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Thread: Anarchy Works!

  1. #1

    Exclamation Anarchy Works!

    Anarchy Works!

    http://ericpetersautos.com/2016/01/23/anarchy-works/

    by eric • January 23, 2016

    “Anarchy” is one of those words that many people react to emotionally – having been conditioned to do so.

    The word has become generally synonymous with chaos and disorder.

    Dog eat dog.

    As EPautos’ king troll (Clover; see here for more about him) puts it, anarchy means “do whatever the hell you like.”

    Well, no.

    Anarchy, strictly defined, means simply the absence of government.

    It does not mean people won’t – much less can’t – govern themselves.

    The fact is most people do exactly that.

    And they do it without government.

    Already.

    Do you need government – its threats and laws – to keep you from taking a ball peen hammer to your neighbor’s head? Would you transform, like Wolfman, into a run-amok creature “doing whatever the hell you like” if Congress, the president and every federal and state bureaucrat got Jesus Hoovered into the sky tomorrow?

    Probably not.

    Well, you might do many things currently not legal.

    There are many possibilities – given that almost everything is currently illegal unless done precisely the way the government demands it be done.

    But it’s not likely you’d become a murderer or a thief, even if government disappeared tomorrow. Because you – like most people – are capable of self-government. Have no desire to hurt others and so try to avoid doing so, law or no law.

    Which is what anarchy’s all about.

    It does not mean the absence of rules or order.

    It certainly does not mean chaos.

    That is merely the bogeyman presented by those hoping to delegitimize opposition to top-down control of every last detail of our lives by remote, centralized authority. It’s not unlike the scarecrow in Wizard of Oz. He did not need the Wizard to give him a brain; he already had one.

    Similarly, people are capable of self-government without needing government.

    Do you behave a certain way when you are a guest in someone’s home? Do you behave that way because of government? Or because you self-govern?

    Consider your interactions with neighbors and friends and co-workers. Are you only behaving decently because you dread “the law”?

    Would you rip-off your customers if there were no law that said otherwise? Beat your children? “Do whatever the hell you liked”… regardless of consequences, no matter who you hurt?

    Of course not.

    Because like most people, you are probably not a narcissist or a sociopath or a psychopath. Such people are, according to academic studies of the matter, always a small minority of the general population. You will, however, encounter them regularly in government, which attracts defective people afflicted by the sick desire to lord it over others.

    Which brings up an interesting point.

    The critic of anarchism argues that people not under the yoke of a government will “do whatever the hell they like.” That is, they will not practice self-government. But who comprises the government? People! The same people (one assumes, unless we are talking about a new species) who are, according to the critic, prone to “doing whatever the hell they like.” Only now, these people are organized into a mighty gang – armed and anointed with the legal authority to “do whatever the hell they like.”

    Which of course they tend to do.

    Exponentially.

    Narcissism and sociopathy plus power usually results in big problems. The Holocaust or the Killing Fields or the Trail of Tears or the Iron Curtain… vs. the small problems that inevitably occur between individuals.

    Which would you rather have?

    Most of us manage pretty well without being managed.

    If you’re married, probably no one forced you. No laws required it. You and your spouse agreed to it. Made a commitment, together. Consent was actually asked – and freely given.

    You chose the place where you wanted to live, bought the house you liked from other people who built it without anyone holding a gun to their head (setting aside the codes and other at-gunpoint dictates of the government; the thing itself was done freely).

    You decided to have children – or not.

    You do not need government to coercively organize and manage and mediate your social circle, either. You have friends because you – and they – want (and choose) to be friends. It happens organically. As would – and could – other social and economic interactions.

    You choose your line of work, you elect to go for a walk, pursue this interest or that hobby. Whether you’ll own a car or learn to fly an airplane or take the bus.

    A million different things.

    But these choices are individual and personal and so variable. They are not predictable by a central authority, do not happen in a controlled and ordered fashion.

    Collectively.

    Everyone marching in step (the Germans had a word for this, gleichschaltung) according to the “plans” of powerful individuals, who see themselves as the managers of society, of the lives of other people. Whose “plans” take precedence over your right to be left out of them.

    This is the meaning of government … as distinct from self-government… that is, anarchy.

    We rule ourselves, according to the Golden Rule.

    Or, we are ruled by others – according to the rules they decree.

    Which do you prefer?

    Anarchy does not mean the absence of problems. It means the de-collectivization of them. Whatever problems may occur between and among individuals, they are necessarily small-scale. The individual stands a chance.

    When the individual is faced with government, he stands no chance. The outcome is preordained, in favor of the government.

    You and your neighbor have a disagreement. He may be a jerk – but it’s just him and so you (and other neighbors) have a reasonable chance of working things out satisfactorily. But what happens when your jerk neighbor has an army (and “the law”) backing him up?

    You have no real choice but to back down.

    To submit and obey.

    This is the order admired by people who get their backs up when anarchy is mentioned.

    They want you to do as ordered.

    As they order.

