing in the incident, and a court found that he had not infringed on Davidson's constitutional rights and that the officer used 'reasonable' force
    LOL- I really didn't think this until one of my coworkers who used to be a cop matter of fact said this guy did the right thing because thats what they are trained to do because it could of been a weapon.
    What I would like to ask anyone who says that is the following:

    Suppose that man on the ground (the victim) did have a gun and did manage to draw it and shoot and kill the aggressor standing before him pointing a gun at him and threatening to kill him unjustly. Would that not have been fully justifiable as an act of self-defense?

    I know, of course, that police apologists will say no. But they should be pressed to go on record proclaiming their belief that cops are immune to the moral standards that govern the rest of us.



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  34. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    He should have exited his hotel room naked. Then the cops would not be in fear that he had a concealed weapon.
    Had he done that he would have certainly been charged with a sex/exposure crime.

  35. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    And if it weren't for the ease of disseminating recorded video via the Internet, you probably still wouldn't think so.
    I am not that naive my friend. I said I didn't think that would happen and someone would get away with it. My mother told me from my earliest age that following orders is not an excuse to do evil. I've always been aware that men with uniforms and badges under lawful missions from government, by far, committed the worst atrocities.

    My naivety was mostly my trust in my fellow countrymen. I was in 7th grade in the year 1984. People said proudly Orwell's vision would never occur because we'd rise up. People who suggested papers/ID checkpoints and the like were in our future were called kooks, because we would stand up to tyranny. I believed that. I even naively joined the Marines at 18 years of age to defend my country's freedom.

    Now a lot of what the kooks predicted is here and very few even bats an eye. When people "thank" me for my "service." I tell them I wasted that time of my life. The only people rising up are those offended at someone with the audacity to assume that someone with a penis is a "he."

    That man's death is not a wake up call, it is rather a promise of what is to come if people stay asleep. That ending of crying on his knees, begging for his life as he complies and pulls up his pants is not a tragedy, it is simply a statistic in Soviet Amerika.
    Last edited by RJB; 12-09-2017 at 12:44 PM.
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