    They abhor discretion, individual judgment. The very idea of a free man, as that was once understood, absolutely appalls them. They view themselves as masters – and to be a master, there must be slaves. The degree of bondage isn’t the relevant consideration. A “house slave” was no less a slave than a “field slave.” Neither was free. Both were owned.

    And so are we.

    The fact that most of us own cars, a house, have some discretion as to the type of car (and house) and the “spending money” we’re allowed to use – according to certain conditions – in no way changes the fundamental fact that we are owned because we are controlled.

    Because we are governed.

    And that is why “anarchy” must never be carefully examined.

    People might get ideas.

    The wrong ones… from a certain point-of-view.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee



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  3. #2
    What about the roads?


    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Peters View Post

    The critic of anarchism argues that people not under the yoke of a government will “do whatever the hell they like.” That is, they will not practice self-government. But who comprises the government? People! The same people (one assumes, unless we are talking about a new species) who are, according to the critic, prone to “doing whatever the hell they like.” Only now, these people are organized into a mighty gang – armed and anointed with the legal authority to “do whatever the hell they like.” .
    Made me think of this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  4. #3
    I asked a prog acquaintance once if he would use a car seat for his kid if the government didn't mandate it. He said he probably wouldn't and was glad government required it.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  5. #4
    +Rep for the OP.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    +Rep for the OP.
    +Rep from me to OP as well-Thought Criminal though he may be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  7. #6
    Hmm. I would have to be responsible for my own choices?

    I'll pass. Thx.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  8. #7
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

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    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  9. #8
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.



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  11. #9
    it’s not likely you’d become a murderer or a thief, even if government disappeared tomorrow.

    Because you – like most people – are capable of self-government. Have no desire to hurt others and so try to avoid doing so, law or no law.
    Most people aren't thieves or murderers now.

    Government exists now.

    Therefore, obviously, the fact that most people aren't murderers and thieves does not prevent government from existing.

    For government to exist, only a tiny fraction of the population need be willing to murder and steal.

    Police and military in the US number only ~3.3 million, or 1% of the total population (most of whom aren't even involved in domestic law enforcement).

    This is more than sufficient to maintain the power of the US government (i.e. to coerce people into paying taxes, obeying regulations, etc).

    The fact that most of the remaining 99% aren't thieves or murderers is irrelevant.

    The critic of anarchism argues that people not under the yoke of a government will “do whatever the hell they like.” That is, they will not practice self-government. But who comprises the government? People! The same people (one assumes, unless we are talking about a new species) who are, according to the critic, prone to “doing whatever the hell they like.” Only now, these people are organized into a mighty gang – armed and anointed with the legal authority to “do whatever the hell they like.”
    Well, that's not my criticism of anarchy.

    My criticism is not that anarchy wouldn't be good, it's that it wouldn't be possible in the first place.

    If the state were magically abolished today, the aforementioned small fraction of the population who have no qualms about theft and murder would rapidly reestablish it.

    The time period between abolition of the state and its reemergence would look like anarchy in the pejorative sense (civil war, as different groups fight over who will rule).

    An anarcho-capitalist society, with peaceful competition between security providers, etc will never exist among human beings.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 01-23-2016 at 02:15 PM.

  12. #10
    Beat me to it.



    Alas...

    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  13. #11

    Anarchy is Arbitrary!

    Anarchists need to properly define and explain what they mean by "government" because there are many types of government, whether it's self-government, family government, church government, or civil (magisterial) government. And even under the category of civil government, there can be many kinds of it, depending on its intended jurisdiction by a community: municipal, county, state, national, or global.

    So, do anarchists want to abolish all types and kinds of government, or do they just seek the extinction of one type or kind of government?
    "Then David said to the Philistine, 'You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of Yahweh of hosts, the God of the battle lines of Israel, Whom you have reproached.'" - 1 Samuel 17:45

    "May future generations look back on our work and say that these were men and women who, in moment of great crisis, stood up to their politicians, the opinion-makers, and the Establishment, and saved their country." - Dr. Ron Paul

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post

    If the state were magically abolished today, the aforementioned small fraction of the population who have no qualms about theft and murder would rapidly reestablish it.
    No. Theft and murder are committed every day. These areas already exist. In the heart of the most enforced cities in America.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    Anarchists need to properly define and explain what they mean by "government" because there are many types of government, whether it's self-government, family government, church government, or civil (magisterial) government. And even under the category of civil government, there can be many kinds of it, depending on its intended jurisdiction by a community: municipal, county, state, national, or global.

    So, do anarchists want to abolish all types and kinds of government, or do they just seek the extinction of one type or kind of government?
    It's already been explained. It is self-government.

  16. #14

    It's Still Unclear

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    It's already been explained. It is self-government.
    The OP defined that anarchy is "the absence of government." So, to my previous post, which types or kinds of government should be absent in order for self-government to thrive? I'm also going to forgo the obvious false dichotomy which is inherent in the appeal to the exclusivity of self-government, for the moment.
    "Then David said to the Philistine, 'You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of Yahweh of hosts, the God of the battle lines of Israel, Whom you have reproached.'" - 1 Samuel 17:45

    "May future generations look back on our work and say that these were men and women who, in moment of great crisis, stood up to their politicians, the opinion-makers, and the Establishment, and saved their country." - Dr. Ron Paul

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    So, do anarchists want to abolish all types and kinds of government, or do they just seek the extinction of one type or kind of government?
    Self governance.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    The OP defined that anarchy is "the absence of government." So, to my previous post, which types or kinds of government should be absent in order for self-government to thrive? I'm also going to forgo the obvious false dichotomy which is inherent in the appeal to the exclusivity of self-government, for the moment.
    Government by others.

    As the article mentions, most of us self govern anyway.

    When you drive, do you not cross into oncoming traffic because you don't want a fine or because you don't want to wreck?

  21. #18

    Be More Specific

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Self governance.
    That doesn't answer my question, though.
    "Then David said to the Philistine, 'You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of Yahweh of hosts, the God of the battle lines of Israel, Whom you have reproached.'" - 1 Samuel 17:45

    "May future generations look back on our work and say that these were men and women who, in moment of great crisis, stood up to their politicians, the opinion-makers, and the Establishment, and saved their country." - Dr. Ron Paul

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0
    If the state were magically abolished today, the aforementioned small fraction of the population who have no qualms about theft and murder would rapidly reestablish it.
    No. Theft and murder are committed every day. These areas already exist. In the heart of the most enforced cities in America.
    Yes, theft and murder happen every day in the US..

    What does that have to do with my statement?

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Yes, theft and murder happen every day in the US..

    What does that have to do with my statement?
    Sorry. I misinterpreted your statement. I see what you were conveying now. Mea culpa.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Sorry. I misinterpreted your statement. I see what you were conveying now. Mea culpa.
    No problem

  25. #22

    One Must Govern Oneself Before Governing Others, But...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Government by others.

    As the article mentions, most of us self govern anyway.

    When you drive, do you not cross into oncoming traffic because you don't want a fine or because you don't want to wreck?
    I agree that self-government is important, but you can also have other types/kinds of government (such as civil government) without abandoning self-government. In fact, you need self-government, first, in order for other types of government to succeed in society. That doesn't make those other forms of government illegitimate.
    "Then David said to the Philistine, 'You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of Yahweh of hosts, the God of the battle lines of Israel, Whom you have reproached.'" - 1 Samuel 17:45

    "May future generations look back on our work and say that these were men and women who, in moment of great crisis, stood up to their politicians, the opinion-makers, and the Establishment, and saved their country." - Dr. Ron Paul

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    The OP defined that anarchy is "the absence of government." So, to my previous post, which types or kinds of government should be absent in order for self-government to thrive? I'm also going to forgo the obvious false dichotomy which is inherent in the appeal to the exclusivity of self-government, for the moment.
    Anything larger than self. So go ahead with your "false-dichotomy" argument and let's get it out of the way.

  27. #24



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    If the state were magically abolished today, the aforementioned small fraction of the population who have no qualms about theft and murder would rapidly reestablish it.

    An anarcho-capitalist society, with peaceful competition between security providers, etc will never exist among human beings.
    So, we are to accept being ruled by thieves and murderers, forever?

  30. #26
    stoopid double posts

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    I agree that self-government is important, but you can also have other types/kinds of government (such as civil government) without abandoning self-government. In fact, you need self-government, first, in order for other types of government to succeed in society. That doesn't make those other forms of government illegitimate.
    What metric would you use to establish legitimacy?

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    Anarchists need to properly define and explain what they mean by "government" because there are many types of government, whether it's self-government, family government, church government, or civil (magisterial) government. And even under the category of civil government, there can be many kinds of it, depending on its intended jurisdiction by a community: municipal, county, state, national, or global.

    So, do anarchists want to abolish all types and kinds of government, or do they just seek the extinction of one type or kind of government?
    I disapprove of the term 'government' here and always have. Mankind will always be governed and that is not a bad thing, and if you screw anarchists to the floor on that they will all agree with that statement.

    The thing is to look at the word anarchy. 'A' meaning not or no, and 'archon', which means ruler, but it means FIRST ruler or primary ruler.

    Anarchists literally want there not to be a monopoly on rule. For there to be a market in ruling, competition in that market, and therefore, a fundamental tendency to pay attention to how people want this service provided, which tendency is completely absent from the current monopoly model.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    Anarchists need to properly define and explain what they mean by "government" because there are many types of government, whether it's self-government, family government, church government, or civil (magisterial) government. And even under the category of civil government, there can be many kinds of it, depending on its intended jurisdiction by a community: municipal, county, state, national, or global.

    So, do anarchists want to abolish all types and kinds of government, or do they just seek the extinction of one type or kind of government?
    The burden of proof is on the "archist". He is the one making a positive claim (that a State should exist).
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  34. #30
    It behooves us to remember that men can never escape being governed. Either they must govern themselves or they must submit to being governed by others. If from lawlessness or fickleness, from folly or self-indulgence, they refuse to govern themselves, then most assuredly in the end they will have to be governed from the outside. Teddy Roosevelt.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

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